Warmage and Rainbow Servant and other ideas

[Crake]

So I've lost yet another character in my greyhawk game, and I'm thinking ideas for a new character.

My character will enter in at level 10 and I rolled 18,16,16,15,15,10 for my stats. The party has 3 melee and 2 divine casters, so I'm pretty much shunted into the arcane caster role, which I don't REALLY mind.

We currently have:
Cleric 3/Church inquisitor 8
Paladin 6/Fist of Raizel 3/Knight of the Chalice 2
Druid 9/Custom Summon PrC 2
Ranger/Warshaper Werebear
Fighter/Rogue/Reaping Mauler

The werebear has a bard cohort, the cleric has a dragon cohort and the druid has a couatl animal companion (dm fiat, dont ask)

So I was thinking Warmage into Rainbow servant. I'm *not* entirely sure but would the fact that the warmage gets spontaneous access to all the spells on his spell list mean that once I hit rainbow servant 10 I would be able to spontaneously cast any cleric spells?

I was also thinking a psion of some kind, since my DM runs magic/psionic opacity, so powers get past SR, which i've been having some problem with as a wizard. I wanted to go an egoist for metamorphosis, but my DM only lets me polymorph/metamorphosis into creatures my character has encountered in game, so a fresh character would pretty much be restricted to animals only.

Speaking of which, I've played 3 wizards so far, and I've not really been feeling it. Spells are pretty much restricted to PHB only for me as a wizard, so SR has been a bit of a problem. Unless someone has a really compelling argument, I'd probably be averse to playing a wizard due to spell access. We barely find any scrolls, and "named" spells are restricted access to even buying them, so I feel like it's too much effort.

Feel free to throw any caster-y ideas around, pretty much any official book is ok, although it needs to be Okayed by my DM if it's not phb.

[Aegis013]

Warmage into Rainbow Servant does give you spontaneous casting of any Cleric spell. It's often referred to as the Rainbow Warsnake.

If you want to pursue that option, be sure to ask the DM if the Rainbow Servant's text trumps its table in the game. The text says the Rainbow Servant gives full (10/10, according to the "Spells per Day/Spells Known:" entry in the PrC on pg. 55 of Complete Divine) casting progression, but the table says 6/10 casting progression.

If you're allowed flaws (Unearthed Arcana pg. 91), you can take Heighten Spell, Earth Sense (Races of Stone), and Earth Spell (Races of Stone), in conjunction with Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon - as your human or strongheart halfling bonus feat) and stick 4 points into Knowledge Arcana to qualify for Rainbow Servant at level 2.

So you'd start the game as a Warmage 1/Rainbow Servant 9 and become the Rainbow Warsnake on your next level.

Though it's a bit of a cheesy option, so your DM may not be ok with all of that.

Edit: If your DM rules that the table trumps the text (which isn't technically RAW, but your DM could still rule it that way) then this option loses a lot of power.

[Crake]

Warmage into Rainbow Servant does give you spontaneous casting of any Cleric spell. It's often referred to as the Rainbow Warsnake.

If you want to pursue that option, be sure to ask the DM if the Rainbow Servant's text trumps its table in the game. The text says the Rainbow Servant gives full (10/10, according to the "Spells per Day/Spells Known:" entry in the PrC on pg. 55 of Complete Divine) casting progression, but the table says 6/10 casting progression.

If you're allowed flaws (Unearthed Arcana pg. 91), you can take Heighten Spell, Earth Sense (Races of Stone), and Earth Spell (Races of Stone), in conjunction with Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon - as your human or strongheart halfling bonus feat) and stick 4 points into Knowledge Arcana to qualify for Rainbow Servant at level 2.

So you'd start the game as a Warmage 1/Rainbow Servant 9 and become the Rainbow Warsnake on your next level.

Though it's a bit of a cheesy option, so your DM may not be ok with all of that.

Edit: If your DM rules that the table trumps the text (which isn't technically RAW, but your DM could still rule it that way) then this option loses a lot of power.

As amazing and hilarious as that early entry sounds, I SERIOUSLY doubt my DM would Okay it, also does a level 1 warmage actually know any [Earth] spells?

Edit: Apparently they do, nice. But still, I really doubt my DM would allow it. I remember talking to him about versatile spellcaster, and he was pretty set on his idea that it wouldnt let you cast spells above that which you normally could cast, despite me reading somewhere that WotC said you specifically could use it to cast metamagiced feats above your max spell level.

[Aegis013]

As amazing and hilarious as that early entry sounds, I SERIOUSLY doubt my DM would Okay it, also does a level 1 warmage actually know any [Earth] spells?

Edit: Apparently they do, nice. But still, I really doubt my DM would allow it. I remember talking to him about versatile spellcaster, and he was pretty set on his idea that it wouldnt let you cast spells above that which you normally could cast, despite me reading somewhere that WotC said you specifically could use it to cast metamagiced feats above your max spell level.

You can, by RAW, use it to go over the spell level limit cap for metamagics and stuff, and you don't actually need to know any [Earth] descriptor spells, Earth Sense only requires Con 13 and Wis 13, and Earth Spell only requires Con 13, Wis 13, Earth Sense and Heighten Spell, and doesn't work on spells with [Fire], [Air], or [Water] descriptors, but it works on anything else, including Magic Missile.

[Crake]

You can, by RAW, use it to go over the spell level limit cap for metamagics and stuff, and you don't actually need to know any [Earth] descriptor spells, Earth Sense only requires Con 13 and Wis 13, and Earth Spell only requires Con 13, Wis 13, Earth Sense and Heighten Spell, and doesn't work on spells with [Fire], [Air], or [Water] descriptors, but it works on anything else, including Magic Missile.

Huh, you're right wrt not needing [Earth] spells, I missed that, and yeah, I realize that versatile spellcaster should technically let you cast above your max level, but my DM is rather convinced otherwise.

That said, it's quite possible he might just nope the whole idea on the premise of spontaneous cleric spellcasting (he noped elven generalist wizard because it was strictly better than a regular generalist wizard, so it's quite possible he might do the same here) So lets have a look at other options available

[wayfare]

If SR has been a problem, Egoist isn't a bad idea . At this point, you're only losing out on advanced applications of metamorphosis, and at your level you are sure to meet some sweet enemies fairly soon.

Shaper is also a decent way around SR/PR (if it comes up), because it creates physical objects that damage the enemy.

[Crake]

If SR has been a problem, Egoist isn't a bad idea . At this point, you're only losing out on advanced applications of metamorphosis, and at your level you are sure to meet some sweet enemies fairly soon.

Shaper is also a decent way around SR/PR (if it comes up), because it creates physical objects that damage the enemy.

As a sidenote, I'm considering going a drow if I can get the LA bought off (I died at level 11, 3k xp in, so the cost of buying off drow LA would be 13k, so maybe I can convince my DM to let me start with +2 LA bought off rather than just throwing me in with a level lost) so the Minor Shapechange ACF of egoist would be REALLY helpful with that.

[Callin]

If SR is a problem and you are mostly restricted to the PHB then why go caster at all?

[Crake]

If SR is a problem and you are mostly restricted to the PHB then why go caster at all?

Its more that as a wizard specifically I'm restricted to PHB. I'm only allowed to learn PHB spells at level-up, and the mages guild I hang out at dont have many non PHB spells in them. On the other hand, If I go warmage or Sorcerer, I should have access to whatever spells I have (warmage) or wanted (Sorcerer), subject to DM approval.

Getting spells outside of core as a wizard isn't impossible, it's just highly impractical, since it requires researching (week+1000gp per spell level as per DMG) which we just don't have time for in game.

[Callin]

Aight that makes sense.

[Waker]

Perhaps I've missed it mentioned, but what kind of character do you actually want to play? Did you want to focus on blasting, having an answer for everything, buffing the party up or something else entirely? Going Warmage into Rainbow Servant does make you rather effective, but so could Beguiler taking the prc. If you wanted to play a shapeshifter I would say Wildshape Ranger/MoMF or Changeling acf Wizard/Master Transmuter.

[Crake]

Perhaps I've missed it mentioned, but what kind of character do you actually want to play? Did you want to focus on blasting, having an answer for everything, buffing the party up or something else entirely? Going Warmage into Rainbow Servant does make you rather effective, but so could Beguiler taking the prc. If you wanted to play a shapeshifter I would say Wildshape Ranger/MoMF or Changeling acf Wizard/Master Transmuter.

Actually, I've been wanting to make a wildshape ranger/MoMF for a long while now, but I don't think the party needs yet another melee, and any sort of utility forms that I would use from MoMF I'd need to stumble upon first before I could turn into it. I like the idea of playing a shapeshifter, but I think it's just overlapping too much with the rest of the party. I was considering egoist because it can shapeshift but also at the same time provide a measure of heals that our party kinda needs at this point (the fighter/rogue/reaping mauler was our previous heals).

Also I'm fairly sure my DM would nope changelings on the basis that they're from eberron, so :smallfrown:

Edit: Ok, it looks like my DM is noping rainbow warsnake, and apparently we're coming up against illithid soon, so he's strongly suggesting against going a psion, so I'm back to the drawing board

[Nightfire]

What's worse?
That the GM reads these forums or that the GM is aware of this thread?

[Crake]

What's worse?
That the GM reads these forums or that the GM is aware of this thread?

Neither, because I keep my forum posts clean of badmouthing :smalltongue:

[Grim Reader]

Actually, I've been wanting to make a wildshape ranger/MoMF for a long while now, but I don't think the party needs yet another melee, and any sort of utility forms that I would use from MoMF I'd need to stumble upon first before I could turn into it. I like the idea of playing a shapeshifter, but I think it's just overlapping too much with the rest of the party. I was considering egoist because it can shapeshift but also at the same time provide a measure of heals that our party kinda needs at this point (the fighter/rogue/reaping mauler was our previous heals).

Also I'm fairly sure my DM would nope changelings on the basis that they're from eberron, so :smallfrown:

Edit: Ok, it looks like my DM is noping rainbow warsnake, and apparently we're coming up against illithid soon, so he's strongly suggesting against going a psion, so I'm back to the drawing board

You can put wildshape on top of any character with OAs Shapeshifter. Relevant requirements are some kind of formchanging ability, and 10 ranks in Concentration. But there are ways to get those, and you could have a Wildshaping Rogue, or any other class really. From there MoMF or Warshaper.

[Kane0]

If you have to be a caster and are having trouble with SR, try a mailman build if possible. Orb spells on a warmage or sorc should do the trick without overdoing the cheese.

And if all else fails and both arcane and psionic options are a bust just roll what you really wanna play and tell everyone to deal with it. :smallcool:
Cause if your not playing a character you want to play and not enjoying what you are playing, whats the point?

[Crake]

If you have to be a caster and are having trouble with SR, try a mailman build if possible. Orb spells on a warmage or sorc should do the trick without overdoing the cheese.

And if all else fails and both arcane and psionic options are a bust just roll what you really wanna play and tell everyone to deal with it. :smallcool:
Cause if your not playing a character you want to play and not enjoying what you are playing, whats the point?

Yeah, thats true.

Good news though, we may have a way of getting my old character back without too much problem. We remembered we have a NG candle of invocation, and my DM has said that a Solar angel's wish should be able to restore the half eaten statue that my old character currently is, which should let a simple break enchantment restore him!

[Waker]

I'll continue on in the assumption that your old character isn't a sure thing.

I have to ask, why do you say the party needs a healer? You've got a Cleric, Druid, Paladin and Ranger in the party. Not one of them prepares healing spells/carries wands?
If you want to play a healer who isn't one of the aforementioned classes and isn't a Healer, I'd suggest Bard/War Weaver, with perhaps a bit of Lyrical Thamauturge thrown in. Gives you fair access to buffing and healing across the group and makes quite efficient use of action economy. Party also lacks much in the way of skillmonkeying.
Archivist is fair at it, the Dark Knowledge makes buffing nice too. Check with your DM and see if he'll allow Archivist to use their Prayer Book with Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought.
Factotum/Chameleon could do it. Between Cunning Piety and Divine Spells, you could provide healing as well as everything else.

[prufock]

Actually, I've been wanting to make a wildshape ranger/MoMF for a long while now, but I don't think the party needs yet another melee, and any sort of utility forms that I would use from MoMF I'd need to stumble upon first before I could turn into it. I like the idea of playing a shapeshifter, but I think it's just overlapping too much with the rest of the party.

There is a way to do it all, but it seems like your DM is a bit restrictive on material allowed. It's a little complex.

Shapeshift Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) - gain wild shape for small and medium only, lose combat styles
combined with
Mystic Ranger (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III?pg=6) - gain better spell progression, lose animal companion, melee weapon proficiencies, shield proficiencies, and 5th favored enemy
and
Sword of the Arcane Order feat - cast wizard spells from ranger slots, requires Ranger 4th level, worship Mystra, some organization membership
for bonus point
Shooting Star substitution levels - debatable. I'm not sure how these sub levels interact with the other variants, but some people have claimed that there is no conflict.

I THINK all this works. So Ranger X/Wiz 1 gives you wildshape as a druid and spellcasting from the wizard spell list up to 5th level spells. You can get into MoMF or Warshaper by 7th if you want, but they don't progress spellcasting, so you do have to decide what's more important to you.

But I'm doubtful if your DM will approve it.

[Crake]

I'll continue on in the assumption that your old character isn't a sure thing.

I have to ask, why do you say the party needs a healer? You've got a Cleric, Druid, Paladin and Ranger in the party. Not one of them prepares healing spells/carries wands?
If you want to play a healer who isn't one of the aforementioned classes and isn't a Healer, I'd suggest Bard/War Weaver, with perhaps a bit of Lyrical Thamauturge thrown in. Gives you fair access to buffing and healing across the group and makes quite efficient use of action economy. Party also lacks much in the way of skillmonkeying.
Archivist is fair at it, the Dark Knowledge makes buffing nice too. Check with your DM and see if he'll allow Archivist to use their Prayer Book with Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought.
Factotum/Chameleon could do it. Between Cunning Piety and Divine Spells, you could provide healing as well as everything else.

The druid pretty much never prepares healing spells, and the cleric is iffy atm (dodgy stuff going on here) so I'm not sure if he spontaneously converts heals or inflicts. As for wands of cure light wounds, we had some at one point, but half the party doesn't keep good track of their items, and I think they've disappeared into the aether.

I actually considered going a factotum, as it pretty much covers everything we need as a party, but I'm playing factotum in another game, so I don't want to play a second one.

That said, looking at the party composition, skillmonkey is pretty much the only one thats not covered (aside from arcane caster, but i guess the bard with some ranks in UMD can pretty much cover that role right?) Possibly an unseen seer rogue/wizard? That would only lose out a single level of casting if I grabbed a level of rogue to get the skills as class skills and able learner to make it easy to put ranks into them? Or is there some neat way I could qualify without needing to lose any caster levels?

[Bakeru]

Also I'm fairly sure my DM would nope changelings on the basis that they're from eberron, so :smallfrown:Are races from the Monster Manuals ok? Especially Monster Manual III. If yes, open MM3 on page 24. Oh, look, a changeling, unburdened by the chains of its setting.

[Waker]

That said, looking at the party composition, skillmonkey is pretty much the only one thats not covered (aside from arcane caster, but i guess the bard with some ranks in UMD can pretty much cover that role right?) Possibly an unseen seer rogue/wizard? That would only lose out a single level of casting if I grabbed a level of rogue to get the skills as class skills and able learner to make it easy to put ranks into them? Or is there some neat way I could qualify without needing to lose any caster levels?

Bard can provide decent spellcasting through their own list, the use of magic items/UMD and through the use of PrCs that add spells to their list, such as Lyrical Thamaturge and Sublime Chord. Add in the fact that they have one of the strongest skill lists in the game and decent combat abilities and you can find a way to contribute in just about every situation.
Unseen Seer is a good PrC, but unless you are willing to delay your entry into by quite a while, you need to dip into a skillmonkey class like Rogue or Spellthief in order to get in. At most, I can only think of ways to add Hide (Domain Granted Power acf, Trickery Domain) and Sense Motive (Divination specialist variant) to a Wizard's skill list. Not sure how to get Search/Spot on. A Spellthief is a decent choice for entry into the class if you take the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel, allowing you to use your caster level to determine what level of spells that you can steal.
Alternatively if you wanted to be a less-orthodox skillmonkey/spellcaster you could consider going Anima Mage (you can even heal using Buer) or Soulcaster. Both classes would give you access to long-term buffs and boosts to your skills/abilities. Similarly you could try the Sapphire Hierarch for a competent spellcaster with skill usage and still have access to healing. Bonus points if you choose a Lawful deity with an association to necromancy (like Wee Jas), grab the necrocarnum feat and make a Necrocarnum Zombie to hang out with.

[Fyermind]

It seems like sorcerers may actually be better casters in this setting that wizards. Sure you have to pick fairly few spells, but you can pick them from anywhere. Look at Sorcerer 5 / Incantrix 5. Look at it again. You will have many spells and all of them spontaneously. You will have strong metamagic options. etc.

[Crake]

It seems like sorcerers may actually be better casters in this setting that wizards. Sure you have to pick fairly few spells, but you can pick them from anywhere. Look at Sorcerer 5 / Incantrix 5. Look at it again. You will have many spells and all of them spontaneously. You will have strong metamagic options. etc.

Sad to say my DM pretty much always nopes campaign specific stuff since we're not playing in those settings.