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Frosty
2013-05-10, 08:53 PM
Ok, so there an NPC that, while pretty useful out of combat, is mostly useless IN combat. I want to change that, and I think I'll have the ability to make minor changes to the character like choices of feats and rogue talents, but if I want to change a few levels of classes I'll probably have to do a quest or something.

Basically, we've got a Bard [Archaeologist] 6 / Dragon Disciple [White dragon] 2. The DD part came due to plot.

Stats are: 11 str, 15 dex, 12 con, 16 int, 9 wis, 17 cha.

Feats:
Imp. Initiative (Bloodline)
Weapon Finesse
TWF
Agile Maneuvers
Combat Casting

Rogue Talent:
Charmer 2/day (Reroll diplomacy, take better roll)

Yeah, she's got the ability to grow claws and she's got a bite, but even with weapon finesse she's really not doing jack (The DM is not very good at providing me with quality NPCs from a combat perspective except in a few circumstances). So, where can I take her from here to make her useful in combat? Have her use a whip and go down the Improved Trip line? Is there any way I can get the character to add her CHA to-hit without using hard to find equipment (no magic mart here).

If I do manage to complete a quest to reverse her dragon-blood (a mad alchemist injected her with some stuff, and now she has scales, claws, etc), what should I replace the DD levels with? Archaeologist is just not attractive at all after level 6.

Tholomyes
2013-05-10, 08:59 PM
If it's an NPC, I don't understand the need to follow an exact formula for building the character. Honestly that's one of the greatest flaws 3.x has, even moreso than some of the pretty horrendous mathematical decisions, is the idea that NPCs have to be built like PCs. Sure, it may be helpful, if it allows you to make roughly balanced encounters, but if the character isn't effective, I don't see why you shouldn't fudge the numbers a bit. Maybe an extra +1 to hit, or a bonus to damage, or whatever.

Essentially, if you're the DM, what's most important isn't that the NPCs are built exactly to some specification, but that they fill the role that they are supposed to. If this NPC should be useful in combat, give some arbitrary bonuses.

Unless, I'm misunderstanding something. I notice you mention another DM, though you say this is an NPC, is this a Dual DM game? Even in such a case, arbitrary bonuses aren't out of the question.

Frosty
2013-05-10, 09:07 PM
I'm in a solo campaign. The NPCs are party members, most of which have been unoptimized. Due to the number of NPCs to deal with, the DM has asked me to help him with leveling up the characters and making good choices to help them be more effective.

I'm about to raise this half-elf bard/DD from the dead. I want to make sure she dies less easily in the future.

Tholomyes
2013-05-10, 09:22 PM
Ok, I'm understanding a bit better. Unfortunately, I don't really think I can help much with Cha-to-hit, unless you're allowed 3.5 feats, which I'd direct you Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732). Unfortunately, I've found bards, especially Archaeologist bards, difficult to build adequately, since they're jacks-of-all-trades, in a system that really rewards specialization.

Edit: also, the homebrew option, to borrow from this here webcomic: The Dashing Swordsman (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Dashing_Swordsman)

Frosty
2013-05-10, 09:24 PM
If she had a better Dex score, I'd just have her go down the archery route...I wonder if I can get the DM to switch some ability scores around...

Callin
2013-05-10, 09:26 PM
You could always use the money to hire someone a tad bit more competent and what you are looking for... :smallbiggrin:

Frosty
2013-05-10, 09:36 PM
You could always use the money to hire someone a tad bit more competent and what you are looking for... :smallbiggrin:Eh, no gold needed. I get to raise people for free (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ultimate-mercy).

Slipperychicken
2013-05-10, 09:51 PM
To be fair to your DM, he's erring on the side of caution by making your NPC buddies so weak, allowing you to hog the glory and be a badass (as is your right as the only PC). If they were too strong, it would raise the question "why are the NPCs keeping this loser around?", which is no fun at all.

Tholomyes
2013-05-10, 09:58 PM
Though, I think too far on the side of caution, if said NPC is currently deceased, and the resources were allocated on said feat, meaning this may not be a singular occurrence.

Frosty
2013-05-10, 10:47 PM
To be fair to your DM, he's erring on the side of caution by making your NPC buddies so weak, allowing you to hog the glory and be a badass (as is your right as the only PC). If they were too strong, it would raise the question "why are the NPCs keeping this loser around?", which is no fun at all.I am already the strongest PC, and get max HP per level.

The question of why the NPCs might keep me around is...easily answered. We're all close friends. And also, I'm the only known mortal in the area that can raise dead (no known clerics within a huuuuge area. Maybe none on this world at all. Only Adepts that aren't high enough level.)

Though, I think too far on the side of caution, if said NPC is currently deceased, and the resources were allocated on said feat, meaning this may not be a singular occurrence.Technically speaking, this has been a singular occurrence, and I think the PC died to give my character the in-character motivation to work towards that feat (I told the DM 2 levels early that I'll be taking that feat, so I guess he planned an entire arc around me getting Ultimate Mercy).

But, that she is weak is not in dispute.

Baroncognito
2013-05-11, 03:24 AM
Is there anyone on your team that uses a x4 or x3 crit weapon?

If so, you could always give her a keen rapier and Butterfly's Sting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical)

avr
2013-05-11, 04:35 AM
An arcane duelist makes a better chop-things-up bard than does an archaeologist, if that's any help.

If not, you've made no mention of spells. Might she be more use casting area buffs and debuffs than getting into melee? Bards get some excellent buffs and some decent debuffs, often at lower spell levels than full casters do so they can cast such spells at similar character levels to the full casters.