(PF) Disruption weapon worth it?

[Sylthia]

Is a Mace of Disruption (or other disruption weapon) really worth it? It makes undead make a Will save DC 14 or be destroyed, that sounds nice, but by the time you can get something with a +3 equivalent bonus (disruption is +2 equivalent), DC 14 is pretty easy to overcome for the type's best save.

Any enemies that are likely to fail the save are probably going to drop pretty fast anyway, and the stronger undead often have Will as their best save, so they will likely only fail on a natural 1, or at least have to roll very low.

I also don't like introducing another roll into the game that is probably going to fail 95% of the time. It would just slow down combat even more than it can get sometimes.

It seems like an Undead Bane weapon would be better at only the cost of a +1 bonus and its effect doesn't rely on saving throws.

[Keneth]

I agree, I've never found disruption weapons worth it. It's not that different from a vorpal weapon though.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's not worth it. It exists solely to be randomly rolled on a found weapon so the DM can be all like, "you find a magical falcata!", you can go, "Finally! What kind?", DM can go, "+1 Falcata of Disruption!" and you can say, "....Sell the ****ing thing," then run off and cry.

EDIT: Whoops, PF. No one in their right mind would use a spiked chain in PF. Changed the example.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Yeah, the enchantment is terrible, especially considering that by the time you can craft the item you'll have access to the disrupting weapon spell. Which starts with a save of 17, and can be applied to any weapon at the right moment.

[Arael666]

they will likely only fail on a natural 1, or at least have to roll very low.

The fact that the undead has to roll a save for every successefull hit make it worth it. A 11ish lvl fighter with a haste spell can do a minimum of 4 attacks in a full attack, assuming all of them hit, it's 4 will save for just one attacker.

I can't do the math, but i belive increasing the save DC would have disastrous implications, such as the party never, ever, encountering an undead, ever again.

[El Dorado]

It's okay if you find it but I wouldn't go shopping for one.

[Keneth]

No one in their right mind would use a spiked chain in PF.

Sure they would, it's still a decent weapon, as long as you get the proficiency for free.

[zlefin]

not worth the cost; but of some mild use if you happen to find one. Having holy or bane: undead is better.

[Sylthia]

Pretty much what I thought.

I don't think any DM would want to add more pointless Will saves to combat. It can already take over an hour.

[Phelix-Mu]

Which is all kind of sad because the old version in 2e was pretty badass. Don't remember the details, but it sure seemed to work more often than it does in the newer editions.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Sure they would, it's still a decent weapon, as long as you get the proficiency for free.

It's inferior to most martial weapons and even some simple weapons.

[Lord Vukodlak]

It's inferior to most martial weapons and even some simple weapons.

Heavy Fail is superior in damage, critical rate, and has the same disarm and trip properties. The only advantage is the spiked chain can be finessed. The least they could have done was given it a 18-20x2 crit rate so it would be an improvement over the more damaging heavy flail. Or made it a martial weapon.

[Squirrel_Dude]

It's inferior to most martial weapons and even some simple weapons.The simple weapons claim is too strong. The fact that it can be finessed is nice, as are the bonuses to trip and disarm. Besides that, it does as as much or more damage than any simple weapon, and it has Reach.

But yes, it has been seriously nerfed. Just not that far. After all, it will always be better than a fire lance.

[turbo164]

It's not worth it. It exists solely to be randomly rolled on a found weapon so the DM can be all like, "you find a magical falcata!", you can go, "Finally! What kind?", DM can go, "+1 Falcata of Disruption!" and you can say, "....Sell the ****ing thing," then run off and cry.

EDIT: Whoops, PF. No one in their right mind would use a spiked chain in PF. Changed the example.

And both Spiked Chain and Falcatas are Slashing, while the book version of Disruption is Bludgeoning only :smalltongue:

If I were to ever give one to a player, I'd probably houserule it to also give a couple d6 damage on a failed save, to make it more comparable to UndeadBane.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The simple weapons claim is too strong. The fact that it can be finessed is nice, as are the bonuses to trip and disarm. Besides that, it does as much more more damage than any simple weapon, and it has Reach.

But yes, it has been seriously nerfed. Just not that far. After all, it will always be better than a fire lance.

Any weapon in PF can be used to trip, all the trip designation does is let you drop it if you fubar the trip attempt. And let you use it on reposition and drag maneuvers. And it does not have reach. It does have disarm bonus, sadly that is seldom even a useful maneuver. And finesse...but there are better finesse weapons.

I would take the longspear or morningstar (depending on my needs) over spiked chain any day, and that's even if it didn't cost a feat.


And both Spiked Chain and Falcatas are Slashing, while the book version of Disruption is Bludgeoning only :smalltongue:

Ok, on that matter I screwed up. :smallsmile:

Disruption is so useless I never even bothered to notice the bludgeoning only restriction.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Any weapon in PF can be used to trip, all the trip designation does is let you drop it if you fubar the trip attempt. And let you use it on reposition and drag maneuvers. And it does not have reach. It does have disarm bonus, sadly that is seldom even a useful maneuver. And finesse...but there are better finesse weapons.

I would take the longspear or morningstar (depending on my needs) over spiked chain any day, and that's even if it didn't cost a feat..As someone who bemoans about how much harder it is to make a trip attempt in Pathfinder, I thought you'd notice the increased importance of being able to drop the weapon.

I agree it's not worth the feat anymore.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you have much chance at all of failing by 10+, you shouldn't be bothering to trip in the first place.

Whether or not tripping is so bad in PF that most characters fall into that category is independent of that.

[Keneth]

It's inferior to most martial weapons and even some simple weapons.

Yeah, but it's cool. It's not worth wasting a feat on, but then no weapon proficiency is really worth wasting a feat on.

[Sylthia]

It seems that almost none of the exotic weapons are worth it at all.

The one that might be worth it is Dwarven Waraxe, if you're a dwarf, who gets the feat for free. It think there's a few here and there in supplemental materials. Bastard sword can be nice, but is inferior to other weapons.

You'd think there would be more exotic weapons that had superior qualities, or at least had bigger damage dice. I can't think of a single two-handed weapon in core that is superior to a greatsword.

I think there's something like "Mighty Axe" that does 2d8 damage, but I believe it's 3rd party material.

[Squirrel_Dude]

It seems that almost none of the exotic weapons are worth it at all.

The one that might be worth it is Dwarven Waraxe, if you're a dwarf, who gets the feat for free. It think there's a few here and there in supplemental materials. Bastard sword can be nice, but is inferior to other weapons. The Dwarven Waraxe was good, but now there's the Dwarven Double Waraxe which is .1% better and you get the proficiency in the same way. Dwarves also get the awesome Dwarven Longaxe. Apparently Dwarves should get all the good exotic weapons for free.

The Falcata and Dueling Sword are slightly nicer longswords, and on the topic of finessable two-handed weapons there is the elven curve blade. The fauchard is also pretty nice.

[Kyberwulf]

The only time I let a player get a Mace of disruption they proceeded to mess up every undead they encountered. I am serious. I had a master vampire necromancer. The Fighter walked right up to him. Hit him in the face. The Vampire rolled a one on his save.

After that, he put undead bane on the mace. It pretty much ended that campaign.

[Gavinfoxx]

The only time I let a player get a Mace of disruption they proceeded to mess up every undead they encountered. I am serious. I had a master vampire necromancer. The Fighter walked right up to him. Hit him in the face. The Vampire rolled a one on his save.

After that, he put undead bane on the mace. It pretty much ended that campaign.

Sounds like you were running a low-op game, then! You should learn better DM-craft...

[Sylthia]

The Dwarven Waraxe was good, but now there's the Dwarven Double Waraxe which is .1% better and you get the proficiency in the same way. Dwarves also get the awesome Dwarven Longaxe. Apparently Dwarves should get all the good exotic weapons for free.

The Falcata and Dueling Sword are slightly nicer longswords, and on the topic of finessable two-handed weapons there is the elven curve blade. The fauchard is also pretty nice.

Dwarves needs all the best weapons, for they are the superior race.

[Chained Birds]

The Dwarven Waraxe was good, but now there's the Dwarven Double Waraxe which is .1% better and you get the proficiency in the same way. Dwarves also get the awesome Dwarven Longaxe. Apparently Dwarves should get all the good exotic weapons for free.

The Falcata and Dueling Sword are slightly nicer longswords, and on the topic of finessable two-handed weapons there is the elven curve blade. The fauchard is also pretty nice.

How about the Kusari Gama? Isn't that the new spiked chain?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Personally, I'd rather use the double kama than the kusarigama. Same features of trip and disarm, same reach, same damage, same everything except you can retrieve one of the weapons as a free action if you drop it.