4e Batman?

[Rhaegar14]

So, something I want to be clear on from the get-go. I am not looking for a Batman Wizard build.

My brother is home from university for the summer, and he wants to join our weekly D&D campaign while he's at home. His first concept for a character was Batman.

I have no idea how to make Batman -- actual Batman -- work in 4e. My first thought was some combination of Artificer and Monk, but there's not a lot of synergy going on there. My next thought was Sorcerer and Desert Wind Monk, but that's starting to stray from the original concept. Do any of you guys have a better idea?

[Mandrake]

In my opinion, consider a Rogue/Bard combination. He does have all those bat blades (small shuriken-like things), uses bunch of rope, hides, tinkers and whatnot, but he has also that public figure face (depicted differently in different stories; but a solitary or not, he is charismatic I suppose).

He can always take some form of dagger attachable to hand, like those razors he has.

You catch my point, I hope it helps.

[theNater]

Batman's pretty soundly a rogue: striking from the shadows, coming at people from weird angles, and understanding the criminal mind. Rogue doesn't inherently come with gadgets as such, but you can refluff various powers into gadget use easily enough. For example, Blinding Barrage can be a bunch of smoke bombs, while Great Leap and Nimble Climb may make use of grappling hooks.

[DragonBaneDM]

Yeahhh I'm gonna second Rogue here. Rogue with very fantastic and well rounded stats. Seriously, Bruce Wayne has straight 18s.

However a Strength/Dexterity Rogue would work awesome here! Lurk in the shadows! Train in Stealth and Intimidate and use shurikens as much as you want.

As for unarmed? Eh, screw it. Call his triangle blades on his gauntlets katars and have him take the feat for proficiency. Just refluff to make it work.

[neonchameleon]

The big question is how he sees Batman. Rogue (or Thief) is the obvious choice, but I'm going to suggest a human Monk for several reasons.

The first is that they are almost as skilled as rogues - and absurdly mobile. A fly (bat-line) at level 2 as an encounter utiltity power.

The second is that Batman needs to be able to cut through mooks like a hot knife through butter. He needs to be able to beat up the entire Royal Flush gang single handed. You need AoEs for that - and the Monk has them in spades.

The third is toughness. Rogues aren't that tough; a monk with Unarmoured Agility is a real pain to hit and Monks have seriously good NADs. Monks aren't complete tanks but are very tough for strikers.

The fourth is weapons. Batman hits things with his fists. Rogues normally use knives and clubs. Not a telling argument but an important one.

Batman needs a lot of skills trained: Athletics, Stealth, Thievery, Streetwise, Insight, Intimidate, Perception. Possibly also Bluff and Acrobatics As a monk I think you get four trained skills - and another one for human. So that's two multiclass feats into Warlord.

Just go straight monk. Batman has most of his gadgets made for him by other people. (It's subtle but over the years he's used Harold, Waynecorp, Ray Palmer, Kord Industries, captured material from villains, League of Shadows material, and more).

[Tegu8788]

A Monk MC Rogue could work, or a Rogue that picks up the unarmed feature (there are a number of ways) could also be good. An important question to ask him, what aspect of Batman does he like? The sleuthy detective, the science hero, the brawler, the shadowy vigilante, or the guy that casts Superman?

Avenger, Artificer, Monk, Rogue, Warlord, they could all do well.


Or, random thought, Ranger with Monk thrown in. I think with a theme and MC you can get both unarmed and unarmored features. Twin Striking with your fists, or batarangs (daggers), with plenty of skills. Be a hybrid for the best of both, use a movement technique to get into position through a crowd of minions, punching everything around you.

[Mando Knight]

I think with a theme and MC you can get both unarmed and unarmored features.

Unarmored is a lot less important to being Batman than being able to fight unarmed (and especially less than being vengeance and the night). Batman's had a lot of armored suits.

[Tegu8788]

Very true. He does where Kevlar at times, and robo suits occasionally, but one of his defining characteristics, to me, is his ability to walk through a room full machine gun fire and never get hit.

What role does your brother want/need to fill? Striker is pretty obvious, but a case could be made for Leader pretty easy, a Warlord or Bard/Skald. A Controller would be gadget heavy, Rituals being research time. Defender would be tougher, perhaps Swordmage or the Brawler or Two Weapon Fighter.

[Mando Knight]

but one of his defining characteristics, to me, is his ability to walk through a room full machine gun fire and never get hit.
He rarely does that without a trick up his sleeve. Sure, the mooks might have gone to the Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy and thought they were signing up for an A-Team episode, but how Batman avoids getting pegged by a stray rifle round is usually by scaring the crap out of the enemy and not being in the general vicinity of where they're trying to shoot.

[vasharanpaladin]

Human rogue, MC monk with Master of the Fist, take Piercing Palm. Done!

[blturner99]

He could also be a rogue with a "Belt of the Brawler".

[vasharanpaladin]

He could also be a rogue with a "Belt of the Brawler".

Which would in turn require him to take a horribad class feature and horribad powers to justify said class feature. Stick with Piercing Palm and Brutal Scoundrel.

[Rhaegar14]

What role does your brother want/need to fill?

He doesn't NEED to fill any particular role. He's temporarily joining a long-running campaign that will continue to run after he goes back to school. We already have a pretty well-balanced party (Warden/Druid, Runepriest, Archer Ranger, Warlock). The ONE thing I could encourage him to do that would be massively helpful is bring some at-will AoE to the table, but it's not strictly necessary.

As far as want, "Batman" was pretty much the end of the description. Rogue with Unarmed Combatant and Piercing Palm seems like the way to go, to me.

[Ashdate]

If you want some AoE, Monk would be a better choice I think.

[Alejandro]

Since it's temporary, just go with whatever the player thinks would be most fun.

Honestly, it would be hard to do. You'd need a character that hits hard in unarmed melee combat, can wear armor easily, uses alchemical items, is good at most of the D&D skills, and has excellent strength, dexterity, intelligence, and charisma.

Edit: Although Batman does need AoE, in his movie depictions he is usually benefiting from fighting mostly minions. It's not really that Batman hits lots of enemies at once; it's that he drops them after he connects. This is, of course, for the benefit of the movie. Basically, Batman goes up against actual lurker or brute or whatever enemies, like the Joker or Bane, who also have a bunch of 1 HP minions.

[Dimers]

For reasons of minion-mashing and AoE and because Batman frequently fights whole crowds, I'm inclined to agree with monk. If your brother wants stealth tricks, nobody does it better than rogue, but that's the only thing that would make me prefer rogue for this. Either way, you get a striker, which is a good fifth party member when you have the roles covered well already.

[neonchameleon]

For reasons of minion-mashing and AoE and because Batman frequently fights whole crowds, I'm inclined to agree with monk. If your brother wants stealth tricks, nobody does it better than rogue, but that's the only thing that would make me prefer rogue for this. Either way, you get a striker, which is a good fifth party member when you have the roles covered well already.

And honestly a monk trained in stealth and thievery isn't a lot worse at it than a rogue. High Dex, training. The rogue only wins if he has utility powers - and if the monk takes the Cunning Sneak multiclass he's better at hiding than most rogues.

[Surrealistik]

Batman is most closely duplicated with a monk, yes.

[Tegu8788]

All ranged implement powers are just gadgets now.

[Bravo]

Given Batman's monikers "The Dark Knight" and "The Caped Crusader" as well as his desire to punch crime in the face and his moral infallibility, he has the attitude and armor of a black Paladin. Because of this, I find it really weird that the Paladin class is such an awful fit for him, skill-wise.Skill-wise, he's definitely more of a Monk with Rogue feats and expensive gear.

[vasharanpaladin]

Given Batman's monikers "The Dark Knight" and "The Caped Crusader" as well as his desire to punch crime in the face and his moral infallibility, he has the attitude and armor of a black Paladin. Because of this, I find it really weird that the Paladin class is such an awful fit for him, skill-wise.Skill-wise, he's definitely more of a Monk with Rogue feats and expensive gear.

Skill-wise, he's more of a Rogue with Monk feats. :smallannoyed:

[neonchameleon]

Skill-wise, he's more of a Rogue with Monk feats. :smallannoyed:

That's why he has two multiclass feats into Rogue. He moves much more like a monk and fights like one. He has, however, picked up extra skills from Sneak of Shadows and Twilight Adept - and possibly also Cunning Sneak. At that point skill-wise he's effectively a rogue.