Roy's Illusionary Self is still forgetting something

[Dumbestupidiot]

Roy is neglecting the phyllactary (or however you spell it). He can't truely beat Xykon until he destroys it which is a major screw up for the hero, and one he has already had. Roy does know about it, doesn't he?

[Reathin]

Roy is neglecting the phyllactary (or however you spell it). He can't truely beat Xykon until he destroys it which is a major screw up for the hero, and one he has already had. Roy does know about it, doesn't he?

Man, if only he had the phylactery in a box right next to him...

[Tebryn]

Roy is neglecting the phyllactary (or however you spell it). He can't truely beat Xykon until he destroys it which is a major screw up for the hero, and one he has already had. Roy does know about it, doesn't he?

He's not forgetting it. It's around Red Cloak's neck. Who is trapped. We haven't seen the end of the Illusion yet.

[Thrillhouse]

He knows about it by now, but he can also be pretty sure that "the goblin" has no hope of getting away--O-Chul almost certainly told them the phylactery is Redcloak's holy symbol, and as far as Roy knows, nothing has changed or complicated this fact.

[Jay R]

Well, of course. It wouldn't be Roy's self - imaginary or not - if his plan was complete and effective.

[NerdyKris]

Well, of course. It wouldn't be Roy's self - imaginary or not - if his plan was complete and effective.

Except that, as pointed out, he knows that the phylactary is around Red Cloak's neck, and they are more than capable of taking him down when he's alone. Especially since they have no idea how powerful he is.

[Steward]

It takes liches quite some time to come back even if their phylacteries are intact, right? If a hero takes the phylactery into custody at the same time as he kills the lich, he still has plenty of time to dispose of the phylactery before the lich returns to stop him, right? I'm not sure if it's hours, days, weeks, etc. but I definitely think that Roy would have had some time to find and smash the phylactery if he had smashed Xykon "for real".

[NerdyKris]

It takes liches quite some time to come back even if their phylacteries are intact, right? If a hero takes the phylactery into custody at the same time as he kills the lich, he still has plenty of time to dispose of the phylactery before the lich returns to stop him, right? I'm not sure if it's hours, days, weeks, etc. but I definitely think that Roy would have had some time to find and smash the phylactery if he had smashed Xykon "for real".

Yes, we see this in comic the first time Xykon was destroyed. It took him several days at the least to grow back. We also see it again when his phylactery is lost. He doesn't want to destroy his body and reform at it's location because he would be completely vulnerable to getting destroyed over and over.

[Sactheminions]

You guys are forgetting something.

Where is Xykon's phyla terry again?

[factotum]

You guys are forgetting something.

Where is Xykon's phyla terry again?

I don't think anyone's forgetting anything. This is all speaking in terms of the hallucination Roy and the others are experiencing, and since that's based on their own knowledge of the situation (hence Redcloak's patch on the wrong eye and his fawning subservience to Xykon) the phylactery will be where they expect it to be--namely, around Redcloak's neck. The fact it's somewhere different in reality doesn't change that.

[Bogardan_Mage]

You guys are forgetting something.

Where is Xykon's phyla terry again?
Not that it's relevant to the Microcosm (which factotum pretty comprehensively explained) but Redcloak still has it, even if he's not wearing it around his neck.

[Kish]

You guys are forgetting something.

Where is Xykon's phyla terry again?
Reasonably certain Xykon's phylum is still human, not a kind of cloth.

[The Pilgrim]

Well, Roy has got Redcloak's pirate patch on the wrong eye, so it's not surprising he forgets abouth the phil.

[Reddish Mage]

Well, of course. It wouldn't be Roy's self - imaginary or not - if his plan was complete and effective.

So true. So true.

[Belkar<3]

Jeez, guys, pay attention.

Redcloak's phylactery is on his neck, but the fake one is in Xykon's base on another plane. Roy knows he has a phylactery, because Eugene came and TOLD HIM. But he doesn't know that Redcloak switched the phylactery, so in the illusion, he still has the old one. And we have seen the end of the illusion, just not their reactions to it.

[Jay R]

Jeez, guys, pay attention.

Redcloak's phylactery is on his neck, but the fake one is in Xykon's base on another plane.

Not quite. There are now three pricey baubles to track:

The fake phylactery is in Xykon's base on another plane.
Redcloak's new holy symbol (not Xykon's phylactery) is on Redcloak's neck.
Redcloak is hiding his old holy symbol (Xykon's real phylactery).

[NerdyKris]

Well, Roy has got Redcloak's pirate patch on the wrong eye, so it's not surprising he forgets abouth the phil.

I don't know how many times it needs to be pointed out in this thread that HE DID NOT FORGET ABOUT IT. It's right there in front of him, on a captured goblin he thinks they can kill easily. Xykon doesn't regenerate instantly, as we've seen in the comic.


If people are going off the "It was lost" part, Roy's assumption, along with Hinjo, was that Xykon would only move out once it was found. Therefore, if Roy sees illusionary Xykon in front of him, he would assume the phylactery was found and given to it's previous holder.

[Dumbestupidiot]

Roy might not have forgotten about it, but he has started counting his chickens before they hatched. He hasn't truely Killed Xykon until the phylactary is destroyed (how does one destroy it anyway?) and Xykon knows that that is one of the weak parts of having the phylactary and has taken steps to be sure that it is safer then it was. Sure, Roy doesn't know that, but that's the point. He'd destroy Redcloak's holy symbol and call it a day while Xykon was growing back at the astral plane (pretending that it was the real phylactary and concidering how long it's taking Xykon that is quite a fortress)

[Bogardan_Mage]

Roy might not have forgotten about it, but he has started counting his chickens before they hatched. He hasn't truely Killed Xykon until the phylactary is destroyed (how does one destroy it anyway?) and Xykon knows that that is one of the weak parts of having the phylactary and has taken steps to be sure that it is safer then it was. Sure, Roy doesn't know that, but that's the point. He'd destroy Redcloak's holy symbol and call it a day while Xykon was growing back at the astral plane (pretending that it was the real phylactary and concidering how long it's taking Xykon that is quite a fortress)
That's why people are proposing there is a secondary effect of the illusion to induce complacency. It's showing Roy his greatest desire(s) and he's not worrying about mitigating details or the likelihood of things going wrong. But who knows, maybe the way they break out of it is precisely because Roy decides it was too easy? We've only seen the establishing scene, at least give Roy a chance to figure it out.

[The Pilgrim]

I don't know how many times it needs to be pointed out in this thread that HE DID NOT FORGET ABOUT IT.

Looks like you are gonna have to point it out a lot more times. At least, as long as Roy is drooling to have killed Xykon without paying attention to the fact that he still has to destroy the Phil.

And mind the yelling. It's rude.

[Chronos]

Once you've destroyed the lich, the battle is, for practical purposes, won. Finding and destroying the phylactery is basically just mop-up. Yeah, it's mop-up that you still want to do relatively quickly, but it's not so time-critical that you can't spend a couple of rounds celebrating.

[Ellye]

In Roy's illusionary world, Redcloak doesn't seem to be nearly as dangerous and powerful as he is in reality.

And as far as Roy knows, the phylactery is right there on his neck. Right in front of him.

His illusionary self is probably just celebrating a bit, waiting for everyone to gather their bearings, and then proceed to kill Redcloak and destroy the bauble. Yes, that's a strong underestimation of the issue at hand, but illusions like this one aren't meant to be accurate.

[King of Nowhere]

putting aside for a moment that the phylactery would be carried by redcloak, and redcloak is no match for all the order together, and has been shown to be a glass cannon if forced in melee,
even if the phylactery was away, destroying xykon body would be a great victory. the oots would get to steal all his items, which are millions of gp worth. they are also likely to level up. xykon, on the other hand, loses all his items, including stuff he took years to craft or find. that would make him much weaker. he could easily roam around and find something, but it would be +1 or +2 stuff. no way to replace it soon when it took him over a century to oput it together.

[Morty]

Besides, it's an illusion, you know. Quite a powerful one. Of course it's going to muddle Roy's memories in order to make him imagine his greatest wish coming true.

[WindStruck]

TLDR version is... the illusion may not be over yet.

[The_Tentacle]

I expect that in the next comic, they will either be awakened or continue with Roy killing the phylactery and/or Redcloak. As stated above, we know:

The fake Phylactery is in Xykon's fortress.


The real phylactery is somewhere that Redcloak hid it.


But speaking of that, if Xykon had his real phylactery and respawned in his fortress, there are lots of traps.

Would he be able to get out? :smalltongue:

[ThePhantom]

A more true statement that Roy is forgetting in the illusion is that forcecage can be broken with disintegrate, which redclock is known to have. Who knows, that might be the detail that snaps him out of the illusion? Ah well, its up to the real V now to save the day.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Roy is forgetting in the illusion is that forcecage can be broken with disintegrate...

Maybe he doesn't know that?

Also, does one disintegrate always destroy a forcecage, or does it have hit points?

[Dycedarg]

A more true statement that Roy is forgetting in the illusion is that forcecage can be broken with disintegrate, which redclock is known to have. Who knows, that might be the detail that snaps him out of the illusion? Ah well, its up to the real V now to save the day.

If you want to get technical, the most important thing he's forgotten is that Word of Recall has no maximum distance and Forcecage doesn't block teleportation. Were this real, illusory Red Cloak would be one round away from Azure City. Of course, as everyoene else has said, the spell seems to be lulling him into believing that everything is going according to plan, and will continue to do so, so it's unlikely anything will prevent him from chopping Red Cloak's head off and breaking the phylactory.