Gestalt: Barbarian and Paladin?

[gurgleflep]

Heya folks! How well would a barbarian/paladin gestalt work?
I know both classes bring some good stuff to the combination: rage, saves, BAB, smite... You get the idea.
The two classes have differing alignments, so I'm confused as to whether or not this would work. Would it be better to use one of the class variants on it?

[danzibr]

Heya folks! How well would a barbarian/paladin gestalt work?
I know both classes bring some good stuff to the combination: rage, saves, BAB, smite... You get the idea.
The two classes have differing alignments, so I'm confused as to whether or not this would work. Would it be better to use one of the class variants on it?
Get around the alignment problem with Paladin of Freedom (as you said).

I have to admit this is a really neat if not optimal idea.

[gurgleflep]

Get around the alignment problem with Paladin of Freedom (as you said).

I have to admit this is a really neat if not optimal idea.

I'm not going for optimal, just for fun :smallsmile:
We (as a group) are doing the oddest combinations we can think of. I believe we have a druid/dread necromancer in there somewhere.

[Ramza00]

Play a rage cleric instead of barbarian?

[gurgleflep]

Play a rage cleric instead of barbarian?

That's a barbarian/cleric, right? This also sounds like a fun one :smallsmile:
You're a sneak, you just added the "of barbarian" :smalltongue: I've not heard of it, but I take it it's a variant of the cleric?

[WhatBigTeeth]

Champion of Gwynharwyff is already very similar to a Barbarian/Paladin gestalt on its own, not to mention that both classes are already very front-loaded.

I'd almost be tempted to compress the whole combo onto one side (say Barb 2/Paladin of Freedom 4/CoG 10/Hellreaver 4 with some ACF replacing divine grace), and throw something with complementary abilities on the other - preferably scaling complementary abilities like spells, maneuvers, psionics, soulmelds or soulbinds.

[Telonius]

It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't really sound like too good of a gestalt, mechanically. Paladin and Barbarian have the same saves, skill points only increases by two, during a Rage you've negated Paladin spellcasting and (probably) Lay On Hands, Turn Undead, and a couple of the other Paladin abilities. Fast Movement would be negated if you use any of the Paladin's heavy armor.

It's been a while since I've looked at it, but Champion of Gwynsomethingorother, from Book of Exalted Deeds, might do it better on just one side of the Gestalt.

[gurgleflep]

Champion of Gwynharwyff is already very similar to a Barbarian/Paladin gestalt on its own, not to mention that both classes are already very front-loaded.

I'd almost be tempted to compress the whole combo onto one side (say Barb 2/Paladin of Freedom 4/CoG 10/Hellreaver 4 with some ACF replacing divine grace), and throw something with complementary abilities on the other - preferably scaling complementary abilities like spells, maneuvers, psionics, soulmelds or soulbinds.

What's a hellreaver? :smallconfused: I've not heard of it before now.


It's an interesting idea, but it doesn't really sound like too good of a gestalt, mechanically. Paladin and Barbarian have the same saves, skill points only increases by two, during a Rage you've negated Paladin spellcasting and (probably) Lay On Hands, Turn Undead, and a couple of the other Paladin abilities. Fast Movement would be negated if you use any of the Paladin's heavy armor.

It's been a while since I've looked at it, but Champion of Gwynsomethingorother, from Book of Exalted Deeds, might do it better on just one side of the Gestalt.

This isn't a serious campaign, more of a lets just muck around thing (with a story!), so it not being good mechanically doesn't bother me :smallsmile: I like the Champion of Gwyn-*cough cough* though.
Also, I've got to know: what's your avatar from? I feel I've seen it before.

[soveliss24]

Hellreaver's from Fiendish Codex 2, it's a prestige class that uses "Holy Fury" points to power some healing and smiting abilities.

And the avatar is from the movie "The Last Unicorn", I think.

[gorfnab]

What's a hellreaver? :smallconfused: I've not heard of it before now.

Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells - page 92

Edit: Ninja'd

[gurgleflep]

Hellreaver's from Fiendish Codex 2, it's a prestige class that uses "Holy Fury" points to power some healing and smiting abilities.

And the avatar is from the movie "The Last Unicorn", I think.


Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells - page 92

Thank you both for giving me the book (and an idea of what it does :smallsmile:)
And thank you soveliss24 for telling me what it's from, that was bugging me more than it should have :smalleek:

[soveliss24]

My first ninja! I'm so proud.

You had the page number though, I was just remembering the gist of the class. AFB at the moment.

[WhatBigTeeth]

What's a hellreaver? :smallconfused: I've not heard of it before now.
It's a sort of general-purpose class in the fiendish codex 2 for charismatic good-aligned melee characters.

It has easy prerequisites (Power Attack and having killed a devil), and gives lots of minor useful abilities like swift healing, numerical boosts to attacks/saves/AC, Mettle at level 4 and dimension-anchoring melee attacks at level 6.

I just threw it in the build for filler, but I think it's complementary enough with the other classes that it sets a reasonably high bar for whatever's going to take the build's 4 last levels.

[Ramza00]

That's a barbarian/cleric, right? This also sounds like a fun one :smallsmile:
You're a sneak, you just added the "of barbarian" :smalltongue: I've not heard of it, but I take it it's a variant of the cleric?

It is a variant of cleric that

Gives Up

Medium, Heavy Armors
Domain Access
Turn Undead


Gains

Rages as a barbarian, increases in number of day as a barbarian
Greater Rage as a barbarian
Indomitable Will as a barbarian
Tireless Rage as a barbarian
Mighty Rage as a barbarian

[Ramza00]

Reason to go Rage Cleric instead of Barbarian for one side of gestalt

Lose

d12 Hit Dice
4+ Skills
Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense
Damage Reduction


Gain

d10 Hit Dice (big whoop you have 1 less HP for each HD)
2+ Skills (Many Spells can give you bonuses to skills far greater than your lost skill points)
Good Will Save (on top of Cha to Saves, or Wis to Saves with Serenity feat)
9th Level Spells (which you can't use during raging)

[Telonius]

Thank you both for giving me the book (and an idea of what it does :smallsmile:)
And thank you soveliss24 for telling me what it's from, that was bugging me more than it should have :smalleek:

Yep, Schmendrick the Magician, last of the red-hot swamis. :smallbiggrin:

[gurgleflep]

It is a variant of cleric that

Gives Up

Medium, Heavy Armors
Domain Access
Turn Undead


Gains

Rages as a barbarian, increases in number of day as a barbarian
Greater Rage as a barbarian
Indomitable Will as a barbarian
Tireless Rage as a barbarian
Mighty Rage as a barbarian

Reason to go Rage Cleric instead of Barbarian for one side of gestalt

Lose

d12 Hit Dice
4+ Skills
Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense
Damage Reduction


Gain

d10 Hit Dice (big whoop you have 1 less HP for each HD)
2+ Skills (Many Spells can give you bonuses to skills far greater than your lost skill points)
Good Will Save (on top of Cha to Saves, or Wis to Saves with Serenity feat)
9th Level Spells (which you can't use during raging)



This actually seems pretty cool, but it is a gestalt campaign. Would it gestalt well with the paladin, or would it be better to swap that out for another of the gods-only-know how many classes?


Yep, Schmendrick the Magician, last of the red-hot swamis. :smallbiggrin:

I've got to get my hands on that movie, it sounds pretty cool.

[Ramza00]

This actually seems pretty cool, but it is a gestalt campaign. Would it gestalt well with the paladin, or would it be better to swap that out for another of the gods-only-know how many classes?

If you must have a rage character it gestalts real well and is one of the best options for what you are asking. It would synergize real well with a paladin.

It is not the optimal gestalt though, optimal gestalt always needs more spellcasting and needs more action granters

[gurgleflep]

If you must have a rage character it gestalts real well and is one of the best options for what you are asking. It would synergize real well with a paladin.

It is not the optimal gestalt though, optimal gestalt always needs more spellcasting and needs more action granters

As I've said before, it's just for fun, we aren't trying to make our characters the absolute best combinations, just fun ones :smallsmile:

[Ramza00]

As I've said before, it's just for fun, we aren't trying to make our characters the absolute best combinations, just fun ones :smallsmile:
I understand, I am just trying to suggest a character who would play the exact same but has a better character sheet.

You could play this "barbarian" // paladin as a person who is normally all serenity, peace, honor, etc until your really pissed him/her off and he says :censored: it and enters a rage.

Think about what would be your rage button.

[Fouredged Sword]

Half-orc paragon can add rage to any build with a three level dip. Good if you are going paladin 20 / Half orc paragon 3 / Fighter (zeriphem dungeoncrasher) 6 / orc paragon 3 / Something X (there is a complete warrior class that adds to charisma as a tribal leader, I can't remember the name...)

[gurgleflep]

I understand, I am just trying to suggest a character who would play the exact same but has a better character sheet.

You could play this "barbarian" // paladin as a person who is normally all serenity, peace, honor, etc until your really pissed him/her off and he says :censored: it and enters a rage.

Think about what would be your rage button.

Oooh, a roleplay suggestion! :smallbiggrin:
This is gonna be fun, thank you!

[Fouredged Sword]

Also, there is a LN paladin varient somewhere. One could go Paladin 20 / Druidic avenger 20.

[gurgleflep]

Also, there is a LN paladin varient somewhere. One could go Paladin 20 / Druidic avenger 20.

What's the variant called? I know of the Paladin of Freedom and Tyranny, but none other than them.

[Fouredged Sword]

I can't remember, but it was buried in one of the dragon mags.

[Gereo]

Grab the "Paladins without spells" ACF from CW or dip rage mage (otherwise abysmal but fits your concept), love this holy rager concept. Consider hellbred from FCII for a race.

[Prime32]

While barbarian and paladin don't make a great combo, there's a pair of feats which could improve it a little. Battle Blessing (Complete Champion) makes all paladin spells a swift action. Rage Casting (Dragon 310) lets you use magic items and swift action spells while raging.

You can then use the Sword of the Arcane Order feat and Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels (both in Champions of Valor) to improve your spellcasting abilities.

EDIT: Races of Destiny lets half-orc paladins trade Smite Evil for Righteous Fury - it's basically a weaker version of rage which doesn't affect your concentration, and its effects stack with those of rage. They can also remove fatigue instead of disease, which synergises with rage as well.

[Acanous]

Hellbred will make your Paladin count as good and evil, whichever is beneficial.
There's a feat from one of the Fiendish Codex books, an Abyssal Heritor feat, Ordered Chaos. Grab that and you count as lawful and chaotic, whichever is beneficial.

You can now be a Paladin/Barbarian and enjoy never being subject to a smite, immunity to most of the No-Save-Just-Die spells, and you get crazy roleplay going on as well.

[DMVerdandi]

Maybe I am just too much of a power gamer, but why does this even seem fun???

Even thematically it just doesn't sound right. I mean you could play it straight, but it just seems gimicky to me. "WOAH, THE ALIGNMENTS DON'T MATCH! HOP ON THE CRAYYYZY TRAIN".

Eh, I don't get it.

You know the alignments don't match. And even worse, Paladin in itself is just not an optimized choice. It's a sub-par class. Even worse, It can be done better with other classes right there in the PHB, but you don't want to "for teh lulz".

My answer?
Barbarian/Cleric. I would suggest the cleric over a barbarian anyway. It's not for the sake of being overpowered. It's for the sake of having ease of play. You can finish more challenges, be more helpful to your group, and pound for pound, kick more a$$.

Smite is mechanically weak. And not only that, but Clerics have the ability to smite, so choosing a paladin for that reason is bad. Clerics heal better, Cast better, and with 2 spells, fight WAY better.

They don't need saves as much, they don't need a horse AT ALL (Phantom steed), and a whole other bunch of things.

Moreover, charisma has the least combat applications of all the Abilities.
With wisdom, you can get intuitive attack, which gives you WIS to attack.



The problem with Paladin/Barbarian is that it is spread too thin without any recourse. They get spells late in the game, they are kind of MAD, and their class abilities are weak. And then you get into the Code of conduct, which is COMPLETELY RESTRICTING.


Build yourself a Barbarian/ Cleric of whatever you want, Roll up in full plate, be a total knight, and flip your wig whenever you feel like it. Play Lancelot if you want. but don't sacrifice your survivability for a silly gimick that everyone else at the table is going to forget by the next game.

Roleplay for shenanigans. Do funny stuff. Be a wild man and a noble at the same time. You can be sir kay with a cleric mechanically.

From your perspective you can with a Paladin/barbarian as well, BUT, you are more likely to not be able to use your abilities at the same time , not have abilities that scale with the challenge rating, and have a horse for no darn reason.


Persistant buffing +Rage = Rage of the gods.

Rant over. No disrespect. I just... think paladins are worthless.:smallmad:
Cleric's better.:smallannoyed:
You have freedom to play whatever kind of holy knight you want. Lawful, chaotic, evil, good, neutral, whatever tickles your fancy. And of any domain you wish if you aren't worshiping a god.

Paladin does not afford that same freedom.
Just remember, if your character dies, you can't have fun. Optimizing is for success at playing a concept , not munchkinism.

If you didn't care, you could play a commoner/warrior, scream in battle, and act like nobility, and be as weak as possible.

[gurgleflep]

You all have helped me out quite a bit, thank you all! :smallbiggrin:
I didn't know of any of those feats before now, and I appreciate all your suggestions.

Also, I like the comment before mine's lengthy opinion on it. It gives me another view on the whole thing :smallsmile:

[Waker]

Uh oh, here comes Waker to gab about Incarnum again.

You might consider replacing Paladin with Incarnate or maybe even Soulborn (don't do it, it's a trick). Incarnate would give you a good Will save, a few extra skills and access to a bunch of powers that wouldn't be hindered by going into a rage. Not to mention that their "casting" stat is Con, nearly everything they grant is passive and you can choose which alignment you want, rather than being locked into LG without a variant. While Chaotic isn't the best alignment for Incarnates, the Incarnate Weapon Bind for Chaotic is a battleaxe, meaning you always have access to a weapon. Just pull it out of thin air.
Incarnum will let you "be magic" without having access to gamebreaking powers, since most of the melds are about granting you bonuses to skills, immunities or movement types.
The fluff is simple for a Barbarian//Incarnate. You are raw, unbridled chaos.

[gurgleflep]

Uh oh, here comes Waker to gab about Incarnum again.

You might consider replacing Paladin with Incarnate or maybe even Soulborn (don't do it, it's a trick). Incarnate would give you a good Will save, a few extra skills and access to a bunch of powers that wouldn't be hindered by going into a rage. Not to mention that their "casting" stat is Con, nearly everything they grant is passive and you can choose which alignment you want, rather than being locked into LG without a variant. While Chaotic isn't the best alignment for Incarnates, the Incarnate Weapon Bind for Chaotic is a battleaxe, meaning you always have access to a weapon. Just pull it out of thin air.
Incarnum will let you "be magic" without having access to gamebreaking powers, since most of the melds are about granting you bonuses to skills, immunities or movement types.
The fluff is simple for a Barbarian//Incarnate. You are raw, unbridled chaos.

May I inquire as to which books/magazines I could find these two classes in?

[Waker]

Both the Incarnate and Soulborn are classes presented in the Magic of Incarnum, which utilizes a new subsystem of "magic." Links discussing it, here and here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6920.0). If you have any questions, just ask. I'm one of the big incarnum fans around here.

I'm also ashamed of myself for forgetting to include the obligatory Crusader suggestion in place of Paladin. Same flavor, less alignment restrictions and the majority of maneuvers work with Rage. Plus the idea of a furious berserker who heals himself when he hits others is delightful. Crusader is a class from Tome of Battle.

[gurgleflep]

Both the Incarnate and Soulborn are classes presented in the Magic of Incarnum, which utilizes a new subsystem of "magic." Links discussing it, here and here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6920.0). If you have any questions, just ask. I'm one of the big incarnum fans around here.

I'm also ashamed of myself for forgetting to include the obligatory Crusader suggestion in place of Paladin. Same flavor, less alignment restrictions and the majority of maneuvers work with Rage. Plus the idea of a furious berserker who heals himself when he hits others is delightful. Crusader is a class from Tome of Battle.

With the name "Incarnate," I feel I should have known it was in Magic of Incarnum.
I'll begin reading the links now, thank you.

I know the Crusader quite well, I fell in love with the idea behind it after first having read it. :smallsmile:

[DMVerdandi]

With the name "Incarnate," I feel I should have known it was in Magic of Incarnum.
I'll begin reading the links now, thank you.

I know the Crusader quite well, I fell in love with the idea behind it after first having read it. :smallsmile:

Now, crusader is a sweet class to gestalt :smallbiggrin:
Crusader/barbarian is just friggin awesome. I could imagine it being like order of the cross esque, drinking heavily, wading into battle, and being totally debaucherous to learn some higher mysteries.

templars... wicked cool:smallcool:

[gurgleflep]

Now, crusader is a sweet class to gestalt :smallbiggrin:
Crusader/barbarian is just friggin awesome. I could imagine it being like order of the cross esque, drinking heavily, wading into battle, and being totally debaucherous to learn some higher mysteries.

templars... wicked cool:smallcool:

This sounds more fun than I had previously anticipated :smallbiggrin:
Are there any particular feats I should take? I tend to only use the Players Handbook ones, so I know very few outside of it.

[Fouredged Sword]

Stone power and the crusader delay damage pool lets you effectively ignore 5 points of damage a turn.

[gurgleflep]

Stone power and the crusader delay damage pool lets you effectively ignore 5 points of damage a turn.

Would this stack with the damage reduction of the barbarian?

[Fouredged Sword]

It's not damage reduction. Stone power acts like power attack (and can be used in it's place to qualify for stuff) but instead of getting extra damage, you get temp HP that last for one round. This is good if you know you are about to take damage.

A crusader can delay damage. This means that a crusader can put off taking damage until the end of his turn.

So, if a crusader takes a hit, he can delay the damage until AFTER he gets a chance to activate stone power and get from cheep temp HP to soak the damage.

This actually works even better with DR, because if you take a number of light hits that get reduced by your DR, you can tally the remaining damage and roll it into your delay pool for later nullification.

Though, if you like DR, look up the roll with it feat. 2/- that stacks with any DR. It's from savage species, and you have to take toughness, but still. Take it a few times (it stacks with itself).

Then mix in a little healing from a devoted spirit stance, and you are one tough cookie all the way though mid levels.

[gurgleflep]

It's not damage reduction. Stone power acts like power attack (and can be used in it's place to qualify for stuff) but instead of getting extra damage, you get temp HP that last for one round. This is good if you know you are about to take damage.

A crusader can delay damage. This means that a crusader can put off taking damage until the end of his turn.

So, if a crusader takes a hit, he can delay the damage until AFTER he gets a chance to activate stone power and get from cheep temp HP to soak the damage.

This actually works even better with DR, because if you take a number of light hits that get reduced by your DR, you can tally the remaining damage and roll it into your delay pool for later nullification.

Though, if you like DR, look up the roll with it feat. 2/- that stacks with any DR. It's from savage species, and you have to take toughness, but still. Take it a few times (it stacks with itself).

Then mix in a little healing from a devoted spirit stance, and you are one tough cookie all the way though mid levels.

This sounds pretty stinkin' awesome. Something tells me that I'm going to be a great tank-thing :smallbiggrin: Thank you for the suggestions!

[Fouredged Sword]

A good class mix would be

Water orc
Crusader 20 / Barbarian 1 / Orc paragon 3 / Barbarian X / Rune scared berserker X (or other barbarian PRC)

Now you start with
Con 18(+2 racial)>Str>dex>cha>int>wis

Orc paragon gets you no light sensitivity and +2 strength over 3 levels. Not bad.

Feats
1st - Toughness
3rd - Stone Power
6th - Roll with it
9th - Roll with it
...
...

Just keep stacking DR/-. Pick up some nice energy resistance and you are good to go.

Another option would be Barbarian 1 / orc paragon 3 / Incarnate x / Ironsoul forge master X / Incarnate x

This gets you a large amount of always on energy resistance and the ability to make your own magic weapons and armor, +you can pick up some really nice incarnate soulmelds.

[Waker]

A good class mix would be

Water orc
Crusader 20 / Barbarian 1 / Orc paragon 3 / Barbarian X / Rune scared berserker X (or other barbarian PRC)

Now you start with
Con 18(+2 racial)>Str>dex>cha>int>wis

Orc paragon gets you no light sensitivity and +2 strength over 3 levels. Not bad.

Feats
1st - Toughness
3rd - Stone Power
6th - Roll with it
9th - Roll with it
...
...

Just keep stacking DR/-. Pick up some nice energy resistance and you are good to go.

Another option would be Barbarian 1 / orc paragon 3 / Incarnate x / Ironsoul forge master X / Incarnate x

This gets you a large amount of always on energy resistance and the ability to make your own magic weapons and armor, +you can pick up some really nice incarnate soulmelds.

This man makes some good suggestions. Note that you can mix Incarnate and Crusader together since ToB and Incarnum both multiclass so well. One thing to note though is that Ironsoul Forgemaster requires you to be a Dwarf, so his second build would need some tweaks.

[Fouredged Sword]

Posting without looking through everything, sorry for any bad build setups. Please review any build you see online before placing in a game.

The +2 con starting is what is important, as roll with it takes a 20 con. A human would have to wait until level 9 to take it normally.

Replace Orc paragon with Dwarf paragon.

You can now spread your stats around more... say

Con 16(racial+2)>str>int>dex>wis>cha

Let the racial paragon's +2 con take you over the 20 limit in time for roll with it as your 6th level feat. +1 to all saves vs magic is also a nice boost.

Looking at it, it is a nice racial paragon class... I will have to work it into a build I play at some point. It fills in three early dead levels in main melee before a PRC nicely. Maybe a fighter 2 / dwarf paragon 3 / something X at some point...

With thief's gloves you will be a powerful trap finder for any area made of stone, with autochecks out to 20ft.

Be sure to save money by crafting your own metal arms and armor. Ask your DM how the dwarven ability of not getting having your speed decreased by wearing armor plays with increased speed class features that are turned off by heavy armor. That first level of barbarian MAY allow you to move 30ft a round in heavy armor.

[Waker]

Alternatively if you are in love with the idea of Orc and still want the Forgemaster class, you could take the Stoneblessed PrC from Races of Stone to qualify. And of course there is the Dragonborn template which could bump your Con an additional +2 plus access to flight, a breath weapon or some sensory boosts.
If you go with the Ironsoul Forgemaster, you'll still want an ally to cast spells for you when you craft equipment. Alternatively you could bind Mage's Spectacles and use a scroll to meet spell requirements.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would rather burn early levels on paragon than later levels on stoneblessed.

[Waker]

Oh I never said the idea of the Stoneblessed was a great idea. I was just pointing out that it was an option. Some people might also like the disconnect from playing as an Orc who is so buddy-buddy with Dwarves that he can take classes specifically designed for Dwarves, including Paragon.

My build for said character would probably be something along the lines of Dwarven Barbarian/Crusader//Incarnate/Ironsoul Forgemaster. Have the levels between Barbarian and Crusader split about 50/50, with a slight favoring of Crusader. I'd grab Spell Sense to replace Trap Sense.

[Zovc]

Someone suggested the "Barbarian Cleric." I forget what source they said it was from, but also consider this:

Just play a Cleric using any Alternate class features that seem appropriate/optimal, Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) (Unearthed Arcana, SRD) included. I'm almost certain there are two domains or domain powers you could use to get barbarian class features like rage.

On the other side, play a Crusader. It's like a paladin, but focused mostly on kicking butt. I believe Crusader grooms you for the Ruby Knight Vindicator Prestige class which--if I'm not mistaken--improves your divine casting some and provides you a way to get extra actions.

On levels your Ruby Knight Vindicator levels aren't boosting your divine casting, you level it on your Crusader side. On levels it is, you level it on your Cleric side. I'm sure you could even pile on more prestige classes if you wanted.

So my suggestion is: "Barbarian Cleric"//Crusader with at least Ruby Knight Vindicator mixed in. Crusader and RKV are both in the Tome of Battle.

Edit:
Passion domain from Player's Guide to Eberron, I think, lets you rage for a number of rounds/day equal to your cleric modifier. You use the rounds any time you want as a free action. Supernatural.

[Fouredged Sword]

Now that raises an interesting idea.

Half Dragon half Orc

Half-orc paragon 3 / Orc paragon 3 / Stoneblessed X / Dwarf paragon 3 / Half dragon paragon 3 / Something X

Just avoid actual classes, focus on getting as many paragon classes as possible in a single build.