Spellcraft checks and Spells from Items

[Glarx]

G'day, everyone. Quick question about items. If I were to cast an Invisible spell from an enchanted belt buckle -- let's say Invisible Summon Creature IV -- would a Spellcraft check successfully reveal what the spell was?

[Keneth]

As far as I know, you can't identify it with Spellcraft whether it's invisible or not. Activating an item is not the same as casting a spell. You can identify the effect once it's in place, however.

[BowStreetRunner]

The best place to find this info is in Rules Compendium on page 138. There are three uses of the Spellcraft skill that are worth noting here.


In order to identify a spell being cast you must be able to hear or see the spell's verbal or somatic components. Since a spell cast from a magic item would have neither, this use of Spellcraft would not work.
You can identify a spell in place and in effect if you can see or detect the effects of the spell, although many item spells do not have persistent effects.
After rolling a save against a spell targeted at you, you can use spellcraft to identify that spell. Of course, this does not help if you are not targeted and/or don't have to roll a save.

[Glarx]

Fascinating! A follow-up question: would Black Tentacles' grapple attempts count as 'rolling a save'? Or would it need to be something like finger of death, where the save is an integral component of the spell, as opposed to an effect that occurs after the spell is cast? I'm not sure if that language makes sense...

[BowStreetRunner]

Fascinating! A follow-up question: would Black Tentacles' grapple attempts count as 'rolling a save'? Or would it need to be something like finger of death, where the save is an integral component of the spell, as opposed to an effect that occurs after the spell is cast? I'm not sure if that language makes sense...

Black Tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm) does not involve a saving throw. So the third option of spellcraft would be out. However, it does have a round/level duration, so if you can see or detect the tentacles (which should be easy if you are in the area of effect) you can use the second option.

Note the DCs are different.


Identify a spell being cast: 15 + SL
Identify a spell in place and in effect: 20 + SL
Identify a spell targeted at you after rolling a save: 25 + SL

[Glarx]

Fabulous! Thank you kindly. It's in tandem with the Invisible Spell metamagic so unless they have See Invisibility active, it should be good and clandestine.

Thank you for the clarification! :smallbiggrin:

[Keneth]

Do note that Invisible Spell does not necessarily make every aspect of every spell invisible. What counts as a "visual manifestation" is often arguable.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how you're applying a metamagic feat to an item that doesn't appear to be spell trigger or spell completion. But since this is a 3.5 question, there's probably a way.

In all honesty, while invisible spell is a fun feat, it tends to cause more arguments at the table than it's worth, so after several bad experiences, I've decided to ban it in all my games. As a DM, I don't want to deal with it, and no player wants to be on the other end of it either.