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Olinser
2013-05-09, 10:07 PM
So, I don't see another thread for it, so I'll start one.

Obviously, this is about the spectacular webcomic Looking for Group, which can be found at:

http://www.lfgcomic.com/

It starts out as a bunch of 1-off jokes and over-the-top parodies, but it quickly evolves into a fairly good storyline.

My favorite character is Richard. He is an unashamedly evil pseudo-lich, that wanders around killing things and cracking sweet jokes.

Favorite quote by Richard?

'You all saw it. That orphanage attacked ME!'

ThirdEmperor
2013-05-09, 10:32 PM
Oh boy oh boy oh boy, another LFG thread!
More snark! Exactly what we need!

Just, uh, word of warning? I wouldn't expect to find too many fellow fans here. The last few threads have been rather heavily weighed on the negative end of the spectrum.

Olinser
2013-05-10, 07:31 AM
Oh boy oh boy oh boy, another LFG thread!
More snark! Exactly what we need!

Just, uh, word of warning? I wouldn't expect to find too many fellow fans here. The last few threads have been rather heavily weighed on the negative end of the spectrum.

Were there threads? I never really paid attention to the webcomic thread. I definitely didn't see a current one.

fwiffo
2013-05-10, 08:42 AM
Threads seem to have been lost in recent site issues, but they still available when you search for them on web search sites, and probably more if you specifically go to archiving sites.

As for comic, it started promising, and that Richard orphanage line was one of the early favorites. But then it rather quickly degenerated; the characterization stalled, the plot wandered all over the place without ever establishing a coherent theme, world-building didn't gel all that much, and the strip degenerated into "what kind of unrealistically stupid gag would Richard pull this time".

Well drawn art and rock solid update schedule shows that someone is putting an effort to making it; and it has its fans. I am not one of them. Meh characters, meandering plotting, consistently inconsistent tone, inability to follow up the story elements to their conclusions - all of that loses my interest pretty fast.

Take the current line. Does anyone know what the heck is that all about? Does anyone really care?

The Glyphstone
2013-05-10, 11:56 AM
More or less...LFG was a nice comic. The Amazing Adventures of Richard and Friends is a pale shadow of its ancestor.

busterswd
2013-05-10, 12:04 PM
Gently throwing another chit into the probably very large "not a fan" pile that lurks in this forum. Among other things, the attempts at drama, or even worse, the attempts at parodying drama, were pretty bad.

Morty
2013-05-10, 12:50 PM
It started out as a decent fantasy parody, I suppose. Later on... the writer just tried too hard. It's like he inserted everything that seemed like a good idea at the time into the comic, and as a result the story seemed to wander around like a stunned turtle, occasionally interrupted by a random Richard gag. Which I suppose weren't as bad as the attempts at being dramatic and profound.

Olinser
2013-05-10, 01:12 PM
It started out as a decent fantasy parody, I suppose. Later on... the writer just tried too hard. It's like he inserted everything that seemed like a good idea at the time into the comic, and as a result the story seemed to wander around like a stunned turtle, occasionally interrupted by a random Richard gag. Which I suppose weren't as bad as the attempts at being dramatic and profound.

Well, I guess I just like throwaway Richard gags, then :smallbiggrin:

ThirdEmperor
2013-05-10, 01:15 PM
Basically, if you like Richard's jokes then great. If not then there's not much else in this comic to like.

Vinyadan
2013-05-11, 04:04 AM
I feel let down by this comic. The beginning was nice; things went fast and funny, and the comic was not to be taken seriously.

Then they wanted a plot with time travel, which can make so many things wrong, and they wanted to make it deep. Then Richard was turning human, which could have been quite a twist, but then no, let us say, that nothing of this ever happened.

And now nothing makes sense anymore. I only visit the site because of the art. Interactions between characters are even more nonsensical than before.

Draconi Redfir
2013-05-11, 08:51 AM
i'm a fan of the webcoic and i read it on a reguler basis. but i do expect people will be tearing this thread to bits soon enough.

Olinser
2013-05-11, 09:25 AM
i'm a fan of the webcoic and i read it on a reguler basis. but i do expect people will be tearing this thread to bits soon enough.

Haters gonna hate.

The Glyphstone
2013-05-11, 09:48 AM
*pours Olinser a glass of delicious haterade*

Find humor where you can get it, even if you have to squeeze it out of a stone. Check the CAD thread on here if you don't know what I mean.:smallsmile:

Traab
2013-05-11, 03:06 PM
I used to be a bigger fan of the comic, its just. . . its gotten so random lately. I mean come on, I can buy a kidnapped group of kids being a diversion to distract Cale. But them turning into weresquirrels? Then showing up in a cave with another actual squirrel telling them a story? Blugh. I dont generally mind richards aggressively random behavior, but when the entire story goes that far into random territory it looks like its being written out of a bunch of random mad libs collections, it gets to be too much.

t209
2013-05-11, 05:56 PM
I used to be a bigger fan of the comic, its just. . . its gotten so random lately. I mean come on, I can buy a kidnapped group of kids being a diversion to distract Cale. But them turning into weresquirrels? Then showing up in a cave with another actual squirrel telling them a story? Blugh. I dont generally mind richards aggressively random behavior, but when the entire story goes that far into random territory it looks like its being written out of a bunch of random mad libs collections, it gets to be too much.
I am feeling that Rich is becoming a unintentional deconstruction of Token Evil Teammate (he started it).

Morty
2013-05-11, 06:09 PM
I used to be a bigger fan of the comic, its just. . . its gotten so random lately. I mean come on, I can buy a kidnapped group of kids being a diversion to distract Cale. But them turning into weresquirrels? Then showing up in a cave with another actual squirrel telling them a story? Blugh. I dont generally mind richards aggressively random behavior, but when the entire story goes that far into random territory it looks like its being written out of a bunch of random mad libs collections, it gets to be too much.

I hear you. A while ago I followed a link to LFG. Cale and Richard were fighting some guys and then Richard made a random Gangam Style reference. Now? They're fighting some squirrel guys and Richard makes a random gag.

Olinser
2013-05-11, 09:57 PM
I hear you. A while ago I followed a link to LFG. Cale and Richard were fighting some guys and then Richard made a random Gangam Style reference. Now? They're fighting some squirrel guys and Richard makes a random gag.

Ok yes, but you've got to admit that whole, 'got your nose' bit was frigging hilarious.

slayerx
2013-05-11, 10:13 PM
I used to be a bigger fan of the comic, its just. . . its gotten so random lately. I mean come on, I can buy a kidnapped group of kids being a diversion to distract Cale. But them turning into weresquirrels? Then showing up in a cave with another actual squirrel telling them a story? Blugh. I dont generally mind richards aggressively random behavior, but when the entire story goes that far into random territory it looks like its being written out of a bunch of random mad libs collections, it gets to be too much.

Indeed, a big problem about the current storyline is the fact that the diversion is not just distracting Cale, its distracting the readers from the plot. You really can't go on a tangent for this long for no reason while in the middle of a plotline. Really it's painful to wait for them to get back to the plot and its easy to forget many past details. I mean, instead of following Cale and richard on their pointless sidequest, why not just stick with Benny and the plot? We stick with the plot and cale and richard re-enter the story when their done with their sidequest; maybe even make a joke about their zany adventure.

The comic is TRYING to be both a wacky adventure comic and an epic story, but the elements don't seem to really mesh all that well. It started off well, but things just kinda went downhill. It feels very directionless and at times feels like they are just making things up as they go. Some things don't even add up like how benny wasn't able to bring back one person who died even though we saw her bring back two others from death before that.

Also i'm vaguely remembering plot details that don't recall being explained... like Why Aelloon did not attack the city when Cale was out attacking the king... or why exactly that elf was named king in the first place... it would appear because he killed the king, but if that was how it worked then Cale should have become the new king... not to mention that if a society chooses a king in such a fashion it makes no sense for the previous to be some pudgy noble.

Vinyadan
2013-05-12, 08:27 AM
Also i'm vaguely remembering plot details that don't recall being explained... like Why Aelloon did not attack the city when Cale was out attacking the king... or why exactly that elf was named king in the first place... it would appear because he killed the king, but if that was how it worked then Cale should have become the new king... not to mention that if a society chooses a king in such a fashion it makes no sense for the previous to be some pudgy noble.

From the same author:

http://www.leasticoulddo.com/comic/20090103/

He either must really like this plot device, or he simply doesn't know of other succession systems.

Metahuman1
2013-05-19, 09:58 AM
The fact that Richard is insane in a flavor after the Joker isn't actually my problem with it. It's the fact that he never get's nailed for it and somehow it keeps other worthwhile things form happening.


At least form what little I've read, I didn't hang with it too long. Just didn't do anything for me I guess.



If I had to compair it to another web comic, I'd go Will Save World for Gold, and compare it unfavorably, cause Peanut, at times 45, Ellie and Oddie were generally likeable enough that they kept Ardon from inherently ruining the comic by himself, even when you just wanted to clobber him. Add in some of the more recent events which I will not go into detail on to avoid spoilers and some of Ardon's admittedly good early gags (Ardon: "Stab him for XP?"

Odie: "No. So, what does this stuff do anyway?"

Old Guy: "Well, it's actually a +2 Jam."

Odie: "Seriously?!"

Old Guy: "Yup."

*Pause.*

Ardon: "Stab him for XP?"

Odie: "Thinking about it." ) And Ardon basically comes out as a 4E lower level version of Richard. With a much more enjoyable supporting cast.

t209
2013-05-23, 01:16 PM
http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/672/
Guess why the hand dude spilled the beans :smallfrown:.

Olinser
2013-05-23, 01:23 PM
http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/672/
Guess why the hand dude spilled the beans :smallfrown:.

Because he couldn't.... HANDle the pressure? :smallcool:

Traab
2013-05-23, 03:31 PM
http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/672/
Guess why the hand dude spilled the beans :smallfrown:.

Because he was all thumbs?

The Glyphstone
2013-05-23, 06:57 PM
The 'cut off fingers one by one' torture takes on a whole new meaning when you're torturing a giant sentient hand.

Vinyadan
2013-05-25, 04:37 AM
Am I the only one to feel that the last LFG and LICD strips show how much better these comics are, when Richard and Rayne (aka badass versions of the author) aren't around?

tbergman92
2013-06-14, 02:19 AM
Personally, I'm going to throw my hat in with those who like the comic. I think LFG got a bit...ambitious. But I've followed most of the twists so far, I think, and what I haven't understood yet, I assume will be explained. But that may just be a legacy of my upbringing in things like Doctor Who and mysteries, and my current love of Sherlock and crazy fantasy/sci-fi.

Edit: As you can tell from my Avatar, I really like Richard.

t209
2013-06-15, 04:53 AM
The problem is that the author's favorite books are Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth. You know the length of Wheel of Time (the author died without finishing the book) and tone of Sword of Truth (Think Ishida's stupidity on his "feminist" beliefs but replaced it with Atlas Shrugged).
Maybe it would be better if it was like Adventure Time or Heroic Fantasy (doing quests and skits).

tbergman92
2013-06-15, 12:51 PM
See, that may be a place where we disagree. I've only read one of Wheel of Time, but I greatly enjoyed it, and plan on finishing it. And the Sword of Truth series is in my top five favorite series, perhaps my favorite, even. I greatly enjoy lengthy stories, because I can enjoy them for a prolonged period and can reread them to enjoy again many times, as, because of their length (and complexity, in the case of the Sword of Truth), every time I read it, I get more out of it.

So, in my opinion, the fact that those are the author's favorite books are simply bonuses to my expectations for the comic, not reasons why the comic is bad (or, rather, not-as-good-as-otherwise).

(On side notes that really don't matter (I just have a thing about being thorough), I had no idea who Ishida was until looking him up two seconds ago; and the author who finished the Wheel of Time series (Brandon Sanderson) is definitely in my top five authors, so that's another plus to that series for me).

Guancyto
2013-06-15, 01:50 PM
The problem is that the author's favorite books are Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth.

Huh.

No problems with the Wheel of Time, but what with the Sword of Truth being a juvenile aping of Ayn Rand, it actually explains a lot that LFG is a juvenile aping of the Sword of Truth.

But the main problem with LFG is that Ryan Sohmer doesn't do serious or complex work well. Least I Could Do visibly suffered in quality when it tried to move beyond the silly, the over-the-top and the cheap sex gags. (I mean seriously, that 'future dream' arc? I've seen better writing in OC x canon character slash fiction.)

He also really doesn't do worldbuilding. Or pacing. Or characterization. That worked just fine when it was a silly sort of WoW parody because all the hard work was already done for him, with a lot of pre-existing ideas of world and characters that he could build off of and nobody really cares about pacing in a parody. I should stress there's no shame in that! Tons of people write webcomics that can't really do any of these things. If I had to talk about world-building, pacing, characterization or seriousness of, say, Happiness and Cyanide, I couldn't tell you a single thing. The problem is that the author of LFG is playing directly against his strengths.

I have to give props to his confidence though, there appear to be over six hundred pages of a comic that had said pretty much everything it was going to say at twenty.

Edit: One thing this means is that the elf and warlock going off and having zany buddy cop adventures and ignoring the plot entirely (which apparently is what's happening now) is exactly the right idea because the plot, much like Bieber, was a mistake that should never have happened.

t209
2013-06-15, 09:34 PM
I wonder how LFG will turn out if it was like Rune Soldier and Adventure Time (Season 1 and non-main story).

Reverent-One
2013-06-21, 03:03 PM
Edit: One thing this means is that the elf and warlock going off and having zany buddy cop adventures and ignoring the plot entirely (which apparently is what's happening now) is exactly the right idea because the plot, much like Bieber, was a mistake that should never have happened.

I disagree. The comic was at it's best after moving beyond simple fantasy parody for several chapters, until the tangents and jokes dominated and sidelined the plot and characters, first slowing them down and now basically stopping them cold. Now it's a rather tired, one note comic.

Morty
2013-06-21, 03:10 PM
Zany adventures of an elf and an undead warlock can be good. So can a more ambitious fantasy story. But trying to combine the two is difficult, and the author of LFG can't really manage that.

Reverent-One
2013-06-21, 03:38 PM
I don't think it's so much a pure lack of capabilties on Sohmer's part. It's strongest run for me was books 2 - 8 or so, and I don't think it's coincidence that it's problems (as I see them) started coming in after that along with announcements of new webcomics being started, having a kid, and opening a comic book shop. IMO, the joke-a-day format is easier and more natural for him and with everything else he has going on the attention LFG gets has been reduced, resulting in a defaulting to those sorts of random jokes and simply lower quality work.

Morty
2013-06-21, 05:34 PM
I'm not sure if I'd call it a lack of capability. It's more like inability to focus. The comic would jump from one subplot to another with jokes in-between at the best of times. It honestly felt like Sohmer just acted on the latest idea he had, abandoning the previous one halfway through. I don't know how it is now, though.

Vinyadan
2013-06-22, 11:13 AM
Yes, I think the problem is the lack of concentration and coherency. The comic has already been too many different things with different mixtures of plot and surreal humor. And Sohmer has troubles in writing characters who aren't smartasses, and, as they say, "too many smartasses spoiled the comic".

Olinser
2013-06-24, 03:17 PM
That's really just opinion. I went back and re-read the comic again a couple weeks ago, and to me, it flows just fine. Everything feeds back into a coherent overarching storyline - which is still ongoing.

The Glyphstone
2013-06-24, 03:26 PM
That's really just opinion. I went back and re-read the comic again a couple weeks ago, and to me, it flows just fine. Everything feeds back into a coherent overarching storyline - which is still ongoing.

I'll be very interested to find out what the Wacky Adventures of Richard and Cale In The Land of the Giant Raccoon Monsters has to do with the 'main plot' of the magic scroll/book of ultimate knowledge.

fwiffo
2013-06-24, 04:52 PM
Not to mention with the plot of Richard turning into human (as in, a being who is generally not likely to deal well with being quartered), the imp and you-must-do-this-quest line, dragon in a bag, the magical mystery swords, or any of the many dozen things which are started and not finished, thought through, or even addressed past a certain point. Meandering without reason, purpose, or much continuity can be done, if each individual strip is entertaining in its own way (see first few OOTS strips for good example). It has been many months since LFG had an entertaining strip.

I feel sorry for Lar. He is a decent artist and is wasted in this miserable mess of a strip.

The Glyphstone
2013-06-24, 06:35 PM
That too. Some authors can do the multiple plotlines thing well - Schlock Mercenary comes to mind, where the oddest things, characters, or events will get dragged back into the limelight to center in a new story arc, all coming back and tying into the big metaplot.

LFG, though, you don't get that feeling. Plots appear, get developed out, then get dropped in favor of Random Richard Wackiness and apparently forgotten.

Olinser
2013-06-24, 07:23 PM
I'll be very interested to find out what the Wacky Adventures of Richard and Cale In The Land of the Giant Raccoon Monsters has to do with the 'main plot' of the magic scroll/book of ultimate knowledge.

It has to do with exactly what it was stated in-comic that it was. A trap by Aellon.

Aellon threw it in front of them because he knew Cale suffered from Chronic Hero Syndrome and would be distracted by it so he could finish breaking open the book of ultimate knowledge.

An ambush against Cale and Richard would last however long Richard wanted it to last (not long). A distraction where they are thrown from one meaningless task to the next is the only real thing he can do to keep them away long enough.

Olinser
2013-06-24, 07:26 PM
Not to mention with the plot of Richard turning into human (as in, a being who is generally not likely to deal well with being quartered), the imp and you-must-do-this-quest line, dragon in a bag, the magical mystery swords, or any of the many dozen things which are started and not finished, thought through, or even addressed past a certain point. Meandering without reason, purpose, or much continuity can be done, if each individual strip is entertaining in its own way (see first few OOTS strips for good example). It has been many months since LFG had an entertaining strip.

I feel sorry for Lar. He is a decent artist and is wasted in this miserable mess of a strip.

The imp and that whole quest line served exactly it's purpose - to force Richard to go out and retrieve the book.

The swords were a power upgrade for Cale so he could realistically contribute to fights without people whining about him only participating because Richard wasn't around. The OOTS did basically the same thing with Roy's shiny new sword of +5 plotpower.

Richard turning into a human has been part of the plot for quite a while, and is well done. It shows his struggle with what he has to do to maintain his power (kill innocent people), and the fact that he really doesn't find it that entertaining anymore.

The dragon in a bag was a funny throwaway gag.

Yana
2013-06-25, 07:05 AM
I'm still at a loss as to how these guys think they can raise $600,000 for their game.

Vinyadan
2013-06-25, 07:42 AM
I'm still at a loss as to how these guys think they can raise $600,000 for their game.

They will add a promise for a film.

CRtwenty
2013-06-25, 07:46 AM
I'm still at a loss as to how these guys think they can raise $600,000 for their game.

Because it's Ryan Sohmer. That's really all that needs to be said. :smallannoyed:

T-O-E
2013-06-25, 10:18 AM
I'm still at a loss as to how these guys think they can raise $600,000 for their game.

The guy is basically a business warlock. If he thinks he can raise $600,000 then he'll end up with a million.

Vinyadan
2013-06-25, 12:14 PM
The guy is basically a business warlock. If he thinks he can raise $600,000 then he'll end up with a million.

I'd call him the Stephenie Meyer of webcomics. A lot of vocal people don't like his work, but he still fulfills the needs of a lot of other. Hence, money.

Darius123
2013-06-25, 01:32 PM
The guy is basically a business warlock. If he thinks he can raise $600,000 then he'll end up with a million.

It's been 6 days, and the Kickstarter's only at $80,000. Barring a sudden, massive surge in funding, it looks like he's going to fall considerably short of his goal.

slayerx
2013-06-25, 01:51 PM
It has to do with exactly what it was stated in-comic that it was. A trap by Aellon.

Aellon threw it in front of them because he knew Cale suffered from Chronic Hero Syndrome and would be distracted by it so he could finish breaking open the book of ultimate knowledge.

An ambush against Cale and Richard would last however long Richard wanted it to last (not long). A distraction where they are thrown from one meaningless task to the next is the only real thing he can do to keep them away long enough.

Except actually seeing what they are doing is irrelevant. All we have to know is that they are off on some irrelevant distraction. What is the point of spending MONTHS and dozen's of pages to watching Cale and richard on their distraction quest? The main point of this entire plot line is the fate of the book, but Cale and richard's wacky adventures have nothing to do with this. Knowing why they are gone is important, but actually seeing what they have been up to this entire time is not. After receiving their quest, They could simply exit the story to go off on their quest, and then re-enter the story when they need to; this would allows us to spend ALL of our time following Benny's group who are the one's actually following the plot.

Like i said before, this sidequest is not just a distraction for cale, is a distraction for the readers who want to keep going with the plot.


The imp and that whole quest line served exactly it's purpose - to force Richard to go out and retrieve the book.
And the ONLY result of this was getting richard back together with the team... This could have also been accomplished by Richard simply escaping. Aelloon had a separate group pursing the book already anyway; no real reason why he needed to use richard in the first place.

Vinyadan
2013-06-25, 05:12 PM
It's been 6 days, and the Kickstarter's only at $80,000. Barring a sudden, massive surge in funding, it looks like he's going to fall considerably short of his goal.

How does it work, do they get to keep the money if they do not succeed? Are they partially funded, or do they have to give it back?

Morty
2013-06-25, 05:26 PM
If a Kickstarter fails to meet its goal, no money is subtracted from the backers' accounts.

And this Kickstarter is a pretty good example of Sohmer's frantic approach to his creative works, I think.

T-O-E
2013-06-25, 05:48 PM
It's been 6 days, and the Kickstarter's only at $80,000. Barring a sudden, massive surge in funding, it looks like he's going to fall considerably short of his goal.

Is the nightmare over?

Darius123
2013-06-25, 06:15 PM
How does it work, do they get to keep the money if they do not succeed? Are they partially funded, or do they have to give it back?

If the Kickstarter fails, Sohmer gets no money.


Is the nightmare over?

Judging from some of the comments here (http://www.lfgcomic.com/lfg-the-fork-of-truth-now-on-kickstarter/), it seems like a decent portion of the fanbase is getting tired of being treated like Sohmer's own personal ATM machine.

Fates
2013-06-25, 07:50 PM
The problem is that the author's favorite books are Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth. You know the length of Wheel of Time (the author died without finishing the book) and tone of Sword of Truth (Think Ishida's stupidity on his "feminist" beliefs but replaced it with Atlas Shrugged).
Maybe it would be better if it was like Adventure Time or Heroic Fantasy (doing quests and skits).

:smallamused:

Wow...I think I just laughed for a whole minute there.

That explains SO much about the comic.

Heh-heh, heh...

Sword of Truth... :smallamused:

EDIT: Snarking aside, I really did like the comic for a good long while. I actually think the author managed to pair the epic fantasy and (overly gory) parody themes relatively well for some time, but, in the past year or so, the comic has really become horrendous. The fourth wall, which was in shambles to begin with, has been completely obliterated in a gangam style dance-off. Richard's gags has ceased to be funny, and the dialogue is so unbelievable and utterly pointless that I can barely stand to read it anymore. The plot has completely ground to a halt after countless segues that lead to nothing whatsoever, and gave me absolutely no satisfaction.

Yana
2013-06-25, 09:53 PM
This was the comic where I lost total interest in the story and in the author's ability to fabricate a reasonably interesting tale.

NSFW possibly considering that it's a giant earthworm that looks exactly like male genitalia. How mature.

http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/413/

T-O-E
2013-06-25, 10:33 PM
Judging from some of the comments here (http://www.lfgcomic.com/lfg-the-fork-of-truth-now-on-kickstarter/), it seems like a decent portion of the fanbase is getting tired of being treated like Sohmer's own personal ATM machine.

I'm assuming his fans are now bankrupt.

Vinyadan
2013-06-26, 05:54 AM
I'm assuming his fans are now bankrupt.

I actually got a feeling that Kickstarter is starting to get not-so-good receptions.
Most people (at least, of whom I heard) who managed to fund their projects through it then fell hopelessly behind their promises. There were many reasons for this, but the main thing is that this system is the way to make a big leap forward: starting with your own activity, you then have to embark in something much bigger, and your original activity probably already takes most of your time. A small studio then has to work on very big, multiple projects, as well as rewards and so on. It's just too much, many fall behind their schedule or have to impair their original projects - those which the fanbase loves.

So, I don't think it is just about Sohmer, although it factually is.

slayerx
2013-06-26, 08:11 AM
I actually got a feeling that Kickstarter is starting to get not-so-good receptions.
Most people (at least, of whom I heard) who managed to fund their projects through it then fell hopelessly behind their promises. There were many reasons for this, but the main thing is that this system is the way to make a big leap forward: starting with your own activity, you then have to embark in something much bigger, and your original activity probably already takes most of your time. A small studio then has to work on very big, multiple projects, as well as rewards and so on. It's just too much, many fall behind their schedule or have to impair their original projects - those which the fanbase loves.

So, I don't think it is just about Sohmer, although it factually is.

eh i don't know, there have been plenty of successful kickstarters. But you may have a point about the sudden change in pace... the most successful kickstarters tend to be from either smaller less ambitious projects, or from people who have been doing this for years, like people who have industry experience; they KNOW what it takes to get things done. The hobbyists and amateurs on the otherhand have no idea what they are getting themselves into

However i might also say that in Sohmer's case, it could be the backlash that comes with not fulfilling previous goals. When it comes down to it, if you don't fulfill your previous kickstart promise then fans will remember and be weary about contributing again. Now granted, it does seem like Sohmer has been working on the movie he promised, but it could be that it would have been better for him to actually deliver the movie first, proving he can fulfill a promise, before jumping on to a new project

Doompuppy
2013-06-26, 08:28 AM
eh i don't know, there have been plenty of successful kickstarters. But you may have a point about the sudden change in pace... the most successful kickstarters tend to be from either smaller less ambitious projects, or from people who have been doing this for years, like people who have industry experience; they KNOW what it takes to get things done. The hobbyists and amateurs on the otherhand have no idea what they are getting themselves into

However i might also say that in Sohmer's case, it could be the backlash that comes with not fulfilling previous goals. When it comes down to it, if you don't fulfill your previous kickstart promise then fans will remember and be weary about contributing again. Now granted, it does seem like Sohmer has been working on the movie he promised, but it could be that it would have been better for him to actually deliver the movie first, proving he can fulfill a promise, before jumping on to a new project

I definitely think that's a big problem here. Kickstarting isn't supposed to be a complete substitute for traditional funding methods all the time. And especially not for multiple projects at once. You funded one project - now finish it, get some money from it, and reinvest from that into the game project. If you need a little more after that to fund it, then PERHAPS you can do another kickstarter, but even then I'd be hesitant about doing it too soon after the previous one.

Grey Pilgrim
2013-06-26, 10:58 AM
I am a huge fan of LFG... or at least I used to be. It had absolutely hilarious moments with Everyone's-favorite-mentally-unstable-warlock while it also had a story and some meaning on top of random gags. Around book 14 or so it started to go weird and now its weirder and weirder and there are tons of absolutely random gags or obscure cultural references and little to no progress at all. Richard turning into a human thing, Benny's mother, mysterious book which is ol' cow's legacy, this all could have been good story points, not to mention any long running plots (dragons, fellbuny, Kethenecia,...). But no, we have giant racoons instead. The randomnes is no longer entertaining, as it becomes a tireing pattern. Maybe the authors should stop their strict "two times a week" update schedule and go figure out where their story is getting, otherwise they will be just shooting blind jokes into the open.

I believe the comic is actually suffering from many fans leaving it, judging from how their forums are more and more quiet. It is a shame, cos I think it has a good potential.

T-O-E
2013-06-26, 11:26 AM
Well that's an interesting PW ad.

Vinyadan
2013-06-26, 01:22 PM
:smallamused:
EDIT: Snarking aside, I really did like the comic for a good long while. I actually think the author managed to pair the epic fantasy and (overly gory) parody themes relatively well for some time, but, in the past year or so, the comic has really become horrendous. The fourth wall, which was in shambles to begin with, has been completely obliterated in a gangam style dance-off. Richard's gags has ceased to be funny, and the dialogue is so unbelievable and utterly pointless that I can barely stand to read it anymore. The plot has completely ground to a halt after countless segues that lead to nothing whatsoever, and gave me absolutely no satisfaction.

He said DANCE-OFF! (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-26)

Ok, this was pretty dumb on my side, but I had not noticed it before. Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, but I think problems were there even before. Also: could some English-speaker explain me this punchline (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/536/)?

Traab
2013-06-26, 04:09 PM
Honestly? I dont get it either. Unless its supposed to be a sort of deadpan look at the living skeleton telling us he is dying.

Fates
2013-06-26, 10:32 PM
He said DANCE-OFF! (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-26)

Ok, this was pretty dumb on my side, but I had not noticed it before.


Hah, at this point, I'm not sure which of the two comics is worse.



Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, but I think problems were there even before. Also: could some English-speaker explain me this punchline (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/536/)?

I...That...it....

That is really horrible execution; I had forgotten about that. I suppose the joke was meant to be that Maikos was angered at the mad hatter for showing off his hats while he's presenting a serious issue. But, as I said, the execution was so terrible and unrealistic that it didn't even come off as humourous.

busterswd
2013-06-29, 03:31 AM
I actually think he's supposed to be pissed off at Cale in that one. The expressions are pretty off (one of my pet peeves with the comic since the beginning), the dialogue is stilted, and the pacing is all wrong.


The joke they tried to set up is this: after Cale has completed a bunch of inane, irrelevant quests of no importance, Richard's servant comes up to Cale with a heartfelt request for help. Cale's immediate reaction is "Great, what sort of pointless task are YOU going to ask of me?" The servant's response is "...this is a literally a matter of life and death. But thanks for caring, ass."

Execution is however pretty horrible.

Traab
2013-06-29, 07:20 AM
Ah see THAT makes sense. In which case, they could have erased the last two panels, and made dying boy angry. After dealing with Kale making snide comments about what annoying silly quest he wants them to do, not letting him speak, he finally bursts out, "We are DYING, you ass!!"

Olinser
2013-06-30, 07:13 PM
He said DANCE-OFF! (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-26)

Ok, this was pretty dumb on my side, but I had not noticed it before. Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, but I think problems were there even before. Also: could some English-speaker explain me this punchline (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/536/)?

The joke is that he says 'we're dying'. Of course everybody else is hopelessly confused because they are ALREADY DEAD (or UNdead, as it were). The punchline is both him lamenting his choice of words, and being mad at everybody else for not understanding him.

This is further emphasized several panels later when Cale uses him as a human shield.

T-O-E
2013-07-05, 11:09 AM
Zeke from CAD is now one of the Kickstarter rewards. Why am I not surprised.

Reverent-One
2013-07-05, 01:26 PM
Zeke from CAD is now one of the Kickstarter rewards. Why am I not surprised.

Because Blind Ferret produced the CAD animated series? :smallwink:

Vinyadan
2013-07-05, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the different interpretations!

And he gave the forums back! Wow! What a lucky coincidence with this timely conjuncture!

CRtwenty
2013-07-07, 02:39 AM
Zeke from CAD is now one of the Kickstarter rewards. Why am I not surprised.

Oh jeez. Ryan Sohmer is a lot of things, but he's still far far above Tim Buckley's level. He shouldn't ever be associated with him in any way. :smallyuk:

AngryHobbit
2013-07-15, 07:50 AM
One comic after the Weresquirell thing and its already better. Guess he did that (dont want to spoil) because how everyone complained about that stupid plot arc and that stupid children.
Now they can return to... what was this comic about anyway? I honestly forgot.

Vinyadan
2013-07-20, 09:03 AM
So, the Kickstarter is over and the funding was unsuccessful.

I think, however, that BFE gained a lot from this experience. They didn't get enough money, but they did get a LOT of feedback. They got back in touch with their readers/costumers/fans and gave them the forums back. They also got an olive branch from Thunt, which should mean something.

If BFE will elaborate on what they got from this experience, they will most likely get back on a meaningful track. The comments spoke of a few, concrete problems:


bad timing: Steam sales.
too many projects which required funding before this one in a very short time
lack of transparency about the status of the projects and the use of the money for them (steps were already made to correct this problem)
Writing quality decrease (bad parody, perceived refusal of being based on WoW, irrelevance of the plot to what was actually told in the strips)
Lack of forum as cause of fandom dismemberment
a perceived general lack of respect towards fans
bad direction for the game: excessive concurrence in the same area, limited compatibility with platforms and OS, development of something to which the fandom wasn't interested. Also, "there already is a LFG game, it's WoW".


I may add one: LFG did not offer anything more than usual in terms of production (no supplementary pages, for example, and no concurrence of important plot developements/fight klimax and so on).

I think all of these problems can be solved, as long as BFE is humble enough to admit them and work at them. As I already said, the fact that I feel let down by the comic is due to my past love for it. I hope it gets back on track.

Morty
2013-07-20, 09:45 AM
Maybe it'll serve as a valuable lesson about how you should finish what you started before moving on to the next great idea you had.

Vinyadan
2013-07-26, 02:21 PM
Maybe it'll serve as a valuable lesson about how you should finish what you started before moving on to the next great idea you had.

A new line of LFG novels has ben announced. They will be written by Sohmer himself.

T-O-E
2013-07-26, 03:09 PM
A new line of LFG novels has ben announced. They will be written by Sohmer himself.

He's serious.

Morty
2013-07-26, 03:43 PM
A new line of LFG novels has ben announced. They will be written by Sohmer himself.

Looks like whatever lesson there is sailed right past Sohmer's head. Maybe at least he won't do a Kickstarter for those...

T-O-E
2013-07-26, 04:46 PM
Do we have any examples of Sohmer writing prose fiction? Because this could be very bad.

fwiffo
2013-07-26, 05:07 PM
Do we have any example of Sohmer writing something with plot? Or with characters, for that matter?

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-08-03, 03:17 AM
Admittedly...although everything said here is correct... the current page (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/692/) is pretty sweet.

Olinser
2013-08-12, 09:15 PM
Admittedly...although everything said here is correct... the current page (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/692/) is pretty sweet.

All I can say about the most recent chapter is..

What
The
F***

BENNIE, ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID!?!?!?!

Vinyadan
2013-08-13, 05:18 AM
Gentlemen, the plot is wiggling again!

And the short musical video they made the Kickstarter for is now ready and available for anyone.

t209
2013-09-21, 11:04 AM
http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/702/
Remember when Richard and Kale was in the Racoon?
Well, it was supposed to happen at the ice cave.

T-O-E
2013-09-21, 02:57 PM
It's a little strange that Sohmer went from a failed kickstarter to another kickstarter within a month. Not really sure why the Gutters needs to exist.

Ninjadeadbeard
2013-09-21, 03:20 PM
So...seeing the finished "This is War" video...anyone else thought it looked a little Uncanny? I'm sort of disturbed by the animation.

Morty
2013-09-22, 06:49 AM
It's a little strange that Sohmer went from a failed kickstarter to another kickstarter within a month. Not really sure why the Gutters needs to exist.

What, really? He's not very big on this whole 'learning from your mistakes' thing, is he?

super dark33
2013-09-22, 08:05 AM
What, really? He's not very big on this whole 'learning from your mistakes' thing, is he?

His piss went up to his brain. (Dang, in Hebrew it sounds a lot better.)
He still thinks he is as he used to be (which wasn't many at its peak anyway.).

Vinyadan
2013-09-22, 08:05 AM
What, really? He's not very big on this whole 'learning from your mistakes' thing, is he?

He learnt that Kickstarter isn't a marketplace, but a funding platform. It's something.

Humbug
2013-09-22, 08:06 AM
Well, the KS has far surpassed the goal already, and the idea was from the fans if I'm not mistaken. And the goal is much more modest this time around, so it's not quite a blatant cash grab?

Olinser
2013-09-27, 09:59 AM
You know, regarding the main story, the more I see of Bennie, the less I like her.

In the first place, I have extreme trouble believing for one second that Aellon was actually interested in peace.

And even if he WERE, just a few minutes ago in comic time she was lamenting that Cale and Richard weren't there to help them. Now they show up to save them, and apparently it's Cale's fault he isn't a psychic or a mind reader?

t209
2013-09-27, 10:08 AM
http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/705/
Then time skip on the island,
It's more confusing than Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol run.

turbo164
2013-09-27, 12:06 PM
You know, regarding the main story, the more I see of Bennie, the less I like her.

In the first place, I have extreme trouble believing for one second that Aellon was actually interested in peace.

And even if he WERE, just a few minutes ago in comic time she was lamenting that Cale and Richard weren't there to help them. Now they show up to save them, and apparently it's Cale's fault he isn't a psychic or a mind reader?

And her resurrection ability continues to defy logic...

Stranger reduced to talking ash? Sure, if you pay her!

Skull of an enemy engulfed in flame? Sure, just so she can stab him!

Her dad gets stabbed? Doesn't work.

"Diplomat" gets shot with arrow? Yell at boyfriend for trying to save her life, instead of even attempting.

:smallconfused:

Traab
2013-09-27, 12:31 PM
Clearly you can only do it once or twice then never again. Yeah, thats the ticket.

sihnfahl
2013-09-27, 04:55 PM
Clearly you can only do it once or twice then never again. Yeah, thats the ticket.
No, she just ran out of Phoenix Down...

Vinyadan
2013-09-28, 05:29 AM
If she really could only do it once or twice, then she is Miss Dumbness of the Year, for wasting such a power and then letting her father die permanently. And, besides, why is she the only caster with such powers? Couldn't they hire someone to resurrect him? This is just one of the troubles caused by genre-jumping to this comic. How can you keep things serious, when you can't permakill people?

The other thing I wanted to say is that it amazes me how even the most incredible turn of events in this comic does not convey anything to me. I think it would be worth having a version without balloons and just look at Lar's drawings twice a week.

Morty
2013-09-28, 07:33 AM
It looks to me like a rather typical instance of an author introducing something into their fantasy world for the purpose of a one-off scene, and then facing a dilemma when this one-off thing could be used to solve a real, serious problem further in the plot.

Traab
2013-09-28, 08:19 AM
It looks to me like a rather typical instance of an author introducing something into their fantasy world for the purpose of a one-off scene, and then facing a dilemma when this one-off thing could be used to solve a real, serious problem further in the plot.

In all seriousness yeah, this is the problem that pops up when your silly gag a day adventure tries to get dramatic. A similar example, although along different lines, is the harry potter series. The first couple books were pure child adventure stories, but when she went more adult with the later parts of the series, it brought up a whole bunch of questions about both the earlier stories and why the later ones couldnt do things that worked in the earlier ones as well. It introduced plot holes, mostly annoying ones, but some fairly serious. Doing a tone shift in a series can easily create a large number of problems, but when you are talking about a comic like LFG its even worse because he is trying to have it both ways at the same time. Drama and silliness.

Socratov
2013-10-05, 08:29 AM
So, may I chime in with the fact that I do love this webcomic?

I mean, lots of people complain that the hero is so... ...Heroic. He's never at fault and this webcomic actually subverts it greatly. Whenever **** hits the fan it's actually Cale's fault and whenever he fixes his mess you can bet on it Richard will be chuckling in a few minutes at the mess the solution creates. And yeah Richard is a ****(capitol D) and is the sole reason of reading the comic if you can't find any.

I don think Cale should get out of his sulking routine and do something.

fwiffo
2013-10-06, 04:44 AM
Meh. Richard's shining moment was the "you all saw it, that orphanage attacked me". That was his "Thriller". It's been all downhill since. One of the best reason for NOT reading the comic. A good example of how not to write a "cynical bad-boy of the group" character (see Belkar on how to do it properly).

Why Lar deSouza ties his rather impressive ability as illustrator to Sohmer's complete lack of ability as a writer, I'll never understand.

Vinyadan
2013-10-06, 07:29 AM
Why Lar deSouza ties his rather impressive ability as illustrator to Sohmer's complete lack of ability as a writer, I'll never understand.

That's something I asked myself, too, until it came to my mind of the main character of Tails (http://tailscomic.com/), who ends up drawing gay porn for a while, so that he has a job and can live off his art. I think a steady employment and a professional co-worker are very important factors.

super dark33
2013-10-06, 08:22 AM
Meh. Richard's shining moment was the "you all saw it, that orphanage attacked me". That was his "Thriller". It's been all downhill since. One of the best reason for NOT reading the comic. A good example of how not to write a "cynical bad-boy of the group" character (see Belkar on how to do it properly).

Why Lar deSouza ties his rather impressive ability as illustrator to Sohmer's complete lack of ability as a writer, I'll never understand.

A better example is Black Mage from 8-bit Theater.

He is Richard in many ways, only that he gets what he deserves.
And his jokes are better.

sirchet
2013-10-06, 09:17 PM
I had no idea people disliked LFG this much.

Myself, I think it's a wonderful and funny strip.

I particularly like how well it's drawn.

In the end, it's just a strip, a mere pass time and I know for sure that I couldn't do anything close to the quality of it.

Olinser
2013-10-07, 08:24 AM
I had no idea people disliked LFG this much.

Myself, I think it's a wonderful and funny strip.

I particularly like how well it's drawn.

In the end, it's just a strip, a mere pass time and I know for sure that I couldn't do anything close to the quality of it.

I never got it either.

I've always subscribed to the thought process of, "If you don't like it, stop complaining and just don't read it."

Pandoren
2013-10-07, 09:03 AM
It's hard to tell whether or not I agree with the comments about the plot getting worse... because I can't stand Benny and therefore wasn't invested in her character or plot and so didn't enjoy reading that at all... Glad we are back on Richard and Cale, I guess we'll have to see where that goes.

Vinyadan
2013-10-07, 09:33 AM
I never got it either.

I've always subscribed to the thought process of, "If you don't like it, stop complaining and just don't read it."

You forget those who enjoyed it and now have had their toy taken away (like me).

Nourjan
2013-10-07, 11:31 AM
I was actually introduced to the Order Of The Stick and The Giant in The Playground site by Looking For Group. LFG is one of the first webcomic (the third or fourth,I think)that I ever read and is still one that I still follow regularly,so it is pretty clear that I hold this one close to my heart.

I however recognised it to be the worst webcomic that I still read(even Dominic Deegan was better, IMO).Everyday and with every update I become closer to dropping this webcomic from my reading list.(I'can still stand it ,unlikesome other webcomic that I ragequit:8bit theatre ,scarygoround etc.).

Guancyto
2013-10-07, 02:47 PM
I'm always honestly baffled by people who answer criticism with "well I personally like it" or "I have no complaints" as though this were an argument for a work's merit.

That's, uh, that's very nice, Random Internet Person #4231318, would you like to go into a bit more detail?

Traab
2013-10-07, 05:12 PM
I used to like it, but it seems to constantly seesaw back and forth between an actual storyline and a thousand digressions combined with random richard being random richard comics. If they just tried to set it up as some sort of whimsical gag a day type strip I would enjoy it more. I would also enjoy it more if it stayed more or less serious. Jokes are fine but it gets so random that it keeps ruining the story for me. These are two great tastes that taste TERRIBLE together.

Kislath
2013-10-07, 05:23 PM
I love LFG.. usually.

It has taken a weird turn on occasion, tough. Sometimes I think I must have missed a page or something, the way it jumps around without explanation.

Olinser
2013-10-07, 06:56 PM
I'm always honestly baffled by people who answer criticism with "well I personally like it" or "I have no complaints" as though this were an argument for a work's merit.

That's, uh, that's very nice, Random Internet Person #4231318, would you like to go into a bit more detail?

No, I wouldn't. I like it because its funny and I enjoy it.

If you don't enjoy reading it, stop reading it. It really is that simple.

If you don't like it, I am under no obligation to try convince you of anything, and I doubt I could even if I were inclined to try.

PhantomFox
2013-10-07, 08:21 PM
I think the idea is that if something has inherit merit, you can pinpoint what it is. It is possible to enjoy lower quality stuff, but thst doesn't change the level of quality

Guancyto
2013-10-07, 09:43 PM
Right. "I like it" and "it's good" are two totally different things.

So it just confuses me when people hear "it's not good" and answer "well I like it" Well yeah, there are people out there who like the Star Wars Christmas Special and can't come up with any compelling reasons why. I liked Evanescence as a bratty teen and that didn't stop it from being awful music.

I mean, what do you expect to hear in response to that? "No you don't"? "Your authoritative stance on the matter has convinced me to shut up and go away"? (And if the latter, that's fine among friends but has that ever worked on the Internet?)

Shogo
2013-10-08, 01:15 AM
So if Cale inadvertently ruined a chance at peace, and both Cale and Richard decided to **** off for a year . . . Shouldn't Cale's little Kethenecia project have been destroyed and all their friends imprisoned or killed by now?

Vinyadan
2013-10-08, 04:42 AM
Right. "I like it" and "it's good" are two totally different things.

So it just confuses me when people hear "it's not good" and answer "well I like it" Well yeah, there are people out there who like the Star Wars Christmas Special and can't come up with any compelling reasons why. I liked Evanescence as a bratty teen and that didn't stop it from being awful music.

I mean, what do you expect to hear in response to that? "No you don't"? "Your authoritative stance on the matter has convinced me to shut up and go away"? (And if the latter, that's fine among friends but has that ever worked on the Internet?)

Has anything ever worked on the Internet? And, anyway, "I like it" is an argument. You could have written the best work of fiction in the history of mankind, but, if no one likes it, it is pretty much garbage, or just a dead corpse from which other writers can rip out something to put in their own novels, which people will anyway still read because they are good and people like it.
Art may not be perfectly identical with common taste, but art which never, ever met someone's taste is a complete failure.
You also take it as granted that everyone has the critical means to analyze a narrative and extrapolate its constitutive elements to judge them, which simply isn't true.


If you don't enjoy reading it, stop reading it. It really is that simple.


Have you ever seen the Dominic Deegan threads? :smallcool:

But I admit that having a lot of heavy criticism can be disruptive. Personally, I would never write in the forum of a comic I don't like, because I think fans deserve having a place to discuss without people coming and ruining their fun. The EGS forum had such a problem and became an unbearable place, because those with a very embittered attitude towards the comic and the author couldn't write without being very aggressive.

But, well, here we are on common ground, so I write what I think :smallwink:

Traab
2013-10-08, 06:01 AM
So if Cale inadvertently ruined a chance at peace, and both Cale and Richard decided to **** off for a year . . . Shouldn't Cale's little Kethenecia project have been destroyed and all their friends imprisoned or killed by now?

Well we dont know what happened during the last year. They have only been on the island itself for a day.

Guancyto
2013-10-08, 04:28 PM
Has anything ever worked on the Internet?Sometimes? Occasionally? Maybe once?
Not even once.


And, anyway, "I like it" is an argument.
It's an argument from authority! "I like it" and tacitly "and you should care what I think because after all, I thought it."

You have a point about universally-disliked art being a failure, though, at least in entertainment media (which LFG is, so I won't belabor the point). It has succeeded in entertaining a dude, so it has... succeeded in that.


You also take it as granted that everyone has the critical means to analyze a narrative and extrapolate its constitutive elements to judge them, which simply isn't true.

Man, the people who read Ctrl-Alt-Del and Garfield can put together a half-decent case for keeping up with it. I would understand if this were, as you say, the o-forums, but on a thread on another board explicitly for discussing it... I dunno, in context it reads like a 'shut up and go away everyone you're discussing it wrong.'

Nourjan
2013-10-08, 06:43 PM
There is still liking it and recognising its ridiculous flaws.I wouldn't still be reading if I don't enjoy it at some level,irrespective how pathetic of a webcomic LFG really is.

Kislath
2013-10-18, 02:02 PM
Well, at least they're getting off of the island and back into the story. It should be interesting to see what happened over the year of their absence.

It occurred to me that while it's silly for Richard to make the "Back to the Future" references, things like that happen in WoW all the time, so it's really not all that out of place. I lol'ed when I heard Richard yell "Marty!" and imagined him doing a pretty good Christopher Lloyd impression.

Did any of you ever do the WoW quest "Red Snapper--very tasty!" and get the joke?

tavo2
2013-10-29, 11:41 AM
From licd web site

POSTED OCTOBER 29TH, 2013 BY RYAN SOHMER
Epiphanies can be scary things sometimes, not so much in what they reveal, but in how far off course weve gotten.

Over the last few months, Ive spent a great deal of time on the LFG Movie. Budgets, meetings, story editing, meetings, budgets, etcIve worked on this film for the last 6 years of my life, and more than anyone, I want to see it on screen.

And then, like a ton of bricks made of other, heavier, bricks, it hit me in the head-

LFG works better as a series, than a standalone feature.

After all this time, its dawning on me, that LFG should be an animated series, and not a feature film. So Ive spent the last month on it, and the more we work on the animated series, the more we realize its the right way to go.

Now, we need to shoot a pilot for it: a 22-minute animated adventure starring Richard and Cale.

In all likelihood, well be hitting Kickstarter to raise up some funds for this, and shelving the movie and the game for the foreseeable future.

You guys with me on this? Is the LFG Animated Series something worth pursuing?

-Because I Can.





A 20 minute episode is way cheaper than a 90 minutes movie, If he doesnt make pull a teletoon tantrum like last time he could Sell it to networks

Darius123
2013-10-29, 04:59 PM
Huh. Funny how most of Sohmer's epiphanies seem to involve other people giving him large sums of money.

Reverent-One
2013-10-29, 06:16 PM
Huh. Funny how most of Sohmer's epiphanies seem to involve other people giving him large sums of money.

That is generally how these things work in media. Person comes up with idea, person gets funding to produce idea. It's just more in the public eye now thanks to the use of crowdfunding options like kickstarter.

tavo2
2013-10-29, 06:32 PM
looking at the comments but seems that paying readers got mad at sohmer at least learned that the least i could do pilot got leaked

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn3ampgWtRI
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9FPQ4GVM2k

Darius123
2013-10-29, 06:41 PM
That is generally how these things work in media. Person comes up with idea, person gets funding to produce idea. It's just more in the public eye now thanks to the use of crowdfunding options like kickstarter.

Here's the thing, though - Sohmer's essentially asking his fanbase to shoulder some (if not all) of the financial risk of making this cartoon. And if the cartoon does turn out to be a success, and Sohmer becomes the next Seth Macfarlane or whatever, does his fanbase get a share of the proceeds? I'm guessing probably not.

Kinda seems like a raw deal to me.

Traab
2013-10-29, 06:49 PM
Thats why generally kickstarter programs have rewards. You are basically buying some swag and funding a project at the same time. He isnt asking 1 person for a million bucks, just a few bucks here and a few bucks there, and in return they get stuff like merchandise, collectables, signed hardcopies, whatever.

Reverent-One
2013-10-29, 06:54 PM
Thats why generally kickstarter programs have rewards. You are basically buying some swag and funding a project at the same time. He isnt asking 1 person for a million bucks, just a few bucks here and a few bucks there, and in return they get stuff like merchandise, collectables, signed hardcopies, whatever.

Basically this, plus there's, you know, making whatever the project is about possible. I'm pretty sure most people who pledge for it do want the show to happen. I mean, if Joss Whedon did a kickstarter to restart Firefly, I'd be there in an instant.

Darius123
2013-10-29, 07:06 PM
Thats why generally kickstarter programs have rewards. You are basically buying some swag and funding a project at the same time. He isnt asking 1 person for a million bucks, just a few bucks here and a few bucks there, and in return they get stuff like merchandise, collectables, signed hardcopies, whatever.

Well, we'll have to see what kind of rewards he's going to offer. But judging by the Kickstarter for the LICD pilot... well, I wouldn't get my hopes up.


Basically this, plus there's, you know, making whatever the project is about possible. I'm pretty sure most people who pledge for it do want the show to happen. I mean, if Joss Whedon did a kickstarter to restart Firefly, I'd be there in an instant.

And if they love LFG enough to donate money towards it, hey, more power to 'em. Personally, I'd want some kind of return on my investment, but hey, maybe that's just me. *shrug*

Trazoi
2013-10-29, 07:14 PM
The way Kickstarter works, getting the cartoon made is meant to be the main reward for investment. The only possible problem will be if Sohmer phrases his kickstarter in such a way as it sounds like pledging fans will be getting more than just a pilot episode.

slayerx
2013-10-29, 09:17 PM
Here's the thing, though - Sohmer's essentially asking his fanbase to shoulder some (if not all) of the financial risk of making this cartoon. And if the cartoon does turn out to be a success, and Sohmer becomes the next Seth Macfarlane or whatever, does his fanbase get a share of the proceeds? I'm guessing probably not.

Kinda seems like a raw deal to me.

Getting the cartoon made IS the reward for their money. The donors WANT to see the project be made; they are entertained by what he makes; if he makes what they want isn't that reward enough. I mean its not like the donors are giving him thousands of dollars; they are mostly only giving him a few bucks... and with kickstarter, those who DO give more, usually get some additional reward that's meant to be worth the amount you are donating.

Really, if people didn't have a personal desire for these projects to be made, then they would not donate anything at all. This is unlike publishers... publishers DON'T care about seeing your product be made; the only reason they invest money is because they expect a return on the investment. Its a different relationship. If the ONLY reason you would donate to a project is to make money back from it (even though you are not one doing any of the work), then don't donate... Only donate if you WANT to see the product itself get made. That's why people donate to kickstarters. We give them a few bucks, and they in return make something to entertain us.

Olinser
2013-10-29, 10:10 PM
Getting the cartoon made IS the reward for their money. The donors WANT to see the project be made; they are entertained by what he makes; if he makes what they want isn't that reward enough. I mean its not like the donors are giving him thousands of dollars; they are mostly only giving him a few bucks... and with kickstarter, those who DO give more, usually get some additional reward that's meant to be worth the amount you are donating.

Really, if people didn't have a personal desire for these projects to be made, then they would not donate anything at all. This is unlike publishers... publishers DON'T care about seeing your product be made; the only reason they invest money is because they expect a return on the investment. Its a different relationship. If the ONLY reason you would donate to a project is to make money back from it (even though you are not one doing any of the work), then don't donate... Only donate if you WANT to see the product itself get made. That's why people donate to kickstarters. We give them a few bucks, and they in return make something to entertain us.

That is, in fact, the entire point of Kickstarter.

At its core, it is essentially somebody saying, "I want to make X product/comic/item! Please help me make it!" People that want to see it made pledge them a few dollars each because they are interested in seeing it made.

Certainly you CAN offer rewards and incentives for donations, but to be blunt, most of the time any reward you get you could just straight out buy a lot cheaper anyway (unless we are talking intangibles like signed copies).

The 'return' on the investment is seeing the end result produced. If it is not produced, your money is returned to you. In other words, you have a zero-risk investment.

Reverent-One
2013-10-29, 10:27 PM
The 'return' on the investment is seeing the end result produced. If it is not produced, your money is returned to you. In other words, you have a zero-risk investment.

Much as I like Kickstarter, that's not entirely true. While your money isn't taken unless the goal is reached, that doesn't mean that after the fact the project can't run into troubles or simply be run by sketchy people and not come to completion.

Trazoi
2013-10-29, 10:59 PM
Has the LICD pilot caused that series to be picked up anywhere, or is it dead in the water? I'm assuming the latter because I can't see how Sohmer would be working on two animated series simultaneously.

Vinyadan
2013-10-30, 11:53 AM
I like the idea, and it looks perfect for the C&R, especially if they don't make a huge overarching plot but just episodes.

Anyway, this is why I don't like Kickstarter: you never know if you will get what you paid for. Even professional people rarely meet their deadlines when giving what they promised, but this is even more complicated. Previously posted in the description of the TIW Kickstarter:

No one is going to let us make the movie we want to make so we are going to have to do it ourselves and that means we need funding. Why not just aim for the fences and try to Kickstarter the full movie? Well, it's been over 6 years since we announced the movie. Do people still care? Are people willing to contribute to it?

We have had successes with Kickstarter and we have had failures. We desperately do not want the LFG movie to be counted among our failures so we are going to take this nice and slow. First, in order to see how interested our fans would be in helping us make the movie we want to finish the animation for "This Is War". With that animation finished, we can use it to drum-up support for the full movie as well as additional financing. It will also help with pre-production elements for the movie.

So, even though it wasn't really written in a binding way, the idea of a film was strongly implied in the Kickstarter. Now there will probably be no film.

As I said, I think the change was done for good, but I don't like how badly calculated the moves are.

slayerx
2013-10-30, 06:51 PM
The 'return' on the investment is seeing the end result produced. If it is not produced, your money is returned to you. In other words, you have a zero-risk investment.

That is incorrect. You only get your money back if the kickstarter fails to meet its funding goal. However if the funding goal is met, then your money is considered spent no matter what becomes of the project. And kickstarter HAS seen numerous projects fail... A big reason for this comes from the creators grossly underestimating costs, or failed to take something important costs wise into account and end up blowing through their funding too quickly. There are any number of the things that could go wrong with a project.

THAT is a risk you take to your investment. You invest with the aim being to see the project made, and the risk is the project somehow failing after it goes into production.

Ofcourse, should a project fail, then it will effect the creator's ability to get another project off the ground. If I recall, Sohmer saw this happen with his last kickstarter, the lfg game, since he had not yet finished the animated LFG short he did his previous kickstarter(granted he was also asking for a lot more money)... I recall a lot of reactions from fans that amounted to them not trusting him, and wanting to see him deliver on his last kickstarter before starting another. Though now he has delievered on that short so he might see better luck with a Pilot. Atleast with the piilot we know they have the animation ability to get it done... they just need to make sure they don't underestimate the funding needed.

Arkhosia
2013-11-07, 05:33 PM
I eat my cereal dry
Without milk
Like a sociopath.
Best. quote. ever.

fwiffo
2013-11-08, 01:03 AM
I eat my cereal dry
Without milk
Like a sociopath.
Best. quote. ever.

People might as well stop making webcomics now. The pinnacle of perfection has finally been achieved. Heck, why stop at webcomics? TV, movies, regular comics, all really kinda moot now. So are books. Why bother?

Oy!

The word of the day is Kickstarter. I know all yall are shocked.

T-O-E
2013-11-08, 12:15 PM
I believe that's actually an Oscar Wilde quote.

Pyra
2013-11-08, 02:55 PM
I never eat cereal with milk. It makes it squishy and feels weird in my mouth like I'm eating bugs. And I don't like eating bugs. I like my corn flakes crunchy. So apparently I'm a sociopath:smalleek:

In other news, LFG really needs to be renamed the 'Cale and Richard Show'.

Arkhosia
2013-11-08, 11:42 PM
I never eat cereal with milk. It makes it squishy and feels weird in my mouth like I'm eating bugs. And I don't like eating bugs. I like my corn flakes crunchy. So apparently I'm a sociopath:smalleek:

In other news, LFG really needs to be renamed the 'Cale and Richard Show'.

Same here, fellow cereal killer! :smalltongue:

Vinyadan
2013-11-09, 04:49 AM
I never eat cereal with milk. It makes it squishy and feels weird in my mouth like I'm eating bugs. And I don't like eating bugs. I like my corn flakes crunchy. So apparently I'm a sociopath:smalleek:

If you had said "I like my cereals like I like my women: crunchy", that would have been quite sociopathical :smallbiggrin: I never ate cereals with milk, but I remember attempting and finding that puffed rice covered in chocolate was much better eaten alone.


In other news, LFG really needs to be renamed the 'Cale and Richard Show'.


I think it would be a nice step towards taking a stable direction in the strip, instead of wobbling aimlessly through surreal humor and badly stretched plots.

Tengu_temp
2013-11-09, 02:02 PM
Even that wouldn't save the webcomic, because Richard is a horrible character. He's Black Mage without anything that makes Black Mage funny. Black Mage always gets bitten in the ass by karma in the end, and it's the pain and indignities he suffers (which he brought up on himself) that make him work. Richard just kills people in "hilarious" ways, is overpowered, and never suffers any real repercussions.

The Glyphstone
2013-11-09, 02:33 PM
It's more like the Richard and Richard show, with guest stars Every Other Character.

T-O-E
2013-11-09, 02:37 PM
Even that wouldn't save the webcomic, because Richard is a horrible character. He's Black Mage without anything that makes Black Mage funny. Black Mage always gets bitten in the ass by karma in the end, and it's the pain and indignities he suffers (which he brought up on himself) that make him work. Richard just kills people in "hilarious" ways, is overpowered, and never suffers any real repercussions.

Richard is also the author's power fantasy in a way that BM never was. Richard is basically Rayne only obsessed with evil instead of sex. I'm surprised he wasn't named Rianus but Richard still begins with an R.

Traab
2013-11-09, 05:11 PM
Even that wouldn't save the webcomic, because Richard is a horrible character. He's Black Mage without anything that makes Black Mage funny. Black Mage always gets bitten in the ass by karma in the end, and it's the pain and indignities he suffers (which he brought up on himself) that make him work. Richard just kills people in "hilarious" ways, is overpowered, and never suffers any real repercussions.

You forgot, he is only overpowered when he needs to be, the rest of the time he is mostly useless and annoying. Lets face it, there have been well over a dozen times where his overpowering ability to make everything dead has utterly failed to do anything in a fight. I think it generally works out to, "What would be more amusing for me to write? Richard one shotting everything? Or being useless and making HILARIOUS one liners the whole fight?"

t209
2013-11-09, 07:47 PM
It's more like the Richard and Richard show, with guest stars Every Other Character.
Would be better if he chose "WoW comic". Albeit a stupid one.
Kinda remind me of Grant Morrison comic, albeit worse and less weird.

Vinyadan
2013-11-18, 04:01 AM
If someone's interested, the LFG - Animated Series Kickstarter will be running for some more 23 days.

I wonder how Sohmer is supposed to be writing books in the meantime.

The Pilgrim
2013-11-18, 07:24 AM
The webcomic began well. Then I turned 18 years old and stopped being funny.

Kislath
2013-12-09, 03:55 PM
The funny is back! Yay!

Vinyadan
2013-12-12, 04:21 AM
The kickstarter failed. I'd like to post some kind of half explanation half rant, but the whole thing honestly got ridiculous. The fact that I hate seeing projects fail also makes me sour. But BF really needs a master in PR.

Doompuppy
2013-12-12, 07:32 AM
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll start another Kickstarter next week.

T-O-E
2013-12-13, 03:50 PM
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll start another Kickstarter next week.

Lookinh for Group: Kickstarting an Undead Pony

Darius123
2013-12-14, 02:09 PM
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll start another Kickstarter next week.

Nope! He's doing Patreon now.

Vinyadan
2013-12-16, 05:34 AM
Nope! He's doing Patreon now.

It's funny how these things work: it's like taking a bank loan, only you don't have to give the money back.

Anyway, if these (http://www.patreon.com/sohmer)are the rare ideas worth of being proposed to the public, I don't want to see what lies in Sohmer's recycle bin.

T-O-E
2013-12-16, 02:09 PM
That is the worst ad I've ever seen. I now want to make a substantial negative donation.


At just 35 years of age, Ryan Sohmer has amassed a body of comics writing work that rivals those twice his age.

The Glyphstone
2013-12-16, 08:49 PM
I'm trying to come up with a list of 70+ year old comic writers. I have no entries except Charles Schulz, who is A) dead, and B) has more to his name than Sohmer.

tavo2
2013-12-16, 10:06 PM
That is the worst ad I've ever seen. I now want to make a substantial negative donation.

Osamu tesuka and jack kirby are in another level,
In current comics media geoff johns and echiro Oda have done more in less time

Vinyadan
2013-12-17, 10:55 AM
I'm trying to come up with a list of 70+ year old comic writers. I have no entries except Charles Schulz, who is A) dead, and B) has more to his name than Sohmer.

Massimo Mattioli, Claudio Nizzi, Max Bunker, Luciana Giussani (who died in 2001) all reached 70, and the work of everyone of them is such, that trying to say that they do the same job as Sohmer would be insulting them.

Fates
2013-12-18, 05:58 PM
It's funny how these things work: it's like taking a bank loan, only you don't have to give the money back.

Anyway, if these (http://www.patreon.com/sohmer)are the rare ideas worth of being proposed to the public, I don't want to see what lies in Sohmer's recycle bin.

Fer jeezis friggin BAH!

Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

Is anyone else bugged by Sohmer's apparent obsession with Nazi Germany?

Vinyadan
2013-12-19, 09:26 AM
Is anyone else bugged by Sohmer's apparent obsession with Nazi Germany?

I am bugged more by the way in which he handles it, as I feel it leads to an "innocouization" of the concept.

tavo2
2013-12-19, 10:08 AM
The webcomic overlook did a very cool essay
About sohmers kickstarters
http://webcomicoverlook.com/2013/12/15/because-he-can/

tavo2
2014-01-08, 01:30 PM
from twitter

. @sohmer: Opened up comments on individual pages on LFG. Well see how quickly I regret that decision.

Right away since he took out his forums a while ago

Kislath
2014-01-09, 02:55 PM
The funny is back! Not yet sidesplitting, but it's definitely an improvement.