So what is worse: 3 wasted feats or two wasted HD

[CyberThread]

So I stumbled along a race that gives a player

3d8 hitdice +2 LA

With Scent, +4 dex +2 con +2 STR +3 Natural Armor +8 to move silently and the ability to take 10 on a move silently check no matter what.

The odd bit is they get spring attack also as a feat which is allot of PRC's require, yet most folks consider it very costly to try and attain.

If we are comparing it against a fighter.


You would have 5d10 + two fighter feats +5 bab

Is the loss of +3 bab and 2d10+6 health worth AT All for the access to spring attack and all the other little things.

[Aegis013]

It really depends a lot on the build or circumstances in question.

It's difficult to determine in a vacuum. For example, if you're a Sorcerer, losing 2 HD means delaying access to the next level of spells for two levels, which is almost never worth it.

Some other classes or builds it might be worth doing though.

[soveliss24]

It's also very important to know whether you can use LA buyoff, and also whether the campaign will last long enough for it to be an option. If yes to both, this race starts to look much nicer.

[Osiris]

I could picture this for, say, a rogue, sneaking up on something and killing it [with fire!] :smallsmile: What say, everybody?
I have been looking for tings that grant scent as a property, and I can't find it anywhere. Thank you! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: answer: I'd go with the race

[Curmudgeon]

It's a worthwhile combo with two considerations:

You exercise LA buyoff.
You have Scout levels (which makes sense, because the favored class is Scout for the Varag).

[Urpriest]

One thing to think about: lots of things that require Spring Attack as a prereq specifically require Dodge and Mobility as well. Shadowdancer for example.

[Spuddles]

Also depends on the RHD. Monstrous humanoid, dragon, and outsider HD are amazing, while Undead, fey, and giant suck.

With 3rhd and 2 la, you better be getting a lot.

[soveliss24]

One thing to think about: lots of things that require Spring Attack as a prereq specifically require Dodge and Mobility as well. Shadowdancer for example.

If you're a Varag Scout and want to use one of those things, go with Expeditious Dodge (better for a Scout) and then just accept that Mobility is a bit of a feat tax. Sounds like a good deal to me compared to normal entry to those classes.

[Curmudgeon]

If you're a Varag Scout and want to use one of those things, go with Expeditious Dodge (better for a Scout) and then just accept that Mobility is a bit of a feat tax.
Actually, that would be an equipment tax: you can get Mobility as an armor enhancement which grants the feat (see Magic Item Compendium; also note pages 233-234 where you can add that to a robe or bracers on top of an armor enhancement, so no real armor is required).

[CyberThread]

Then DM sunders it, and you lose everything?

[soveliss24]

Well that sounds even better then :smallsmile: One good feat instead of three bad ones to get into a PrC? Sign me up!

Edit: Can't sunder armor last I heard...

[Curmudgeon]

Then DM sunders it, and you lose everything?
Not possible.
You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

[CyberThread]

oh :( that sucks