[PF] Maybe I'm asking this the wrong way...

[Karoht]

I've been asking this question in a few other threads but with little to no responses, and I am starting to think I am going about asking this question incorrectly, hence the thread title. If the question is unclear or needs rephrasing, by all means ask.

So I'm planning an upcoming campaign where each player of the 6 person group will be responsible for two characters. Players will alternate between two parties at set story intervals. The plan is to start both parties at level 3. The parties have no knowledge of one another (initially), but will eventually meet up and begin working together at a much later point in the story, some time past level 15.

The catch?
One party will be casters. I'm actually encouraging 4 of the 6 players to be Wizards for thematic reasons.
One party will be mostly non-casters. I'm hoping to squeeze in a 4/9 and 6/9 caster or two, but that is all.


So I'm wondering, how widely different will balancing encounters for these two parties be? In terms of CR where possible.
Perhaps some examples of what might constitute challenging encounters for both parties would be a good idea, hopefully contrasting the major differences.
At Level 5?
At Level 10?
At Level 15?

One thing missing from our groups normal games is the idea of multiple encounters per day. Typically there is just one, it tends to be our CR minus 2, and that is just how it goes. I want to ensure we do adventuring a bit more realistically, where resources are going to be taxed as opposed to not.
So I'm aiming for 4 encounters per day on average.

Also, while this is a Pathfinder campaign, I will likely be introducing some ToB content, with the party gaining access to those features/manouvers/stances/etc via items (IE-A Hammer that grants Mountain Hammer x/day) rather than by taking levels in a ToB class. This party is very wary of ToB and other 3.5 content due to some poor experiences in the past which aren't really relevant to the discussion.

[wayfare]

I get what you are saying.

I think a big party of casters is going to become pretty famous pretty quickly, unless they go to lengths not to be. They might become "The Avengers" of the local area, while the party of non-casters would be like "the midnight sons" of the same region (/comics geek).

In terms of threats out of the book, hoe high OP is the party. Because a full casting party that knows what its doing is serious. I wouldn't mind regularly going up to CL +3 interms of threats.

[Chained Birds]

CRs don't have to change at all, just select monsters that won't be insta-killed by the party setup.

A creature with a decent SR or Saves can prove troublesome for the casters. To make things interesting, have enemies who have very different saving throw specialties, like a few smaller enemies having good Reflex, a large guy with a good Will, and a Leader character with a good Fort. This will allow all the factions of the caster group to be useful. Also throwing monsters with immunities to the casters' usual strategies (like Fire immunity to counter Fireball spamming or Mindless Trait to counter Mind-Effecting Spell/Abilities).
Just remember not to make everything the casters fight immune to something another caster specializes in. For example, a group of undead is fine for a while, but also throw in some non-mindless enemies (like rats or something) so the Enchanter doesn't just sit there twiddling his thumbs.

For the non-casters, try to make situations where they'd have to use tactics. Like have a Flying or Burrowing enemy, or a Tripper. I'd suggest not using anything incorporeal until everyone has magic weapons. Invisible enemies may prove a challenge, though a smart group will find away (or die... it happens). CMB abusing creatures and enemies will also be interesting to throw at the non-casters, like maybe a giant frog that can Drag a fighter its awaiting mouth.

[Karoht]

How good is the party at optimization?
Not very. Most of them focus on hit point damage, though some are coming around and seeing how inefficient this mode of defeating enemies can be. Some of them are just now realizing how potent the Save or Suck spells are, two of them actually seem to comprehend what constitutes battlefield control.

[wayfare]

How good is the party at optimization?
Not very. Most of them focus on hit point damage, though some are coming around and seeing how inefficient this mode of defeating enemies can be. Some of them are just now realizing how potent the Save or Suck spells are, two of them actually seem to comprehend what constitutes battlefield control.

Well, if they are nor OPers, then I'd say that you want to focus on diversity in combat for their encounters. A caster party can down one big threat easily (though direct fighters will always have problems with golems, sr types, and mindless creatures), so a bunch of more mobile threats is a better fight for them.

The difference wont be too big until above 5th level. The tactics just become really apparent, and you have to fight very strategically against a team of teleporting, blasting, dominating, summoing heroes. Once your team can essentially double in size things get tough.

But blaster types are, in general, easier to manage. Also, enemies might start to hear about them and develop tactics for fighting them.