DMs: Animal behaviour is difficult

[Jon_Dahl]

Well... actually animal behaviour is not that difficult, unless you have a a bit of a perfectionist and no biologists in you. But anyway, here's the topic:

How do you handle animal behaviour in your games?
I find it problematic. Let me give you some examples from the past:

#1: A bear in its cave, guarding its offsping. The PCs are able to see it outside the cave, but it can't sense them because of the distance. The PCs begin to shoot at the bear, using arrows and magic. How should the bear react? It has its cubs at its feet, and it's gradually dying and doesn't see any offender.

#2: A dog has an owner and it's 100% loyal to its owner. The dog is commanded to attack a person, but this individual charms the dog. Now the owner attacks the charmer and they fight. What is the dog supposed to do?

#3: Dire wolves are enormous beasts. The smell a pony and line up for an attack. The rider of the pony is a halfling, who steps down, position himself between the dire wolves and his pony, and draws two shortswords. Why would the dire wolves even pay attention to the halfling? It's remarkably smaller than the dire wolves. Why won't the dire wolves simply ignore the halfling and just attack the pony? That's their snack (a very small one) right there!

I have more, but I just want to hear some general guidelines and hints about animal behaviour in fights and such.

[ahenobarbi]

With my bit of knowledge on topic I'd guess:
#1 I don't know about bears much. But probably run (it can carry at least one cub).
#2 Wait while two members of it's pack are fighting for supremacy.
#3 Either they are not really hungry and will look for something less troublesome or they are really hungry and will want to eat halfling too.

[JusticeZero]

#1: Firing a ranged attack gives a - 20 penalty to stealth. Bears have decent Spot checks. Some archer is getting a bear in the face.

#2: Second save. If failed, bark a lot and try to stay between the two.

#3: The halfling is also human shaped, and humans are Cthulhu. They might not be sure what the adventurer is doing, but it is a threat to deal with first.

[Jeff the Green]

#2 Wait while two members of it's pack are fighting for supremacy.

Uh, no. The idea that dogs/wolves fight for supremacy is a myth; this is only when the pack is extremely dysfunctional (usually artificial). Actually, it would probably try to interpose itself between its two packmates to stop the fight. (I've actually seen dogs do this.)

[Zombimode]

#1: A bear in its cave, guarding its offsping. The PCs are able to see it outside the cave, but it can't sense them because of the distance. The PCs begin to shoot at the bear, using arrows and magic. How should the bear react? It has its cubs at its feet, and it's gradually dying and doesn't see any offender.

Probably shielding the cubs with her body. Or storming out of the cave in hope of getting a glimpse of the attacker.



#2: A dog has an owner and it's 100% loyal to its owner. The dog is commanded to attack a person, but this individual charms the dog. Now the owner attacks the charmer and they fight. What is the dog supposed to do?

Probably not much. The dog would very likely not attack its owner (a simple charm will not compel a creature to attack close ones), but it also can't attack the charmer (because the charm prevents this).
Do note that in this case the dog being an animal is not relevant. The situation would be very similar with a humanoid.


#3: Dire wolves are enormous beasts. The smell a pony and line up for an attack. The rider of the pony is a halfling, who steps down, position himself between the dire wolves and his pony, and draws two shortswords. Why would the dire wolves even pay attention to the halfling? It's remarkably smaller than the dire wolves. Why won't the dire wolves simply ignore the halfling and just attack the pony? That's their snack (a very small one) right there!

Because the halfling is in the way. Just rushing past a creature in combat is seldom a good idea because AoO happen (and assuming the dire wolfs have been in a fight they would know this).

Just remember, animals aren't mindless.

[Fouredged Sword]

#1 - bear runs in the direction the arrows come from in an attempt to find and kill the archer. Large bears are alpha predators in their area. They have little flight instinct and a lot of fight instinct. If it still can't find the archer and still gets shot at it keeps going to lure the archer away from the cubs.

#2 - The dog defaults to no actions to attack ether, but a worried inaction. If given a command the dog will attack as commanded (by ether side), and to switch control of the dog to a new command and override the other side is a check with a DC= to the last check (+5 to any roll to order the dog to stand down).

#3 - Overrun action. It attempts to knock the halfling on it's backside and charge past at the pony. It wants the pony to bolt so it can chase it away from the halfling.

[KillianHawkeye]

For #3:

Wolves are pack hunters, team players, etc.

One of them engages the halfling to distract it while the others circle around and get in position to attack the real target. The decoy tries to lure the halfling away before the others attack. If that doesn't work (and if the halfling proves himself to be a threat), the other wolves split and half come to help against the halfling while the rest kill the pony. Note that by this point the halfling and pony are surrounded.

If there are not enough wolves to keep the halfling busy and not sustain losses, the pack will retreat to find easier prey.

[Arc_knight25]

1) I would say rush herself and the cubs further into the cave. If that isn't an option, Waltz on out the front and see what is invading her territory.

2) Dog would be neutral. But as soon as the charmer starts atacking the Owner. I would be giving that dog another save v.s charm with the +5 since the situation has changed.

3) Halfling is done. Same with the pony. Just go as far as Beauty and the Beast when Belle gets attacked by the wolves when she is on horseback. They go for her and the horse.(Is it sad that that is my exapmle?)

Bring on the next scenarios.

[Fouredged Sword]

#3 - Better yet, the dire wolves have trip. One charges the halfling and trips him. The next charges past to trip the pony. The third wolf goes for anything putting up a fight after both are tripped. All the prey is on the ground and being mauld. The wolves have a snack with their pony dinner.

[KillianHawkeye]

#3 - Better yet, the dire wolves have trip. One charges the halfling and trips him. The next charges past to trip the pony. The third wolf goes for anything putting up a fight after both are tripped. All the prey is on the ground and being mauld. The wolves have a snack with their pony dinner.

Yeah, dire wolves are Large. A halfling stands almost no chance of resisting the trip attack except by being unhittable.

[Jon_Dahl]

Bring on the next scenarios.

Yes, of course!

#4: A well-trained dog is tracking using its scent. The tracked creature uses shape-chancing abilities while fleeing. Because of this, its scent changes. How will the dog react?

#5: 11 dire wolves are attacking four gnomes. The gnomes possess significant fighting skills and slay six dire wolves without any losses. The other five are still unharmed, but soon they will be slain if they remain there. Will the wolves understand the situation and escape, or will they see that they still outnumber the much smaller creatures and continue attacking? In general: Do animals react to the change of numbers during the fight, or do they simply think how well they are personally doing?

#6: A heavy warhorse and its rider fight against an opponent. The opponent kills the rider and turns to escape. Will the warhorse pursue? What if the rider has fallen to the ground? Will it leave its master and pursue?

[Spuddles]

In real life, if you shoot a bear a quarter mile away, it will get up and take off running, then find some place to nurse its wounds.

I suspect the bear would simply retreat deeper into its cave with its cubs if it doesn't see where the attacks are coming from.

[PersonMan]

#4: Probably get confused, because the scent it's tracking isn't there anymore.

#5: The wolves would probably back off as soon as one of theirs went down. Injured wolves would probably pull back to let a healthy one keep attacking.

#6: IIRC, heavy warhorses are trained to respond to ankle/knee/whatever commands. If those are gone, it probably either stops moving or leaves, depending on its training.

[Fouredged Sword]

#4 - Dogs are trained to account for changes in scent when tracking. They are actually very smart and can be trained to account for all manner of unexpected changes. The Dog pauses and takes a few circles around each point of change, then follows the scent again. -2 to it's survival check to track, but no more.

#5 - The wolves probably take off the first one to get seriously injured. This depends on what they are doing though. Rule one of animals is to survive. For wolves this means that your prey should be running. If prey doesn't run, it isn't prey. When fighting a target that they can't get on the ground in more than a round or two and is slower than them, they run off for easier targets. If the tides of battle turn suddenly and several pack members die, they bolt. Wolves are VERY aware of their pack mates and their situation, and normally take very few risks. They are not adventurers, but careful hunters.

That said, you get in the wrong situation and a wolf pack decides that you need to die at all costs (cubs, grieving pack members, starvation of the pack), and they will blitz you and not stop.

#6 - The warhorse is trained to react in a particular way to a unresponsive rider. If the rider is unseated the horse will likely give short chase (10-15ft) to a retreating foe, placing itself between the attacker and it's master. Then it will return to the master and wait to be mounted. When the rider fails to mount the horse will eventually go to it's stable, or back to the closest civilization. If the rider is NOT unseated, the horse will stand still and await commands, letting the attacker escape. The horse will then stand and await command for a while, and if the rider is unresponsive, the horse will walk back to it's stable or the closest civilization, carrying the rider.

[KillianHawkeye]

For #4, changing shape will probably confuse it unless the dog is specifically trained to track shapechangers. However, if their is a handler nearby who knows enough about the quarry, he may be able to figure out what happened and get the dog to track the brand new scent he's just picked up.



For #5, I'm pretty sure the wolves wouldn't even stick around until half of them were dead unless it happened too fast for them to react. Wolves are pack hunters. That means they have to actually pay attention to the welfare of the entire group, not just how they are doing individually. Animals only tend to pursue prey that is easy to get. If any gnome can kill even one dire wolf, the rest of the pack will look elsewhere for tonight's dinner unless they are desperately hungry. Desperation, of course, changes everything.



For #6, a horse will absolutely not chase after an opponent without a rider's command because it doesn't understand the need to do so. A horse that is trained for combat is basically being trained for two things: to follow its rider's commands and to not get panicked by the chaos of battle. It will still seek safety if it senses danger when left to its own decision-making processes.

I would also wager that most war horses are trained to take limp riders away from the battlefield on the off chance that the rider gets knocked unconscious without being killed.



EDIT: I just wanted to add that this is a really interesting thread. I await the next set of scenarios.

[ahenobarbi]

Uh, no. The idea that dogs/wolves fight for supremacy is a myth; this is only when the pack is extremely dysfunctional (usually artificial). Actually, it would probably try to interpose itself between its two packmates to stop the fight. (I've actually seen dogs do this.)

I assumed it was some kind of trained-for-fighting do (since question has d&d context) but looking at OP there is nothing to back my assumption.

[yougi]

If I DM'd (and I'm not a zoologist or anything):

4) The dog would be confused, and unless trained specifically for this, would probably not get that the two scents are related.

5) I love the "If prey doesn't run, it's not prey" line. Animals live in survival mode, and understand that every action has a cost (in energy, and sometimes in wounds/losses) and a reward. If the reward seems to not be worth the cost, they'd flee rather than stay.

6) The horse would stay with its master, particularly if the two are close. If the master was still on the horse's back, it could possibly lead it in a safer place.

[Chronos]

The charmed-dog one can be treated analogously to a charmed-person, for which there are clear rules. From the text of Charm Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm):


This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

So, an opposed Cha check, plus the difficulties of not knowing a common language.

[Jeff the Green]

Yes, of course!

#4: A well-trained dog is tracking using its scent. The tracked creature uses shape-chancing abilities while fleeing. Because of this, its scent changes. How will the dog react?

Probably the same as if the trail had just ended, unless it was specifically trained to track shapechangers (which may or may not be possible).


#5: 11 dire wolves are attacking four gnomes. The gnomes possess significant fighting skills and slay six dire wolves without any losses. The other five are still unharmed, but soon they will be slain if they remain there. Will the wolves understand the situation and escape, or will they see that they still outnumber the much smaller creatures and continue attacking? In general: Do animals react to the change of numbers during the fight, or do they simply think how well they are personally doing?

In specific, the dire wolves would probably flee once one or more are killed. In general, this only applies to pack/herd animals. A bear and a cougar that just happen to be fighting you at the same time wouldn't react to the other's death.


#6: A heavy warhorse and its rider fight against an opponent. The opponent kills the rider and turns to escape. Will the warhorse pursue? What if the rider has fallen to the ground? Will it leave its master and pursue?

Depends on its training. Most would be trained to carry the rider to safety or interpose itself between danger and a fallen rider.


For wolves this means that your prey should be running. If prey doesn't run, it isn't prey. When fighting a target that they can't get on the ground in more than a round or two and is slower than them, they run off for easier targets.

This is not necessarily true. There are several prey animals (muskoxen, moose, giraffes, etc.) that are more likely to fight than run, either because they can usually kill or disable predators or because they're bad at running. They're still predated upon by canny wolves, hyenas, lions, and wild dogs.

[Fouredged Sword]

This is not necessarily true. There are several prey animals (muskoxen, moose, giraffes, etc.) that are more likely to fight than run, either because they can usually kill or disable predators or because they're bad at running. They're still predated upon by canny wolves, hyenas, lions, and wild dogs.

I agree with this. There are no hard and fast rules for what animal does what at any given moment. Animals are more complex than most people are aware of. They have a wide range of motivations. They have two things that generally mark them as different than people. Animals lack complex language, and they lack introspection. The have complex motivations, but won't question their own motivations. That have complex feelings, but cannot express them past body language.

Animals learn and know things. Lion's don't hunt elephants. Except there is one pride that does, because they learned how to make it work. It is important to decide what the motivation of the animal is, and what it's understanding of the situation is. Unless pressed an animal will be hesitant to preform any action with risk that is new to them.

[TheTinyMan]

#1: I'd say that the bear would charge in the direction of the attack for a round or two - and then, if it still can't find its attacker or gets significantly injured, try to run away and lure its attackers away from its cubs.

#2: Here's one I have some experience with: I've had several dogs that, when they saw me wrestling with a family member or something, would try to nonlethally grapple the perceived aggressor, or interpose itself between us and try to keep itself apart.

#3: Have these dire wolves encountered adventurers before? If not, I imagine that they'd consider the halfling a combatant from his attitude and wouldn't, say, provoke attacks of opportunity from him, but would probably focus on crippling their prey before defeating the halfling, until the halfling demonstrates that he's a significant threat. Which, of course, may be before the wolves get anywhere near the pony.

#4: That's gonna be DM fiat to some degree - is there an aspect of the scent that remains identifiable, or is it completely different? If I were running that, I'd say that the scent is 90% changed but a dog specially trained in tracking shapeshifters (maybe it has a trick just for this) could make a new check.

#5: The wolves would understand the situation and flee. Animals have a much stronger grasp of basic tactics than most people would guess.

#6: This is complicated by the fact that this is a "warhorse" - a horse trained for battle. It's going to depend specifically on its training, and on the bond between the horse and the rider. If the rider considers the horse an inventory item, then the horse will probably flee, or even simply stop fighting. If the rider and horse have fought aggressively in battles together, including when the rider isn't mounted, then I imagine that the horse would fight aggressively. If they have a close-knit relationship not focused entirely on killing their foes, then I would expect that the horse would try to bring the dead rider back to safety regardless of risk.



-looks around-
Hi, guys, I'm new here, and this thread struck me as interesting enough to sign up to reply to! :-D

[JusticeZero]

Predators of all kinds arent looking for 'good fights'. They are looking for prey. If they can't wtfpwn it at little risk to themselves, they don't want anything to do with it.

[Jeff the Green]

If they can't wtfpwn it at little risk to themselves, they don't want anything to do with it.

Plenty of predators are willing to go after things that pose a significant risk to them, and all of them are willing to go after ones they have a significant chance of not catching, because that basically includes everything. It's a matter of risk vs. reward.

[Fouredged Sword]

But note that, most times than not, when a predator goes for prey it fails. Both the prey and the predator walk away without serious injury.

Yes, predators go after prey that can take them on, and yes, predators go after prey that can get away, but no, generally if the prey looks like it WILL hurt them they turn and run.

Loosing a hunt to an escaped prey costs the energy of running after it. Loosing a hunt to an injury cost loosing the next couple of hunts.

[SuperPanda]

New to the thread, chiming in with how I'd DM the Critters:

#1) Her cubs are in danger.

I'd have the bear charge out of the cave in the direction of the incoming attacks. Honestly though, her cubs are in danger... I'd have the bear enter Barbarian Rage and fight to the death focusing first on whoever is attacking it and then anyone who goes near the cave. *DM: Disclaimer. The note on Rage above assumes that the players knew this was a mother bear and that they were placing her cubs in danger... while I think that behavior lines up right without the Rage mechanics, I'd throw Rage into the mix if the players had some degree of warning about her cubs.*

#2) This is tricky, it would probably depend on how smart the dog was. Dogs do play-fight alot an if I was playing up the partially insane domestic dog angle I could have the charmed dog not realize it wasn't a play-fight until someone got hurt. Most likely though I'd have the dog bark and carry on and get in the middle of the two. Any threatening move towards the dog breaks the charm and that would make it very difficult for the charmer to fight the master while the dog tries to play with them both. - This would be a case of the dog being too dumb to fool :)

#3) Depends on how many dire-wolves there are and how much experience this pack has with humanoids. A battle-tested alpha might recognize the glint of metal and know that it means pain. At the same time, the dire-wolves have pretty good odds against something halfling sized, and the halfling is keeping the pony near by. If this is their first experience with humanoids they would attack and then pull back when they felt the bite of metal (assuming they hadn't already stated nom-noming of Frodo).

#4) I'm not sure I'd have the smells change that drastically on a shape-changer. Dogs have incredible noses, far beyond anything we humans can imagine, and shape-changing is almost certainly not instantaneous, and even if it was there would be a mingling of the two smells. The dog would probably bark and circle a couple times to make sure it was right, but I'd have it keep the trail if shape-changing was the only trick used to avoid scent.

#5) I'm not sure I'd take it as far as a fully dropped wolf, it depends on the pack's circumstances. The gnomes look like food, but they fight back and that fighting back hurts. If the wolfs weren't trading blows they'd back off. If they are trading blows then they should be tripping, and like the half-ling from before if they're getting the gnomes on their backs then the wolves have the upper paw and will gnome body over for dinner.

#6) The horse wouldn't follow, but I'd probably have it clear out of immediate danger. If it isn't being threatened it will wait around for its rider, if it is being threatened it will back way until the threat stops. Depending on its training it might start walking home after a period of time.

[Ashtagon]

#1: A bear in its cave, guarding its offsping. The PCs are able to see it outside the cave, but it can't sense them because of the distance. The PCs begin to shoot at the bear, using arrows and magic. How should the bear react? It has its cubs at its feet, and it's gradually dying and doesn't see any offender.


Unless the bear is blind (how?), if the PCs can see the bear, the bear can see the PCs. If it hadn't already charged out to threaten away the strange creatures approaching its cubs, it certainly would once the PCs begin attacking.



#2: A dog has an owner and it's 100% loyal to its owner. The dog is commanded to attack a person, but this individual charms the dog. Now the owner attacks the charmer and they fight. What is the dog supposed to do?


Same thing a human would: be confused over why its two friends are fighting each other. Possibly dart between the two trying to grab one or the other's attention.



#3: Dire wolves are enormous beasts. The smell a pony and line up for an attack. The rider of the pony is a halfling, who steps down, position himself between the dire wolves and his pony, and draws two shortswords. Why would the dire wolves even pay attention to the halfling? It's remarkably smaller than the dire wolves. Why won't the dire wolves simply ignore the halfling and just attack the pony? That's their snack (a very small one) right there!

Dire wolves know enough that if an animal is facing them and standing its ground, it probably intends to fight. Which means that it probably intends to be a threat. Fighting the threat comes before feeding; safety before food.


#4: A well-trained dog is tracking using its scent. The tracked creature uses shape-chancing abilities while fleeing. Because of this, its scent changes. How will the dog react?


He loses the scent. If the PCs handling the dog know the prey had polymorph magic, they might think to direct the dog to begin tracking the new scent. The dog probably has no way to tell the PCs about this new scent.

However, if the polymorph magic doesn't also affect the clothing, the old scent may remain on those and still be trackable, though at a penalty.


#5: 11 dire wolves are attacking four gnomes. The gnomes possess significant fighting skills and slay six dire wolves without any losses. The other five are still unharmed, but soon they will be slain if they remain there. Will the wolves understand the situation and escape, or will they see that they still outnumber the much smaller creatures and continue attacking? In general: Do animals react to the change of numbers during the fight, or do they simply think how well they are personally doing?


They'd almost certainly flee at that point.

fwiw, older D&D versions forced morale checks when the first member of a group died, and when half of that group died (or 1st hit and 50% hp for single creatures). Morale checks varied by creature type, but animals typically had a 50% chance of passing this check, higher for intelligent creatures, and all creatures could choose to flee if common sense dictated.



#6: A heavy warhorse and its rider fight against an opponent. The opponent kills the rider and turns to escape. Will the warhorse pursue? What if the rider has fallen to the ground? Will it leave its master and pursue?

Depends on what the horse has been pre-trained to do in this situation. Some may be trained to flee to a campsite (most likely a particularly eye-catching tent that the horse has been trained to recognise). Some might be trained to guard their master. Some might be trained to chase. And of course, some may just lain panic.

Basically, this boils down to "what was the horse trained to do?"