New DM for 3.5 Needs Some Tips From Vets! [Archive]

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Warren Peace

2013-05-09, 07:08 AM

Hey War here and let me start off by saying thanks for letting me join the site and having a place to ask these questions! I really hope I am doing this right :smalltongue:

So let me give a brief description of what's going on I am a brand new DM (in my eyes) I have maybe DM'ed 30-50 sessions that may seem like a lot to some but to me as I keep playing I don't feel like I am getting better at it but actually worse :smallfrown:

We started out playing sometime last year using the Faerun map. We weren't following the Forgotten Realms campaign we were just using it as a base of where the heck we were lol. But almost immediately we ran into problems. From my lack of know how to plot progression and story line it all kinda flopped back into my lap as a giant mess.

My players leveled up to fast, were insanely overpowered, and pretty much killed just about everything I threw at them without a challenge. Here's a tip never give a ranger custom made repeating crossbows that he can dual wield! It's a nightmare to watch your every monster turn into a walking pin cushion...

So I ended that campaign prematurely and planned towards a better and more scripted campaign. Skyrim.

We started my newest campaign about 4 or 5 months ago it's based on the Skyrim world (we even started our first mission at Helgen when Alduin attacked) and so far my group size has doubled just from the interest in this campaign! We aren't playing it strictly to the game we are using elements of D&D in a Skyrim based world. Just last time I DM'ed I introduced the dwemer back into the world of Skyrim. My players were tasked with finding a book for the college of Winterhold to translate a book they already had. The book was in ancient Dwemer and they needed to enter into a thought to be lost library in Black Reach to find anything that could help them translate the book. Through some awesome fights with spheres and spiders and two centurions my players found the book they needed and had to fight my demi boss a dragon priest made from dwarven mechanics powered by soul gems and then after that (the story went on but I won't explain everything that happened) a clockwork dragon. The adventure was a success and was a blast. That was until I let two other players try out the DM chair...

What took me days of planning and thought and writing they made up on the spot. Neither one of these players had any real experience in the DM chair and yet they picked it up so fast I was shocked! What they thought up in a few minutes had taken me hours. And I don't know how I should feel about this.

One player is amazing at voices and personalities of each different person he controls. And the other can make up a story line and plot that rivals even the game designers ideas. I played a mission he made up on a weekend, A necromancer had hidden and saved one last oblivion gate and we had to go shut it down, long story short and many epic battles later we shut it down and now have a way to teleport between Skyrim and Cyrodiil. I was awe inspired at the detail he put into it and how well his plot went from beginning to end.

As a new DM that is already worried about doing a good job and keeping my players interested how should I approach this? I don't want us all to start "one upping" each other by seeing who can be the better DM but I also don't want to lose my players just because I think I'm not as good a DM as they are.

Has anyone else had this problem? How did you handle it? I keep trying to tell myself it's all in my head I see the smiles and the fun they have every time I DM but then I see how much more fun I have when they DM and I am worried I am doing something wrong.

Does anyone have some good tips for combating DM rivalry? Or am I just jealous? It's ultimately my world and my campaign but I'm not going to throw that in my friends faces and "rule" over them but I would like it if they would actually ask me first if they can do certain things or not.

I feel like I am rambling and need to wrap this up so if anyone has any answers on how to keep my players interested and my fellow DM's from stealing the show Ill gladly try them out. :smallsmile:

Thanks again and remember I am new here so if I have messed up in something forgive me please :smalltongue:

Golden Ladybug

2013-05-09, 07:44 AM

First of all, I'd like to say that I've never had the opportunity to have a DM Rivalry with anyone; I was shoved into the DM's chair during my second time playing after the colossal trainwreck that was my first time playing D&D, and since then I haven't been able to get out of said chair for more than a one-shot. Oh well, I hope I can give some good advice anyway.

What took me days of planning and thought and writing they made up on the spot. Neither one of these players had any real experience in the DM chair and yet they picked it up so fast I was shocked! What they thought up in a few minutes had taken me hours. And I don't know how I should feel about this.

One player is amazing at voices and personalities of each different person he controls. And the other can make up a story line and plot that rivals even the game designers ideas.

I don't think you really need to think any particular way about it; people have aptitude for different things, and from what you've described it seems like these two players of yours worked together to best combine their talents. Obviously, storytelling comes more naturally to one of these players (alternatively, they're more comfortable improvising or they simply know the TES Lore really well) and voice acting comes naturally to the other.

Everyone has certain talents, and approaches the game in different ways. What seems to work for you, planning out the game and methodically setting up the adventure might be at odds to a more fluid style of DMing, but its not better or worse :smallsmile:

As a new DM that is already worried about doing a good job and keeping my players interested how should I approach this? I don't want us all to start "one upping" each other by seeing who can be the better DM but I also don't want to lose my players just because I think I'm not as good a DM as they are.

I don't think you need to worry too much about this; I doubt vrey much that your players are going to storm out just because your not the best DM ever. The fact that you're even asking for advice about this shows that you care about your game and want to make sure its enjoyable, and that goes a long way to making your Players want to play at your table. You care, and let me tell you; a DM who cares about whats going on and is making sure that its enjoyable for the players will go a long way towards making the players care and enjoy the game.

I'd caution against trying to start a DM Arms Race as well. There's no possible good that can come at that.

Has anyone else had this problem? How did you handle it? I keep trying to tell myself it's all in my head I see the smiles and the fun they have every time I DM but then I see how much more fun I have when they DM and I am worried I am doing something wrong.

I'll let you in on another little secret; it is infinitely more fun to be a player than it is to be a DM. The task of DM is an often thankless, time consuming job that eventually leaves you bitter, twisted and hateful (like me!). I'm not at all surprised that you have more fun when you play than when you DM.

But keep in mind that those smiling faces you mentioned are there; you're obviously doing something right, and your Players are enjoying themselves :smallsmile:

Trust me, you'd know if they weren't; few can complain as much and as obviously as Gamers.

It's ultimately my world and my campaign but I'm not going to throw that in my friends faces and "rule" over them but I would like it if they would actually ask me first if they can do certain things or not.

This is a fair point, but its one that doesn't really need much in the way of secret DM Trickery to solve; talk to these guys and ask if you can set some ground rules; just ask them to run by anything major with you before they run their session. I very much doubt that this will be a problem.

For the most part though, I'd just enjoy it. You seem to enjoy playing as well as DMing, and you've got the opportunity to do both and have fun regardless.

You lucky bastard :smallbiggrin:

Warren Peace

2013-05-09, 08:02 AM

First of all, I'd like to say that I've never had the opportunity to have a DM Rivalry with anyone; I was shoved into the DM's chair during my second time playing after the colossal trainwreck that was my first time playing D&D, and since then I haven't been able to get out of said chair for more than a one-shot. Oh well, I hope I can give some good advice anyway.

I don't think you really need to think any particular way about it; people have aptitude for different things, and from what you've described it seems like these two players of yours worked together to best combine their talents. Obviously, storytelling comes more naturally to one of these players (alternatively, they're more comfortable improvising or they simply know the TES Lore really well) and voice acting comes naturally to the other.

Everyone has certain talents, and approaches the game in different ways. What seems to work for you, planning out the game and methodically setting up the adventure might be at odds to a more fluid style of DMing, but its not better or worse :smallsmile:

I don't think you need to worry too much about this; I doubt vrey much that your players are going to storm out just because your not the best DM ever. The fact that you're even asking for advice about this shows that you care about your game and want to make sure its enjoyable, and that goes a long way to making your Players want to play at your table. You care, and let me tell you; a DM who cares about whats going on and is making sure that its enjoyable for the players will go a long way towards making the players care and enjoy the game.

I'd caution against trying to start a DM Arms Race as well. There's no possible good that can come at that.

I'll let you in on another little secret; it is infinitely more fun to be a player than it is to be a DM. The task of DM is an often thankless, time consuming job that eventually leaves you bitter, twisted and hateful (like me!). I'm not at all surprised that you have more fun when you play than when you DM.

But keep in mind that those smiling faces you mentioned are there; you're obviously doing something right, and your Players are enjoying themselves :smallsmile:

Trust me, you'd know if they weren't; few can complain as much and as obviously as Gamers.

This is a fair point, but its one that doesn't really need much in the way of secret DM Trickery to solve; talk to these guys and ask if you can set some ground rules; just ask them to run by anything major with you before they run their session. I very much doubt that this will be a problem.

For the most part though, I'd just enjoy it. You seem to enjoy playing as well as DMing, and you've got the opportunity to do both and have fun regardless.

You lucky bastard :smallbiggrin:
First I must say I'm a yugioh player myself and the moment I saw your profile pic I was like "this is gonna be good" :smalltongue:

Thank you for your kind words of inspiration! I will take what you said to heart I do find myself enjoying being a player more than a DM because yes it's exactly what you said a tiring thankless job that you never really get rewarded for other than seeing your friends have fun :smallfrown: but that's enough to make it worth it and to keep on playing.

Both other DM's really really love to DM. The other one wants to DM his own campaign and doesn't like being a player he'd much rather try to kill us with demons lol

I guess I am blessed with the fact that I have players who are willing to give me a break and let me play too I really hope you get that chance too in your sessions :smallsmile:

All in all I do care a lot about the game, my friends, their characters and their schedules and I am trying to balance them all. Dm'ing sure is a tough job :smalltongue: And I will have a talk with them about running things by me first for example I had them give a rouge character a ring of infinite invisibility on me and my eyes were so wide when the DM looked at me I was shaking my head "NOOOOOOO" and he quickly changed it to 3 charges :smalltongue: so I guess we can work it out peacefully :smallbiggrin:

Golden Ladybug

2013-05-09, 08:37 AM

First I must say I'm a yugioh player myself and the moment I saw your profile pic I was like "this is gonna be good" :smalltongue:

I'm sure you'll be shocked, but Golden Ladybug is my favourite card of all time. I have quite a collection of them :smallredface:

Thank you for your kind words of inspiration! I will take what you said to heart I do find myself enjoying being a player more than a DM because yes it's exactly what you said a tiring thankless job that you never really get rewarded for other than seeing your friends have fun :smallfrown: but that's enough to make it worth it and to keep on playing.

Any time, Warren. Us DMs have to stick together, after all :smallsmile:

And I agree with you, especially that it makes it worth it. I feel like I accomplished something when my players have fun at one of my sessions, and its a good feeling. Makes up for all the long hours spent putting together encounters, world building and stating up NPCs. And most dreadful of all, making Maps :smallyuk:

ddude987

2013-05-09, 08:49 AM

I'm sure you'll be shocked, but Golden Ladybug is my favourite card of all time. I have quite a collection of them :smallredface:

AH golden ladybug... the good old days of yugioh. I used to play many years ago but alas after teledad died I stopped playing. Boy did I love playing teledad. I play magic now though.

Anyways, onto your dilemma. Firstly as a relatively new DM who often looks up threads on advice I want to say golden's ideas were absolutely correct. I have DMd only a single campaign and that flopped because a lot of the player's decided they didn't like 3.5 and went back to 4e. I learned that what works best for me is spending lots of time planning encounters and story hooks as well as some hidden things here and there that players may or may not pick up on. If that is how you approach it and that is what works for you then go for it!

edit: Also starting a flame war with other DMs and one-upping them is bad especially if they are your friends. you are all there to have fun and that is what its about.

00dlez

2013-05-09, 09:31 AM

I've started and stopped several responses, they are coming across as somewhat mean spirited, though I assure you they are not intended to be so. I apologize in advance. Please take my response below with a gain of salt - I mean no offense and hopefully you can realize why I ask certain questions and take something away from it.

So let me give a brief description of what's going on I am a brand new DM (in my eyes) I have maybe DM'ed 30-50 sessions that may seem like a lot to some but to me as I keep playing I don't feel like I am getting better at it but actually worse :smallfrown:

My players leveled up to fast, were insanely overpowered, and pretty much killed just about everything I threw at them without a challenge. Here's a tip never give a ranger custom made repeating crossbows that he can dual wield! It's a nightmare to watch your every monster turn into a walking pin cushion...

Stop. You are the DM and you are in control. Like you mentioned, you don't have to be some jerk tyrant behind the screen, but all the DnD rules, including treasure and XP rewards, are JUST GUIDELINES. I've literally never awarded XP based on what monsters were slain during the session, same goes with treasure.
I'm not sure how you did it during this campaign, but that's an easy fix, don't do it that way anymore if it makes you uncomfortable as the DM to have such a fast progression.
Often times my group will simply level up based on where we are in the story, after accomplishing a certain task, or after a brilliant solution to a problem we faced - however you want to do it, but if you want to slow the pace... then slow the pace... it's your call!

We started out playing sometime last year using the Faerun map. We weren't following the Forgotten Realms campaign we were just using it as a base of where the heck we were lol. But almost immediately we ran into problems. From my lack of know how to plot progression and story line it all kinda flopped back into my lap as a giant mess.

So I ended that campaign prematurely and planned towards a better and more scripted campaign. Skyrim.

We started my newest campaign about 4 or 5 months ago it's based on the Skyrim world (we even started our first mission at Helgen when Alduin attacked) and so far my group size has doubled just from the interest in this campaign! We aren't playing it strictly to the game we are using elements of D&D in a Skyrim based world.

Stop again. Like I prefaced the post with, please don't take offense. You sound somewhat uninspired.
Using premade maps is fine - hell, premade settings for that matter. BUT, using premade stuff seems to really be hampering your ability to... "envision" the story at the start of the campaign. You don't have to plan out every detail, but maybe you should try it. It will help you to ask yourself critical questions before they become an issue and you can get a better handle on the story.
As the DM, your main goal isn't to set up the enemy orcs on the battle grid, it's to get the players to buy into the story, their characters, and to become immersed in the world.
Start small - a town or village - the players don't have to have an entire world at their finger tips starting at level 1. Who lives in the town? Not just their names and stat blocks, but their personalities, backstories, feelings. Just having a memorable inn keeper in a wayside town is better than 10 battles with orcs numbers 1, 2, 3, and 5 (4 kept wandering off...).

The stuff about the other players DMing and some general comments about your game
Now the question that really makes me sound like the south end of a north-bound cow... Are your players "better" than you at DnD?
Are they good at using the mechanics to build a powerful character? Do they have a better command of the rules than you? Are you afraid to kill a character in a battle? What about 2 or 3 characters?

DnD can become very lopsided in favor of the PCs if they are fighting to the best of their ability and the monsters they face aren't doing the same - which can be a fear of playing too rough with the players or a simple lack of knowledge on how to "play the monsters right", meaning using their powers to the maximum effect. The CRs don't mean anything unless the monster is played to its full potential.
Honestly, I don't DM much past 15th level because my players had a far better knowledge of spells and high level combat tactics than I - it simply wasn't much of a challenge for them.

TLDR
Don't be afraid to present a greater challenge to your players - from the monsters they face to limiting the XP and treasure they gain.
Challenge yourself! Using premade maps and settings is all well and good, but if you aren't inspiried by the world your story game will reflect that.

Your To-Do-List
- Get a copy of your players sheets and build a 4 encounter dungeon that specifically challenges the party. It should be taxing enough that they will be down to the bare bones of their resources (HP/Spells/etc)
- Work on your DM presentation. Grab a few pre-made modules and just read through them... literally read them out loud to yourself. It can help with location descriptions, including accents, etc.
- Look up how to write a short story and practice a little bit (could even be fanfiction for your campaign world that you could share with your players later). It gets you to think critically about story lines, the beginning middle and end of a plot, and other aspects that can really beef up your ability to craft an INSPIRED story.

Best of luck to you - I know a lot of this probably came off as insulting and passive aggressive, but again, I was just trying to be honest and help!

drax75

2013-05-09, 11:07 AM

I think you have received a lot of great idea's already. I have had similiar issues with my group of friends.

When i first got into DnD my group of friends consisted of about 13 people all around the table and all playing in one Massive group campaign.

Imagine trying to get 13 people to all agree on a course of action and stick to it, but i digress.

Ok in this group we had about 3 DM's, Me, my friend Sam, and my Friend Craig. All 3 of us ran a seperate game in seperate worlds with different styles.

Craig ran in Faeruan, Sam ran in Ravenloft, and i typically ran in the Underdark in the Faeruan setting (i was a huge drow fan... i know).

Everyone loved each of our games. We never really felt a rivalry between the 3 of us because each of our games were not only different but we each had a different style of game.

Craig's games were really hack and slash, you made the best combat character you could and you just killed orc's and dragons as fast as you could the story was ok but not amazing. But our groups enjoyed the combat a lot working together and coming out ahead.

Sam tended to run horror campaigns, lots of dark evil plots many ultra evil bad guys. you felt dirty in his game sometimes you have to make a hard call and you didnt feel you had made the right choice but it forced you to think. He had very little combat really it was more story and puzzles.

My games were lethal, and still are to this day. In my games it was about survival. How long can the party last before they made a mistake (think DarkSouls). It was fun because it was hard, I didnt pull punches, the bad guys were as strong as the party. It required planning, stealth, intrigue, and a lot of effort to accomplish anything in my games. People loved it because in the other 2 games you were the best in the world, but in my games you were equal to the things in the world.

The moral of the story, or the TL DR:

Style is important, its not just the plot, or the voice acting, or the ease of storytelling. Its the style of game you run that separates you from your friends. Keep running the game the way you run your game and it will work out for you.

People always tried to tell me "your games are too hard, or your unfair!" But they always want to play my games. I always get asked to run a game by the same people who whine.

My games have not changed and i have been DMing the same style of game in different setting for 10 years.

Good Luck in your games, if you ever need a hand always feel free to ask me or anyone else on the forums.

Gavinfoxx

2013-05-09, 11:28 AM

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4189.0

That's a good thread for you.

Squirrel_Dude

2013-05-09, 02:37 PM

As a new DM that is already worried about doing a good job and keeping my players interested how should I approach this? I don't want us all to start "one upping" each other by seeing who can be the better DM but I also don't want to lose my players just because I think I'm not as good a DM as they are.Being a good DM isn't just about telling a good story, or preparing a good adventure path. A great one-off is always fun, but that isn't representative of the most important skill a DM can have.

It's okay if your stories are a little tripe, or your combats sometimes have a couple flubbed rolls at times. Those will get better over time. As you learn the system and learn your players the stories wil come. Being a DM is just as much about being prepared and willing to be there every single week as it is about writing a great story. If you're doing that, then your players will be thankful for your role in the game.

Also, if you've been DMing multiple games in a row now, you may simply be experiencing burnout. It's a heavy job, and sometimes the preparation can get in the way of creativity. If that's the case, take a break and be a player again.

Warren Peace

2013-05-10, 01:12 AM

I've started and stopped several responses, they are coming across as somewhat mean spirited, though I assure you they are not intended to be so. I apologize in advance. Please take my response below with a gain of salt - I mean no offense and hopefully you can realize why I ask certain questions and take something away from it.

Stop. You are the DM and you are in control. Like you mentioned, you don't have to be some jerk tyrant behind the screen, but all the DnD rules, including treasure and XP rewards, are JUST GUIDELINES. I've literally never awarded XP based on what monsters were slain during the session, same goes with treasure.
I'm not sure how you did it during this campaign, but that's an easy fix, don't do it that way anymore if it makes you uncomfortable as the DM to have such a fast progression.
Often times my group will simply level up based on where we are in the story, after accomplishing a certain task, or after a brilliant solution to a problem we faced - however you want to do it, but if you want to slow the pace... then slow the pace... it's your call!

Stop again. Like I prefaced the post with, please don't take offense. You sound somewhat uninspired.
Using premade maps is fine - hell, premade settings for that matter. BUT, using premade stuff seems to really be hampering your ability to... "envision" the story at the start of the campaign. You don't have to plan out every detail, but maybe you should try it. It will help you to ask yourself critical questions before they become an issue and you can get a better handle on the story.
As the DM, your main goal isn't to set up the enemy orcs on the battle grid, it's to get the players to buy into the story, their characters, and to become immersed in the world.
Start small - a town or village - the players don't have to have an entire world at their finger tips starting at level 1. Who lives in the town? Not just their names and stat blocks, but their personalities, backstories, feelings. Just having a memorable inn keeper in a wayside town is better than 10 battles with orcs numbers 1, 2, 3, and 5 (4 kept wandering off...).

Now the question that really makes me sound like the south end of a north-bound cow... Are your players "better" than you at DnD?
Are they good at using the mechanics to build a powerful character? Do they have a better command of the rules than you? Are you afraid to kill a character in a battle? What about 2 or 3 characters?

DnD can become very lopsided in favor of the PCs if they are fighting to the best of their ability and the monsters they face aren't doing the same - which can be a fear of playing too rough with the players or a simple lack of knowledge on how to "play the monsters right", meaning using their powers to the maximum effect. The CRs don't mean anything unless the monster is played to its full potential.
Honestly, I don't DM much past 15th level because my players had a far better knowledge of spells and high level combat tactics than I - it simply wasn't much of a challenge for them.

TLDR
Don't be afraid to present a greater challenge to your players - from the monsters they face to limiting the XP and treasure they gain.
Challenge yourself! Using premade maps and settings is all well and good, but if you aren't inspiried by the world your story game will reflect that.

Your To-Do-List
- Get a copy of your players sheets and build a 4 encounter dungeon that specifically challenges the party. It should be taxing enough that they will be down to the bare bones of their resources (HP/Spells/etc)
- Work on your DM presentation. Grab a few pre-made modules and just read through them... literally read them out loud to yourself. It can help with location descriptions, including accents, etc.
- Look up how to write a short story and practice a little bit (could even be fanfiction for your campaign world that you could share with your players later). It gets you to think critically about story lines, the beginning middle and end of a plot, and other aspects that can really beef up your ability to craft an INSPIRED story.

Best of luck to you - I know a lot of this probably came off as insulting and passive aggressive, but again, I was just trying to be honest and help!
Actually I found what you had to say to be right on the mark and very informative! I came from a Yugioh forum that I am a part of that would literally tear you to pieces if you said something they didn't agree with so the fact that you care enough to not sound mean goes a long way.

First off yes, I was uninspired but not for the reasons you maybe thinking. I had an epic story line and plenty of action and a boss that scared the heck out of my players :smalltongue: He was a Half Demon Mindflayer Blackguard and I had the entire story written up for how he actually went from Balor to Mindflayer and it was awesome. The boss when he showed up literally made my players nervous and made for some EPIC battles. But the story just wasn't there not just because of me but because of my players I had leveled them up too fast and gave them the most amazing weapons and gear imaginable. My main fighter was a Minotaur who defeated the Headless Horseman and took his burning vorpal axe. They were OP. So I figured that was a learning experience now I needed to try something different and learn from my mistakes.

The reason I chose Skyrim is because we have all played it. When I said "you're in Whiterun" they knew the entire layout of the city and exactly where they could go to do things even the names of the people in the city which was good for a few reasons #1 almost my entire group is made of new ish players, some never played until I bought the books. #2 structure in a world we all love gives us the ability to create things in the game we always wanted to happen well.. in the game lol like for example I brought the Dwemer back into Skyrim I really wanted to do that in the actual game.

I would really like to try my very own little town and little adventure and let it grow and create a world of my own imagination which I am very capable of doing I guess I am just nervous of getting stuck in a rut again. Also you're right I am scared to death to kill off any of my players, when the going gets tough I start rolling initiative and going last every time of right when I would be able to kill someone I would hold back and attack a player I knew had more LP. I have a player that is the biggest cry baby as a player ever and if I kill him he would walk out simple as that and since he's a key player I'm trying to balance making a tough fight and outright slaughtering them.

As far as who's best at what? I am the best player and I am not just saying that to boast. I know tactics, I build the most powerful characters, I research the best gear and feats to empower my character and I lay waste to everyone in my path 90% of the time. As a player I am not afraid to challenge the rules and try new things for example I faced a Blackguard against my Battlemage and I was like screw it I am trying this I grappled him and blinked us to the the top of the cavern and dropped him 150 feet above the ground while I sipped a pot of feather fall. And it worked. I think outside of the box as a player and friends don't they just play then get mad when I am overpowered and I look at them like "you could be powerful too if you just did some research"

But you throw them into the DM chair and they aren't afraid to pit us against things double our level and say good luck you're probably going to die lol. IDK they are a good group of friends but some are way better at making up a story and being a DM than being a player and the difference shows when we all take turns DM'ing.

I guess you're right I do need to man up with the challenges I give them stuff I don't make them earn it and that stops now. No more handouts they are going to work for the crap they want lol

Thanks again for the advice I will try it out for sure :smallsmile:

Warren Peace

2013-05-10, 01:16 AM

Being a good DM isn't just about telling a good story, or preparing a good adventure path. A great one-off is always fun, but that isn't representative of the most important skill a DM can have.

It's okay if your stories are a little tripe, or your combats sometimes have a couple flubbed rolls at times. Those will get better over time. As you learn the system and learn your players the stories wil come. Being a DM is just as much about being prepared and willing to be there every single week as it is about writing a great story. If you're doing that, then your players will be thankful for your role in the game.

Also, if you've been DMing multiple games in a row now, you may simply be experiencing burnout. It's a heavy job, and sometimes the preparation can get in the way of creativity. If that's the case, take a break and be a player again.Thats true for why I stopped my first campaign I was so burned out I wanted nothing to do with anything anymore and needed a break. I am thankful they are actually willing to DM this time around lol

Warren Peace

2013-05-10, 01:19 AM

russdm

2013-05-10, 03:57 PM

In my experience, players who know the system better minmax it to make encounters cake walks (IE, Easy as hell). Also, in my experience, players who have DMed that know monster manual(s) will metagame the solutions to problems. IE: "Its a troll? use fire stuff" or "It sounds like an orc, is it an orc?" This problem will get bad with those kind of players. Also, metagaming knowledge can happen, like the player who alreadys the stuff about the monsters, thus mentioning how to take them out.

In my experience, the gentleman's agreement is a load of bumpkis. My players never followed. Also, never let your players get with any crazy stuff, always check your copy of their source and determine what effect it will have before allowing stuff. This goes triple for spellcasters; blowing up their stuff is totally acceptable.

Also, even more important, despite what some may tell you, Tomb of Battle is not overpowered or broken. It is only that way in comparison to straight fighter types. Wizards and Clerics/druids are still overpowered and game breaking.

A parting note, the CR system is infact broken as written and as intended. It was copied almost completely from previous editions with little understanding about how things are supposed to work. Do not expect any of your more experienced players to tell you when you are doing things wrong because that would mean making them work a little harder for stuff.

00dlez

2013-05-10, 04:28 PM

Actually I found what you had to say to be right on the mark and very informative!
Glad it came off okay - I love giving out advice to thise just starting but sometimes my phrasing isn't the best.

The reason I chose Skyrim is because we have all played it.

Also you're right I am scared to death to kill off any of my players, when the going gets tough I start rolling initiative and going last every time of right when I would be able to kill someone I would hold back and attack a player I knew had more LP.

It sounds like you are going working towards what I call in my head "the video game experience". You (meaning you and what I know of the group) are trying to take something you love - Skyrim - and transfer it into a medium where you have control over the game - DnD. You want it to be somewhat challenging, but ultimately are trying to "win", and dying means that you lose. Unlike a video game that you can just reload and keep going, DnD doesn't allow you to do that so easily, so you are pulling punches to avoid the situation.

In my experience new players are like that, dying is some terrible end that makes them look weak and stupid for getting themselves killed when the rest of their friends survived the encounter. There's also sore loser types like you seem to have who will raise hell if they don't get to win.

My suggestion: ease them into it. You all are having fun it seems, start ratcheting up the difficulty and lowering the amount of breaks you allow.

Since you are the most knowledgable, maybe start the process out of game. Say they just slayed a dragon and are reveling in the victory while packing up their books and dice. You might mention that they were lucky that the dragon's breath weapon wasn't ready again and that they should have done X, Y, Z differently or else Bob the Paladin would have died.

But you throw them into the DM chair and they aren't afraid to pit us against things double our level and say good luck you're probably going to die lol. IDK they are a good group of friends but some are way better at making up a story and being a DM than being a player and the difference shows when we all take turns DM'ing.

Kind of backs up my "I'm going to win DnD" Theory. Again, this isn't uncommon amongst newer players I've seen, just try to grin and bear it and hopefully work them closer to convention.

I guess you're right I do need to man up with the challenges I give them stuff I don't make them earn it and that stops now. No more handouts they are going to work for the crap they want lol

There's all sorts of ways to run a campaign, but if you want to break from how things of been, then yeah, you'll have to change the way you play

thethird

2013-05-10, 05:08 PM

Wow there have been quite a few good and helpful responses here. I'm not going to quote anyone and try to add something helpful.

-First of all moving into Skyrim is probably a good move. You know the world, they know the world. It is also quite a front loaded world, people would know what dragons do at first sight, but a mindflayer might be hard to understand to newbies (even if it is a D&D classic). Overall that works. I can remember, our first D&D games at the table build a lot on WOW for setting.

-Second I know that everyone has their style. I personally I am a Chaos of a DM, I understand the rules (pretty well, I think), and I don't plan further than a session. I will probably have some sketches of possible enemies, having things like, hp, attack bonus, damage, etcetera. My personal advice to anyone trying to DM on the matter is, planning might be fun (I have a lot of fun developing the campaign world) but players will always ruin it. They are like elephants in a china shop. They will take your story and tear it apart. You can railroad them (it is not a great thing to do), or you can adapt, if you try to write the story as the players play it it becomes much easier and fun for everyone.

-Third try to avoid DM wars. DM wars aren't fun. Playing two campaigns and DMing one is fun. Or perhaps from time to time shifting the DMs. It lets everyone rest and play.

-The following advice is to build challenging but fun encounters:

+Know your player's characters really well, getting their sheets is the first step.

+Try to build encounters that would defeat the players if the enemies act intelligently. Run the encounter a couple of times using your dummy pcs, making them work coordinately. I will advise for the first of such encounters to be non lethal, for example a group of rogues trying to poison them with sleeping poison and render them unconscious.

+Challenge them, if they act stupidly defeat them.

+Feel free to inform the players, through the evil NPC that captured them or something how easy it was to take them, how if they had worked as a team instead of as a band of misfit heroes wannabes they would have been difficult to defeat. But they were just... stupid. Point the mistakes.

+Then let them roast in a room for a while. Describe the room, give it several features. And let them come up with ideas for an escape. Once they think of something imaginative or something that might work, allow it to work, try some rolls check some ad-hoc DCs and let them feel clever.

+Challenge them again. With a different encounter. They will probably try harder. From there just remember three things, it is fun if everyone has fun, arm races (between players DMs) aren't fun, and ultimately for the story to advance the PCs have to defeat the encounters (even if some of they die in the process).

Overall my advice would be, be less concerned with the idea of being a good DM, or a bad DM, just have fun, if you have fun, and they have fun you are a great DM.