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Dire Panda
2013-05-08, 12:22 AM
What do the veteran gamers of the playground think of this little rules overhaul?

I have a problem with magic item creation in 3.5: it not only drives a further wedge between casters and mundanes, but it ironically can suck the "magic" out of the game. Ever played in a campaign where Bob the Poorly Roleplayed Wizard can disappear into his tower between adventures, spend a few thousand gp on unspecified ingredients, and walk out just before the next session with a gnarlier sword than the one with the epic backstory we just spent three games questing for? (And don't get me started on 'magic marts')

The better DMs can sometimes turn this sort of thing into an adventure hook ("You need a manticore's gallbladder to make the item, and as luck would have it there's one terrorizing a nearby village"), but lately I've been thinking about how to completely overhaul the system of item creation to involve the whole party and keep some of the flavor/mystery of magic items.

The solution I hit upon is this: Magic isn't something you can force into an object. The best a caster can do is prepare an item to absorb specific magic that it's exposed to, but then it's up to the party to get the item into the proper situation, and results can often be unpredictable. More powerful casters can squeeze more specific results out of the process, but there always has to be a triggering event beyond simply "I have a feat and some spare gold."

Example: Let's say the party fighter wants a sword that deals elemental damage. The wizard rubs various alchemical compounds over it, utters some incantations, and gives it back to the fighter. It's not quite magical yet, but the potential is there. If the fighter survives getting struck by lightning on a subsequent adventure, the next time he reaches for his sword he might find it's become a +1 shock weapon. Or if he manages to drive that sword into the heart of a red dragon, it could emerge as a flaming burst sword. Had he tried that with an ordinary blade, there might be some small chance that the dragonsblood would have gifted it with minor magic, but the wizard's preparations allowed it to better absorb what it was exposed to.

Of course, part of the fun is the unpredictability; items could absorb the wrong thing and backfire badly. A young nobleman, sent to the front lines to lead the charge against an orcish horde, is presented with a sword enchanted to absorb hatred; the mage who made it fully expects it to become an orc bane weapon when it is wielded against the kingdom's ancient enemies. But the nobleman is ambushed by a mob of peasants rebelling against his father's tyrannical rule, and when he draws it to defend himself he finds that it has become a cursed backbiter. Or the elemental sword, above, might never cool down from the forge's heat, remaining red-hot, soft, and useless.

On rare occasions, an item might become enchanted without preparations. A cloth sack that sits at the bottom of a guild's spell component dump might become a Bag of Unwanted Items with the power to produce a random piece of trash once per hour; a child's stuffed toy that watched its owner murdered by a madman might retain an imprint of his terror and have the power to release it into others' minds (single-use Cause Fear?).

Tying items' powers to character actions will hopefully make the PCs' equipment feel more like an organic part of their characters, while the preparations allow them to retain some degree of customization. And there's no reason the process can't be repeated; if you want your +2 breastplate to become a +3, you'd better accomplish some more heroic deeds while wearing it. Another nice result is that artifacts and legendary items emerge naturally from the setting - the axe that's been wielded by fifty generations of barbarian chieftains is probably a +6 vorpal weapon after severing its ten thousandth head.

Now for the sticking point - translating these ideas into actual rules. Preparing an item to absorb magic should be cheaper than the traditional method - maybe an eighth to a quarter of the market price, depending on how extensive the preparations are? My first idea is to classify existing magic items into "archetypes", each corresponding to some kind of triggering event. When the event happens, I'd roll on a table of possible resulting items for the base item and archetype, using the CR of the event and the CL of the spellcaster who prepared it as modifiers to the roll. If it falls below a certain threshold, the item doesn't get enchanted this time. Items which already have magic properties receive proportionate penalties on this roll. And of course if the event has some plot significance I'll tack on an additional modifier. Depending on the event, I might also make the caster roll a Spellcraft check to see if some subtle curse creeps in.

Of course, if any of you have better or more concrete ideas - or feedback on the concept itself - I'd love to hear them. Has anyone used a system like this in the past? How'd it work out?

Arundel
2013-05-08, 12:33 AM
First off, this is probably best in the homebrew forums.

Secondly, I always am leery of a houserule that effectively makes a large part of the game more DM fiat than standard. Most of my best memories of games have come from doing something unexpected that threw the DM and/or the other players of.

Third, I feel like this is going to hurt mundanes way more that casters. We don't have a lot of specifics so its hard to pin it down to facts, but are we also requiring that transcribing a fireball spell into a spellbook requires dragon blood? Do we need to scribe Time Stop in chronotitan sweat?

Regitnui
2013-05-08, 01:25 AM
This could be a good idea, but for a massively powerful item. I recall the ultimate weapons in FFX: Useless when you picked them up, but after going through a Guide Dang It number of steps you end up with the best weapons in the game for the characters.

I'd picture a fighter picking up a longsword, and over the course of the next couple of quests, it turns into a unique Wondrous Item. Like the OP's example, the fighter picks up a sword in the starting dungeon. After killing a druid's familiar at the end of that dungeon, the sword absorbs a little magic. Then on the next quest he banishes a fire elemental. Then he takes it into an underwater cave. Finally, when an enemy tries to sunder it, the weapon becomes a +2 flaming adamantine longsword (No idea how wondrous that actually is.)

Or a rogue keeps a dagger for years worth of playtime (level 1-epic) and eventually it starts talking back to him; the dagger is now an intelligent magical item.

So good idea, just not a good replacement for crafting.

questionmark693
2013-05-08, 02:48 AM
I agree that this just hurts mundane more. They already have to rely on magic items...why make it harder for them? This system might somehow work if the fighter could do it himself, but unless the magic users also get similar restrictions on learning spells and such...it just unbalances it even more.

Der_DWSage
2013-05-08, 03:40 AM
While I agree with others, I have to say-this is a nice idea. While it does suck a bit for the Fighter that was hoping to get an Orcbane weapon rather than the Throwing property he got...that really comes down to DM fiat. And there's nothing saying it can't be enchanted further. After all, a situational weapon like that can definitely be argued to be worth less than the +1 it has. I think it'd also see a growth in Intelligent weapons that seek adventure as much as their wielders do.

I'd especially like to see this go along with the flavor of the...blast, memory fails me. The 'get exposed to certain spells and get the following benefits' feats from the Complete Arcane.

It's a neat, flavorful concept. I think it just needs to be fleshed out a bit more to be truly accepted by others.

Baroncognito
2013-05-08, 04:06 AM
There are some developers who kind of played with a somewhat similar concept in Pathfinder.

Well, firstly, I'd talk about the Bladebound Magus, which essentially has a weapon that levels with her.

Then there's 3rd party stuff like "Legendary Weapons" and "Legendary Armour" which essentially works this way:

You find a +1 Longsword, you identify it and figure out that it has more potential, and if you take Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, and get 5 ranks in Intimidate and 4 ranks in Knowledge (Geography), it should develop more.

Uncle Pine
2013-05-08, 03:41 PM
I think this rule would probably require too much work for the DM if you apply it to every single magic item, weapon or whatsoever. It sounds like a great hook if you want to do an artifact-based adventure, but it'd otherwise be detrimental over time.

Anyway, there's an app optional rule for that! DM Guide II, page 231, "bonded magic items": every character can imbue an item that either masterwork or magic or that is worth at least 100 gp through a "bonding ritual". While most rituals require you to slay a powerful foe, there are some that require more original act of prowess. If you complete the ritual, you can then enchant the item as per item creation rules. Have a look at that!