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View Full Version : A few questions about fate core rules



Kol Korran
2013-05-12, 11:56 PM
I'm new to the system, and I'm wondering about a few things. If this matters, assume the setting is a post apocalyptic Fallout style one.

1. The investigate skill when is it applied? I can imagine PC's investigating using a myriad of other skills: social skills to interrogate people, notice to search a crime scene, lore for specific tidbits of info and so... when does investigate come into play?

2. Permanent scene aspects such as pillars, darkness and so on... using them costs a fate point Evert time? So a guy hiding behind a pillar Burns fate points just by staying there?

3. Vehicles in the same battle as people on foot can you drive and shoot at the same time? How is movement through zones compared between walkers and drivers? Can you ram walkers? Do you still suffer full ramming damage? Do you cause more damage to "soft targets"?

That is all I have for now. Might have something more later.

Thanks!

Ranos
2013-05-13, 12:21 AM
1)It's an active perception/research skill. It finds things out. Notice couldn't search a crime scene, it's passive and only gives surface details. Lore isn't a research skill, it lets you simply know things, no research needed.

2)Depends. Why would he roll Stealth more than once ? Or do you mean taking cover ? Then yes, the pillar only helps his defense roll if he spends a fate point to make it matter. But it's not like he has to burn fate points constantly, he can skip it if the attack against him would normally miss. The invocation bonus is retroactive after all.

3)Not up to date on the Extras rules, so I'll leave that one to someone else.

Kol Korran
2013-05-13, 08:29 AM
1)It's an active perception/research skill. It finds things out. Notice couldn't search a crime scene, it's passive and only gives surface details. Lore isn't a research skill, it lets you simply know things, no research needed.

2)Depends. Why would he roll Stealth more than once ? Or do you mean taking cover ? Then yes, the pillar only helps his defense roll if he spends a fate point to make it matter. But it's not like he has to burn fate points constantly, he can skip it if the attack against him would normally miss. The invocation bonus is retroactive after all.

3)Not up to date on the Extras rules, so I'll leave that one to someone else.

Thanks for the. Clarification! Two more questions if I may:
4) how big is a zone roughly? Is there a general estimate, or is it entirely scene specific? I don't mind using battlefields with more zones than suggested in the book to mimic larger fields.

5) say a you wish to get the aid of another person, or e enough a large group: do you use rapport? Contacts? Resources?

dorward
2013-05-13, 10:22 AM
4) how big is a zone roughly? Is there a general estimate, or is it entirely scene specific? I don't mind using battlefields with more zones than suggested in the book to mimic larger fields.


It's scene and tone specific.

In a gritty fantasy game I split up a (very large) temple into a dozen zones, since getting from one end to the other was hard (and it made things tense when one party member got into trouble at one end while everyone else was at the other end).

As a counter point, in a sci-fi game, a solar system had only three zones.



5) say a you wish to get the aid of another person, or e enough a large group: do you use rapport? Contacts? Resources?

Rapport works if you're trying to charm or inspire someone into helping.

If you were trying to trick someone then deceive would come into play instead.

You might use provoke if you were trying to goad someone. ("Let's go, he'd probably just hold us back anyway").

Contacts is about finding people. You might use it to find someone who is likely to help (which could then either be someone who just will help or a boost for persuading whomever you do find).

Resources? If you're simply hiring a mercenary, then absolutely. Bribing a guard? Possibly, or maybe it would be a boost instead.

(For the contacts and resources examples, you might even play it where if you succeed you get a boost at a social roll but if you succeed with style then you bypass the need for that entirely.).

Edit: The skill that you use is far more about how you do something then it is about what you are trying to achieve. This is lampshaded in Fate Accelerated Edition where the skills (called Approaches there) are things like "Quickly" and "Cleverly" rather then being tied to a specific task.

John
2013-05-13, 11:18 AM
4) Zones are as big as you need them to be, but generally I split my rooms or areas into sections (like Close, Near, Far or "By the windows, by the desk, by the door) - but that's more bookkeeping than mechanical need.

5) It depends on HOW you're aiding them. Giving them money or items, that's Resources. Connecting them to the right person to talk to, that's Contacts. Rapport, I would use, as more a measure of HOW WELL the communication is going, not so much the desired goal of the communication. Also, a good Rapport roll may lead to dispensing more information than originally intended. Up to you.

mcellis
2013-05-13, 03:34 PM
1) Investigate is mainly applied when you are taking a lot of time to examine something. If you are really turning over a crime scene for clues, carefully checking for traps, or searching through archives, use Investigate. Lots of other skills can be used to find clues (aka create advantage) in lots of ways, but Investigate is all about observation over time.

2) Only if you want there to be a mechanical effect beyond the fictional positioning. You do not need to spend a fate point to use a pillar as cover or as a place to hide, but if you want it to actually matter during a roll then you need to spend a fate point.

3) This is where the Fate fractal is often useful for stating up vehicles and having them work on a different scale than characters. As for your specific questions, can you Shoot and Drive at once? Potentially, it really depends on what your character is doing in the scene. Driving a car and shooting out the window maybe, flying a fighter plane or starfighter absolutely, driving a tank unlikely, captaining a warship no. If you really need to justify it, use Drive to create an aspect that you can then invoke for permission to shoot

Movement through zones? You should probably handle this with opposed Drive and Athletics, but use common sense leveled with a dose of fiction. For instance a car is pretty much going to beat a person on foot, but if the zone is crowded with obstacles and the person is a freerunning champion who parkours over all those obstacles before the car can get around the second corner then that's how it goes. You can also simply compel the fact that they are in a car and the other person is on foot. What makes the game more interesting?

Running people over? You can absolutely attempt to ram walkers. You could either ignore the ramming damage to the vehicle, or just lower it. Doing more damage depends on how soft the target is, if it's a nameless NPC they are taken out easily anyway. Named NPCs or PCs can take getting hit by vehicles, but they'll probably take some consequences. Remember you can probably invoke your "In a Vehicle" aspect for some extra stress if you'd like.

4) Zones should be big enough for something interesting to happen in them, or big enough to add some challenge or obstacle to the scene, which is usually something interesting. What will the characters be doing in the zone? Even if it is just running across the battlefield and dodging artillery and machine gun fire, or just a fence to leap over there should always be something to do in a zone.

5) Pretty much any of those skills, and several others could be used to get the aid of a large group. But what skill you use depends on the approach you take and the effect you want. If you want to rally the troops with a rousing speech, Rapport. If you want to call upon friends and allies or people who owe you favors, Contacts. You want to drop the coin and hire a bunch of people to work for you, Resources. You want to rile up an angry mob against your enemies by making slanderous accusations about them, Provoke or Deceive depending on how you did it.

Kol Korran
2013-05-14, 11:34 AM
Thank you John and mcellis! Those are good answers, helping me a lot. :smallsmile: I wanted to refine some of my questions, If I may?



2) Only if you want there to be a mechanical effect beyond the fictional positioning. You do not need to spend a fate point to use a pillar as cover or as a place to hide, but if you want it to actually matter during a roll then you need to spend a fate point.
Ok, let me expand my questions further. I joined a PbP game online, and in the first battle there were a few aspects on the field. I was sure that using them cost FATE points, but apparently the other players invoked them for free at first, as if they had created an advantage. when I asked the GM he said this is because these aspects are considered to have been created by a very basic Notice roll, which he just didn't went through rolling.
Is this really the way it goes?

If so, lets say there is a sniper targeting the party, and a bunch of covers on the way to him. lets say a few characters wish to run and take cover moving from one cover to the next till they are in range of the sniper. how is it run?
a) all the covers can be used freely one time, but only for the first character (using the free invoke).
b) each character can free invoke the cover for herself (since they all "discovered" it?
c) No one can actually use a free invoke, but rather they each have to use a fate point every time they use a situation aspect (this seems right to me)


3)
Movement through zones? You should probably handle this with opposed Drive and Athletics, but use common sense leveled with a dose of fiction. For instance a car is pretty much going to beat a person on foot, but if the zone is crowded with obstacles and the person is a freerunning champion who parkours over all those obstacles before the car can get around the second corner then that's how it goes. You can also simply compel the fact that they are in a car and the other person is on foot. What makes the game more interesting?
Hmmm... what if one of the PCs is on foot, another is on a bike/ car. and they might face a mixed group of adverseries as well. How many zones can a motorized PC move? 5 zones compared to the 1 of the man on foot is my general attempt to decide this. But from what I understand few battlefields in FATE are that large.
Or: How do you integrate both vehicles and people on foot in the same battle, in terms of speed, and possibly attacks. Is the vehicle treated as an aspect? as it's own character (used by another?) with stress, aspects and such?


4) Zones should be big enough for something interesting to happen in them, or big enough to add some challenge or obstacle to the scene, which is usually something interesting. What will the characters be doing in the zone? Even if it is just running across the battlefield and dodging artillery and machine gun fire, or just a fence to leap over there should always be something to do in a zone.
I'm trying to prepare interesting battlefields for my first session. It's a Fallout like post apocalyptic world, so guns are a big thing, and so is range. In most of my ideas planning this I come up with fairly big battlefields (compared to the examples in the book)- usually 6-10 zones. Is it ok?

I'm wondering about zone sizes from the "believable range" dilema (sorry, I couldn't think of a better name): In one battle the PCs face raiders on the open, in a battle with 6 zones, but each of them is like 15-20 m wide. the shooter can't shoot anything under 2 zones, so he can't shoot anything under 30-40m. But later on they found out some of the raiders got into a building, so they go and fight them there. Much more crowded, much more details in a small place, so the main hall of the buildings is divided to zones of about 3 m each. but by the rules the shooter can still shoot any range over 2 zones, so now he suddenly can shoot over 6 m, instead of the 30-40 m before?
My players may have a hard time digesting this.

and another question, if I may:
6) One of my players has a Great resource skill. He wonders if he can make all kinds of "before scene" advantages, like before a battle he could make "explosive ammunition", "targeting sights", "body armor" and so on... In that way he might stack quite a few advantages without it costing any action. Can this be done so easily?

Thank you all for helping me with this. I want to make this introductory game a fun and positive experience, and hopefully get my friends as interested in FATE as I am! :smallsmile:

Kol Korran
2013-05-15, 08:54 AM
More questions comprised of a few minor questions concerning social situations:
7) There is a situation that may come up in the first session I'm planning: In a town meeting the PCs propose an idea to deal with a problem, while other supporting NPCs may try and oppose them in various ways. the other "NPCs" in this are the council and the crowd (Each treated as a "single" PC, with their own ratings and aspects). Now, I wonder how to represent this. from the previous answer I suppose it depends on what sort of a debate this is:
- If they are trying to convince the council/ crowd, then I guess it's a contest? Do the speakers divide their shifts between the two NPCs?
- Or one side (I imagine the specific NPCs) might try to besmirch the other side's reputation and credibility. Is this considered trying to make an aspect? ("disgraced", "ruined reputation") or is it an actual conflict, with stress, consequences and so on?
- If it's a conflict, does one defend with will, or with one of the social skills? (rapport, deceive, contacts and such)
- Lets say that there are two supporting NPCs on this debate. One tries to persuade the crowd, and nothing more, while the other tries to destroy the other side's credibility. Does this falls under the "taking other actions in a conflict" (first you have to defend in order to be able to participate in the contest) or is it handled differently?

8) The interrogation scene: The PCs have caught a baddie, even a supporting NPC. And they try and interrogate it. I can see it as all types of actions:
- An overcome/ attack action to gt the info you want.
- A challenge (learn the target's demeanor by empathy, break his resistance by provoke/ rapport, learn what you need to know by investigate).
- It could be a contest- the prisoner can be threatened only so long before his resolve to not tell anything makes it.
- Or even a conflict- each side tries to undermine the other's self esteem in their success ("we'll kill you if you don't speak", "my friends will rescue me soon, and then you ALL die")
How do you handle it?

Kol Korran
2013-05-18, 12:29 AM
Hmmmm... no one quite answering those last few questions. I'lltry asking one more:
9) about team effort: The rules say this can be done in two ways: either by making a joint action, with each member who has at least a +1 skill adding +1 to the effort, or creating advantages.

I'm a bit confused about narrating the first option concerning some skills, and also not sure how to calculate shifts and such:
1) suppose I have a bunch of 4 marauders. They are each fair (+2) opposition, with fighting (+2), athletics (+1), stealth (+1). Now I can understand them fighting together, but using athletics to avoid shots... how does it work? and sneaking up together... won't more people INCREASE the chance of being found out?

2) they each also have 1 shift of damage they can take. does that mean that one marauder is taken out for every TWO shifts of damage? (1 he might absorb, the second to be taken out)

3) while on the subject- can NPCs gain extra shift boxes by having a higher physique/ will? Or do they always stay at their base for their class. Yes, I know I can modify things as I want, but I'm asking this from a "bare rules" point of view.

I hope someone answers these questions, I'm a bit confused by this game. :smallconfused: Loving it, but confused.. :smalltongue: