swordsage prestige class houserule

[DreadWarlock]

my player asked if he can qualify for arcane spellcasting prestige classes to advance his initiator level and to gain more maneuvres and stances(there is a broken variant of swordsage with arcane spells so why not the other way- an arcane prestige that advances swordsage maneuvres). I as a DM don't mind this adaptation but I don't know if it is too unbalanced for my game. playground pls help

[The Mentalist]

I can't think of a benefit of it off the top of my head but it doesn't seem broken to me. I mean most of the big broken PrCs for casting actually require you to cast so yeah, have fun.

It could be a pretty awesome character idea actually...

*scurries off to notebooks*

[DreadWarlock]

the general idea is a binder/swordsage/anima mage that i need to edit a little to fit the tob stuff...

[The Mentalist]

Oh that would be AWESOME! Hold on a moment, if you're willing to houserule already there's a homebrew template that might do what he wants for starting Binder...

I can't find it but I saved it in my folders

Chosen of the Void
A chosen of the void is a being born into the world that has drawn the attention of an entity is that should not exist. One of the forgotten, more than dead yet somehow still alive beings that exist beyond our simple realm. Vestiges, stretching out their unexplained powers and somehow able to attach themselves to a creature’s soul at the moment of their birth.

Creating a Chosen of the Void
Chosen of the void is an inherited template that can be applied to any living corporeal creature with an intelligence score of 4 or more (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Upon applying this template you must choose a vestige from the list below as the vestige that has bonded with the base creature. A chosen of the void will always have it’s vestige’s seal as a birthmark somewhere upon its body.

A chosen of the void uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Special Qualities
A chosen of the void retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following:

Chosen Vessel (Su): The chosen of the void is born with a connection to the vestige that chose it. The chosen of the void is bound to the vestige constantly, and it cannot be expelled. The chosen of the void is always under the influence of the of the vestige, but can resist any requirement it has by succeeding on a Will saving throw with a DC 10 + the vestige’s level (it does not take the standard -1 penalty if it makes the save). Increase the DC by 1 for each successful save made in the last hour. The chosen of the void’s effective binder level for this vestige is equal to its HD. Any granted ability that occurs upon binding renews each day.

If the chosen of the void binds another vestige to itself it loses all the granted abilities of vestige gained from this template and has a -2 penalty to its effective binder level for as long as the other vestige is bound. The chosen of the void is still under the influence of the vestige, and retains all the other effects of this template. If the binder can bind more than one vestige it the vestige granted by this template takes up one of those slots permanently, and the chosen of the void no longer loses the granted abilities or suffers a -2 penalty if it binds another vestige.

Claimed Soul: When a vestige claims a soul for their own, the claim extends beyond death and they are loath to give up that which is theirs. When a chosen of the void dies, its soul is pulled to the vestige bound to it. To raise a chosen of the void from the dead the caster of the spell must make a caster level check equal to 10 + the chosen of the void's HD + (2 times the vestige's level). If the caster fails the check then the spell fails, though any components used in the casting are still spent.

Favored from Beyond (Su): The chosen of the void gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against all mind-affecting spells and abilities.

Abilities
Change from the base creature as follows: +2 Con, +2 Cha
In addition the base creature’s abilities change depending on the vestige. See the table below.

Skills
The chosen of the void gains a +4 bonus to any knowledge check relating to the vestige bound to it, thanks to being bound to the vestige since birth. This can be related to the vestige itself, history surrounding or involving the vestige, legends about the vestige, or specific items or knowledge the vestige was interested in.

Feats
The chosen of the void gains the Favored Vestige feat even if it doesn’t meet the requirements. The favored vestige is always the vestige chosen for this template.

Favored Class
Some vestiges change the favored class of the base creature. See the table below.

Challenge Rating
See the table below.

Level Adjustment
See the table below.

Not sure if it will be of use to you but I'm fond of it for some of my games.

[Sith_Happens]

the general idea is a binder/swordsage/anima mage that i need to edit a little to fit the tob stuff...

Off the top of my head, the big thing that Anima Mage does is let you apply a metamagic feat for free by expelling a vestige. Maybe change that to using a maneuver without expending it?

[DreadWarlock]

there is no table for level adj :S but i like my players with no adjustments cuz they begin play at 1st lvl, but thx anyway

[The Mentalist]

Okay, figured I'd show off one of my old favorites. Best of luck with your rebuild.

[Chronos]

I'd say that the primary big thing that Anima Mage does is it lets you advance your binding and spellcasting at the same time. The metamagic stuff is really just icing on the cake.

[Callin]

I tried to work this one time... see he does not cast spells he initiates maneuvers. The variant does not change this only allows him to choose spells as maneuvers. So it is honestly up to you whether he can do this and how powerful you think it will be. He already has an unlimited use spells and is asking to combine that with unlimited use vestiges. See where this is going?

[Cog]

Maybe change that to using a maneuver without expending it?
Using a maneuver without expending it is basically equivalent to an ability that recovers a single maneuver - in fact, it's a little weaker, since it limits your choice of what you recover. That seems a little light compared both to free metamagic or the cost of losing access to one of your few vestiges bound.

Recovering all your maneuvers, like Adaptive Style but with a better action cost, or perhaps getting to use a maneuver at a discounted action cost (move action for a strike, free action for a boost) might be more suited, and either can be fluffed in pretty easily.

[DreadWarlock]

I tried to work this one time... see he does not cast spells he initiates maneuvers. The variant does not change this only allows him to choose spells as maneuvers. So it is honestly up to you whether he can do this and how powerful you think it will be. He already has an unlimited use spells and is asking to combine that with unlimited use vestiges. See where this is going?

Im afraid you got it wrong... The question was if it is ok to let maneuvres qualify for arcane prestige classes and to let them advance maneuvres instead of spells

[Callin]

No I understood just fine and said that it is up to you as the DM. Then I went into some detail of the build. Unlimited Spells that are Ex and not subject to any SR of AMF or Spell Immunity. Along with Vestiges that can be used over and over again.

Depending on his choices and his optimization the character is going to be very powerful. So no I personally would most likely not allow it.

However... if you think he can keep it down to a low t2 or so roar and wont disrupt your game and suck the fun outta it. Then by all means let the player have fun. It gives more options and that is usually a good thing.

[DreadWarlock]

and again... He wants to use a regular swordsage, not the arcane swordsage

[Callin]

I saw the mention Arcane Swordsage and for some reason glossed over the part where you said why not the other way lol...

Hmmm thats not nearly as bad lol but it will give him maneuvers faster than the normal Initiator PrC's. So maybe cut it down to example a 10/10 progression down to a 6 or even a 5/10 to keep inline with the other ones.

Either way its not gonna be that much of a game changer in my opinion.

(next time please fully correct me instead of just saying "wrong you dont get it" :smallwink: )