PDA

View Full Version : [D&D 3.5 System] Gestalt Expanded



Xuldarinar
2013-05-08, 07:11 PM
Before I establish the expansions to the system, Here is how the system operates.

You select 2 classes. At any given level you take any 2 classes or 1 class and one prestige class. You may not take 2 prestige classes in a given level. Prestige classes that are essentially combinations of two classes -should- be prohibited but are not necessarily.

Hit Die: Take the larger one.

Base Attack Bonus: Choose the better.

Base Saving Throw Bonuses: For each save, choose the better.

Class skills: Take the higher. Combine skill lists

Class features: Take from both. Shared class features accrue at the faster rate. Spellcasting is kept separate. All class based restrictions are applied normally.


Now, the changes.

Assume at any given level, you have 2.5 class points (For a lower power campaign with this, start with 1.5 class points or even just 1 class point). A base class costs 1 point. Prestige classes cost 1.5 points. Prestige classes that are mixes of two or more classes, if permitted, cost 2 points. Points cannot be saved for use in later levels. Now, you may give up something for more points. (Values will be adjusted as appropriate)

Hit Die 0.25 per step. (d12 or d10 becomes d6. d8 or d6 becomes d4. d4 reduces to 0. Constitution mod is still applied at every level)

Attack Bonus: 0.5 (Poor progression: 0.25)

Saves (all together): 0.5

Skills: 0.25 per step. (10 becomes 5, 8 becomes 6, 6 or 5 become 3, 4 becomes 2. 3 or 2 becomes 0. Intellect mod is still applied at every level)


In total, if you give up everything else. You will have 5 class points to work with for class features.

Below are three tables, showing the required points for the possible combinations using this expansion of the system. mPrC is a PrC that is a mix of two or more classes, like the mystic theurge. Something that is recommended to be prohibited.

{table]-|0 PrC|1 PrC|2 PrC|3 PrC
0 Classes|-|1.5|3|4.5
1 Class|1|2.5|4|-
2 Classes|2|3.5|5|-
3 Classes|3|4.5|-|-
4 Classses|4|-|-|-
5 Classses|5|-|-|- [/table]

{table]-|0 mPrC|1 mPrC|2 mPrC
0 Classes|-|2|4
1 Class|1|3|5
2 Classes|2|4|-
3 Classes|3|5|-
4 Classses|4|-|-
5 Classses|5|-|- [/table]

{table]-|0 PrC|1 PrC|2 PrC|3 PrC
0 mPrC|-|1.5|3|4.5
1 mPrC|2|3.5|5|-
2 mPrC|4|-|-|- [/table]

ArkenBrony
2013-05-08, 08:51 PM
ok, i like this, but i'm going to give an example that i want you to verify, so as to make sure I've got this right. say I am a Druid/Barbarian, that would be 2 points, if it was a campaign where only 1.5 is allowed per level, i could give up the barbarians hit die to get that .5 points back, so for all abilities i would use the better of druid and barbarian, except i would have a d8 hit die

edit: how many points would you recommend in using this in combination with non-gestalt

Xuldarinar
2013-05-08, 10:38 PM
ok, i like this, but i'm going to give an example that i want you to verify, so as to make sure I've got this right. say I am a Druid/Barbarian, that would be 2 points, if it was a campaign where only 1.5 is allowed per level, i could give up the barbarians hit die to get that .5 points back, so for all abilities i would use the better of druid and barbarian, except i would have a d8 hit die

edit: how many points would you recommend in using this in combination with non-gestalt

Ah. Perhaps I wasn't clear on this point. Ok.

In a campaign with 1.5 points.

You give up the hit die, as in you elect to not gain any hit points that level (besides the general increase via constitution), gaining .5 points so you have a total of 2 points, so you can have 2 classes at that level. This does however bring up a very good point, so I'm considering changing the entry regarding hit points.

As for recommending how many points i'd recommend. I'd advice having 1 or 1.5. In the case of having only 1 point, you'd need to give up something to enter a prestige class. I based the point system on the fact you can have 2 classes in gestalt, or 1 base and 1 prestige.

By the way, in a standard game (without these rules). Might i suggest the Druidic Avenger variant from Unearthed arcana if you wish to mix druid and barbarian? You give up the companion and spontaneous casting in exchange for fast movement, rage, and tireless rage. Diplomacy is replaced with intimidate, and wild empathy takes a -4 penalty.

Nightraiderx
2013-05-09, 06:31 AM
Maybe that's a bit harsh for the skill points/hit points how about a step down from the normal instead of a straight up ban. for example
10+int down to 5+int
8+int down to 4+ int
6+int down to 3+int
4+int down to 2+int
2+int down to 0+int

and the same for hit points:
D12-> d6
D10 -> d6
D8 -> d4
D6-> d4
D4-> 0

Xuldarinar
2013-05-09, 06:44 AM
Maybe that's a bit harsh for the skill points/hit points how about a step down from the normal instead of a straight up ban. for example
10+int down to 5+int
8+int down to 4+ int
6+int down to 3+int
4+int down to 2+int
2+int down to 0+int

and the same for hit points:
D12-> d6
D10 -> d6
D8 -> d4
D6-> d4
D4-> 0

Hmm.. not a bad idea. Though, how many points would you recommend for these?

edit: i've added them in, setting the values I felt to be appropriate.

Nightraiderx
2013-05-09, 10:39 AM
I think quarter steps are pretty good for that, that way
it's crippled but it's not a flat out disadvantage (a double 1d4 type gish dropping 1d4 is a lot less loss than a barb/warblade gish dropping a whole d12)

will this also work in reverse? as in switching or lowering one stat and increasing another? (lowering skill points to get a +1 bab) or (lowering hit points to get more skill points)

Xuldarinar
2013-05-09, 01:24 PM
I think quarter steps are pretty good for that, that way
it's crippled but it's not a flat out disadvantage (a double 1d4 type gish dropping 1d4 is a lot less loss than a barb/warblade gish dropping a whole d12)

will this also work in reverse? as in switching or lowering one stat and increasing another? (lowering skill points to get a +1 bab) or (lowering hit points to get more skill points)

I would say yes. It makes sense to. A gestalt game typically is higher power, so one could simply decide to be one class and enhance their statistics, simply limiting the features gained.