[Request] Could someone please produce a statblock for a 5th level fighter?

[Kiero]

By way of context to this request, I'm planning a game of ACKS (which is based on B/X D&D), but I'm getting resistance based on preconceived notions of D20/3.x even though they're erroneous.

The simplest way to demonstrate the difference, in my mind, is to put two statblocks of broadly equivalent characters side-by-side.

So here's the ACKS character in question:

Archelaus the Megaran – Fighter 5, Move 120’, AC 5, HD 5, hp 38, Att 7+, Saves: Ref 12+ Fort 11+ Will 12+, Init +1, Dmg: spear 1d6/1d8+4, shortsword 1d6+4, javelin 1d6+4, dagger 1d4+4.
Str +2 Int +1 Con +2. Proficiencies: Seasoned Campaigner (G)*, Combat Reflexes, Combat Trickery (Wrestling), Command, Endurance (G), Fighting Style: Weapon and Shield, Manual of Arms (G), Survival (G). Languages: Attic Greek (native), Koine Greek, Thracian.
Equipment: Scale thorax, thureos (medium shield), spear, shortsword, javelins, dagger. Enc 5 stone. Mule carrying other equipment.

*Adventuring is renamed - everyone gets this free which covers basic stuff like riding, setting up a camp and so on.

I should note he has random, but assigned stats (SagaSheet gave me 17,16,14,11,10,9 - in other words only three are worth noting because the others have a modifier of 0), and non-random hitpoints (max at 1st level, half HD at every level thereafter).

In this game everyone gets their native language and koine Greek for free, plus whatever additional ones they’d get from Int. I’m also giving more Proficiencies out, they alternate General and Class every level (which is why he has two more than a standard ACKS character).

So, would someone be kind enough to stat up that same character in 3.5?

[thethird]

Most fighters in 3.5 won't be comparable, since Archelaus has one hell of a move speed, and awesome saves.

Still a competent 5th level fighter might look like:

Marius the tall

Stats (using the randomized that Archelaus has STR 17 (+1 from 4th level), DEX 11 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 9 CHA 14

A level by level progression would be:

Thug Fighter
Dungeoncrusher thug fighter
Zentharim thug fighter
Resolute Thug fighter
Zentharim thug fighter

Due to the thug fighter substitution levels it has 4 skill points per level instead of 2, being human nets him one more.

Skill ranks go into intimidate, gather information (skilled city dweller ACF), tumble (skilled city dweller ACF), jump, the others can be expended in skill tricks (such as never outnumbered Complete Scoundrel) or other skills (a language basically costs 2 skill points).

It doesn't gain any fighter bonus feat, since all of them have been traded.
First level for thug (unearthed arcana, more skill points)
Second level for dungeoncrusher (dungeonscape extra damage when bullrushing against walls)
Fourth level for resolute (complete champion, better chances of making a will save)

It does gain benefits of zentharim fighter (champions of valor?)
Skill focus (intimidate)
Extended intimidation

It also gains physical prowess (dead levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a))
I personally will get applied force x2

It has 3 feats, 2 at level one (for being human) and 1 at level 3

Power attack & Jotunbrud at level 1
Improved bull rush at level 3

As an added benefit Marius can lead men in battle, since he can train them to join his charge properly, via the joint bull rush team work benefit.

[Kiero]

Look, I appreciate that you've engaged with the material, but the whole point is that they are, as far as is possible, the same character. Ignore the derived stats like movement rate, saves and stuff, and go for the closest that is possible with the fundamentals.

They being Human Fighter level 5, and attributes Str 17, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 10.

He's not a tumbler or thug, he's a heavy infantryman and combat leader/trainer. If the elements aren't the same, we're not even remotely comparing apples with apples.

[thethird]

You didn't say what the stats corresponded to, if you wanted those to be there it would have been nice to point them out.

It is indeed a combat leader / trainer. There aren't that many skills available to be a leading fighter, and gather information and intimidate are the two most important ones. It can even teach the troops a fighting maneuver, in the joined bull rush.

It is not a heavy armored infantry man, since heavy armor was not commonly used, still, it can have a mithral breast plate pretty well. In fact the character that you presented isn't using heavy armor under 3.5 rules.

What exactly do you want?

If it is such of a trouble, swap around the stats, disregard the thug substitution levels and add weapon focus the weapon of choice.

[Rhynn]

Most fighters in 3.5 won't be comparable, since Archelaus has one hell of a move speed, and awesome saves.

:smallbiggrin:

He really doesn't.

Those are the same saves every 5th-level fighter has (you need to roll that or over on d20), and the move speed is the same as for any human.

Anyway, my version... going with the later official 3.5 statblock, and SRD (including Divine and Psionic) only.

Archelaus the Megaran
Male human fighter 5
AL* Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages* Attic Greek, Koine Greek, Thracian

AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 shield)
hp 47 (5 HD)
Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +1

Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); 30 ft.
Melee longspear* +8 (1d8+4/x3) or short sword +8 (1d6+3/19–20) or javelin +8 (1d6+3) or dagger +8 (1d4+3/19–20)
Ranged javelin +5 (1d6+3, 30 ft.) or dagger +5 (1d4+3/19–20, 10 ft.)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with longspear)
Base Atk +5; Grp +8

Abilities* Str 17, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 9
Feats* Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Stand Still
Skills (ACP -6) Handle Animal 5 ranks [+4], Climb 8 ranks [+11], Intimidate 8 ranks [+7], Ride 7 ranks [+9], Survival 2 ranks [+2], Swim 8 ranks [+11]
Possessions scale mail, heavy wooden shield, longspear, short sword, 3 javelins, dagger (58 lbs.)

* Alignment (AL) not specified since it wasn't in the original. Languages work out because he gets his native instead of Common, and 2 bonus language for his Int. Switch spear for longspear because it's better and neither can be used with a shield. Used your ability scores, assigned the non-significants somewhat randomly. Took Combat Reflexes despite Dex because it has no Dex requirement and that gets him Hold the Line (and lets him AoO someone charging him in the first round even if flat-footed). Couldn't take Improved Grapple because of Dex. Skipped Endurance despite same name because it sucks.


Out of curiosity, what sort of preconceived notions are you fighting here?

[Kiero]

You didn't say what the stats corresponded to, if you wanted those to be there it would have been nice to point them out.

I thought it was pretty clear, in the second line showing the bonuses, where the various stats that mattered were assigned. Ie Str, Con and Int.


It is indeed a combat leader / trainer. There aren't that many skills available to be a leading fighter, and gather information and intimidate are the two most important ones. It can even teach the troops a fighting maneuver, in the joined bull rush.

It is not a heavy armored infantry man, since heavy armor was not commonly used, still, it can have a mithral breast plate pretty well. In fact the character that you presented isn't using heavy armor under 3.5 rules.

He's got heavier armour than a kottybos/leather spolas, along with a decent shield. That makes him heavy infantry in the period (when few were wearing mail, and not many bothered with bronze back-and-breast plates any more). I'm not talking about heavy armour under 3.5.


What exactly do you want?

If it is such of a trouble, swap around the stats, disregard the thug substitution levels and add weapon focus the weapon of choice.

I want what Rhynn just delivered, a 5th level fighter attempting to get as close as is possible to the character I did in the OP.

Being only passingly familiar with 3.5 and having no materials, I wasn't about to try and rework something myself. Which is why I put the thread up in the first place.


:smallbiggrin:

He really doesn't.

Those are the same saves every 5th-level fighter has (you need to roll that or over on d20), and the move speed is the same as for any human.

Anyway, my version... going with the later official 3.5 statblock, and SRD (including Divine and Psionic) only.

Archelaus the Megaran
Male human fighter 5
AL* Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages* Attic Greek, Koine Greek, Thracian

AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 shield)
hp 47 (5 HD)
Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +1

Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); 30 ft.
Melee longspear* +8 (1d8+4/x3) or short sword +8 (1d6+3/19–20) or javelin +8 (1d6+3) or dagger +8 (1d4+3/19–20)
Ranged javelin +5 (1d6+3, 30 ft.) or dagger +5 (1d4+3/19–20, 10 ft.)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with longspear)
Base Atk +5; Grp +8

Abilities* Str 17, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 9
Feats* Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Stand Still
Skills (ACP -6) Handle Animal 5 ranks [+4], Climb 8 ranks [+11], Intimidate 8 ranks [+7], Ride 7 ranks [+9], Survival 2 ranks [+2], Swim 8 ranks [+11]
Possessions scale mail, heavy wooden shield, longspear, short sword, 3 javelins, dagger (58 lbs.)

* Alignment (AL) not specified since it wasn't in the original. Languages work out because he gets his native instead of Common, and 2 bonus language for his Int. Switch spear for longspear because it's better and neither can be used with a shield. Used your ability scores, assigned the non-significants somewhat randomly. Took Combat Reflexes despite Dex because it has no Dex requirement and that gets him Hold the Line (and lets him AoO someone charging him in the first round even if flat-footed). Couldn't take Improved Grapple because of Dex. Skipped Endurance despite same name because it sucks.

Excellent, thanks for that.

Yes, no Alignment because I'm not using it in this game.

You've highlighted one of the bizarre contrivances of 3.x with regards to spears. The hoplite doru was 8-10 feet long and wielded with one hand (courtesy of a butt-spike acting as counterweight), in combination with a shield. Yet a standard hoplite configuration isn't rules-legal in 3.5, which is completely absurd.


Out of curiosity, what sort of preconceived notions are you fighting here?

That ACKS is D20, meaning just as complicated and bringing all the attendant issues with speed of combat at the table. Comparison of mine and your stat blocks is an apt and easy way of demonstrating that they're not the same beast.

[Rhynn]

That ACKS is D20, meaning just as complicated and bringing all the attendant issues with speed of combat at the table. Comparison of mine and your stat blocks is an apt and easy way of demonstrating that they're not the same beast.

Bwahahahahahaaaaaa

Yeah, I thought that might be it. :smallbiggrin: I hope that helps!

I can seriously not think of a game with simpler combat than BECMI. Or simpler character creation. Or simpler NPC statting (although in BECMI, specifically, figuring out the XP value is a bit unclear). I was just talking to a friend the other day about how easy it is to stat NPCs in AD&D (a game more complex than BECMI)... you pick race, class, level, and whether any stats are above-average and thus matter at all (if not, you don't need to record any stats), and then assign some gear.

ACKS obviously adds some depth (at least for PCs), but it's miles away from d20 games. Doing up that 3.5 fighter already felt like a chore (especially picking feats), and I've got experience literally since 3.0 came out and know the rules pretty dang well. Since going back to AD&D (no Player's Option, ever!), I couldn't bear to have to stat up 3.5 NPCs for adventures again.

[Kiero]

It seems to be working, I've already had one comment of "this is interesting". :smallbiggrin: