Timeline of the Happy Ending

[oppyu]

Panel 1: The Order dismisses the force cage and subdues (but doesn't kill) Redcloak, and have Xykon at their mercy. Roy's looking at the phylactery with somewhat sadistic glee, while Elan and Haley are cheerful. Nobody really seems to care about Belkar and Mr. Scruffy.

Panel 2: Malack and Durkon reunite with the party. Roy is again the most expressive with wide-eyed joy, while the rest of the party is cheerful and Belkar, who was lying about Durkon's death in this reality, lies dead and neglected despite the presence of two high-level clerics who could potentially resurrect him.

Panel 3: In a shout-out to LoTR, the Order takes Xykon's phylactery and throws it into a large volcano, much in the fashion that Frodo should have used one of Gandalf's eagle buddies. Haley and Elan are cheerful, Durkon is terrified of heights, V is neutral, Roy's still rocking the sadistic glee and Belkar is still dead.

Panel 4: In the first panel not centred on Roy, Elan has somehow reunited the Tarquin family and convinced Nale to shake hands with Elan without killing him. Nale's still annoyed, but Elan and Tarquin are both happy. It's not explicitly shown, but one assumes that Elan has found a way to get around the whole 'Nale and Tarquin are both extremely evil' thing.

Panel 5: This time we see Haley and her resistance, as the prominent figures in that alliance (minus Team Peregrine, as Haley never met them) plus the Order storm Azure City and presumably take the city back from the goblins. Characterisation is still consistent from how Haley would remember them (Eyepatch and Niu are sadistic happy, Thanh and knot-top are angry, etc.), and Haley gets the win over one of the airborne harlots who have been tormenting her through this campaign.

Panel 6: Roy's crippling need for acknowledgement from the father figures in his life (Eugene, Horace, Durkon, Xykon) is met, with Eugene having ascended to heaven thanks to the bravery and competence of his son, and now being proud of the little fighter. Despite all of his mean words last time, Roy REALLY wants his daddy to like him. Poor guy.

Panel 7: The Order decides that Belkar is better off dead, but give the mean little psychopath a nice headstone that probably gives the impression that Belkar was somewhat heroic. In a nice but sad touch, Belkar and Mr. Scruffy are buried side by side. Elan is the only sad-faced one, Haley and Durkon seem somewhat unhappy, while Roy and Vaarsuvius walk off seemingly unconcerned.

Panel 8: After reclaiming Azure City, Haley takes the party to Greysky City and reclaims the Thieves Guild from Bozzok. Despite Hank's comments about there being no clean and orderly line of succession, they seem to have pretty easily transitioned into a softer and gentler Ian Starshine-led Thieves Guild, exploiting the fickle loyalties of Hank and the other rogues. Crystal is out of the picture and is presumably still dead. Surprisingly, Haley allowed Bozzok to pay tribute to Ian, instead of just killing him like Crystal.

Panel 9: Roy has become famous for his role in killing Xykon, and now has a sizeable erection in his honour (intentionally worded for juvenile penis joke). His sister is suitably jealous. Unsure of what the background is, perhaps Roy's hometown? EDIT: Cliffport would explain the airships, and the odd shapes in the background could be the buildings twisted by the swirly effect; they're the right colour.

Panel 10: The Order go about sealing the gates again, oddly starting with Girard's gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) (which in this illusion has not yet been located or breached.) EDIT: Redmountain Gate. Despite the ritual being thought to require an epic spellcaster (possibly mis-remembered on my part), Durkon and Vaarsuvius are able to manage.

Panel 11: Romantic resolution time; Haley and Elan are as hands-on as ever, while Roy and Celia also seem to be content.

Panel 12: At some point in the denouement, Haley the half-dragon was able to get a loooooooooot of gold. Nicely enough, she still gets to roll around mountains of gold with her hunk of bardic love.

Panel 13: Elan's managed to find a love interest for Banjo. Awwwwwww. Either he's hanging a little heart from his forehead with a hat of some kind, or (and I prefer this interpretation), one of his teammates has chosen to assist with his little project. Hopefully Roy.

Panel 14: Roy and Durkon end up where they first recruited the party; in a tavern, telling stories and sharing drinks.

Panel 15: Elan's riding a dinosaur. As the only place we've seen dinosaurs is in Tarquin's land, this seems like a further extension of the 'Elan reunites his family and converts them to slightly less evil' plot.

Panel 16: The Order meets Hinjo and Lien in what seems like, based on the mountainous background, Azure City. I'm not sure what the ground is; a boat? This could be the scene where the Order leads the displaced Azure residents back to the promised land.

Panel 17: In a nice moment, O-Chul and the MitD reunite. At least Roy, Durkon and Elan are present for this.

Panel 18: Elan is holding a lollipop of some kind... or a rattle. Are Haley and Elan going to have little chaotic babies? I'm going with that.

Panel 19: My plasma tv screen functioning as a second computer monitor can identify a red-cloaked figure with purple hair (V), a blue-armoured man with brown sin and no hair (Roy), and a blue-shirted man with fair hair (Elan). There's also a small circle that may or may not be Durkon's head. I'm going to say reunion, after five or so years of their happy post-adventure lives.

Panel 20: I got a streak of brown, and a streak of yellow. Roy and Elan?

Panel 21 and on: I got nothing.

Wow, I am so depressed right now, because the Giant just gave us an amazingly happy ending for all the characters we love, while also rubbing it in that it's not really happening.

Also, I think this is a joint illusion, although if the illusion belongs to any one character it would be (in my opinion) Roy using the information that others have given him in regards to the Resistance, the Thieves Guild, etc. The scenes with his filial resolution, plus the giant statue commissioned of him... yeah, I'm going with Roy.

[Ellye]

Just a nitpick, but I think the rift they are re-sealing is the Redmountain's Rift.

[Thrax]

I think that's all in Roy's head. A lot of it feels like the happy ending he would want for them - he wants Belkar to lie and Durkon to still be alive. He wants Elan to fulfill all his juvenile fantasies about a girlfriend, riding dinosaurs, eating lollipops and even a girlfriend for his stupid puppet.

Because if it's a joint fantasy, I wouldn't want to be in Belkar's head right now. I mean, I would never want to be in Belkar's head, but especially now.

[oppyu]

Just a nitpick, but I think the rift they are re-sealing is the Redmountain's Rift.
... oh yeah, I was thrown off by the fact that the original gate was sealed in a castle that has since been destroyed. Editing that now.

[KillianHawkeye]

Re: Panel 9

It's probably Cliffport. I'm not sure if that's where Roy is actually from or not.

[Ellye]

By the way, going on a tangent here...

Considering that the Redmountain Gate was pretty big already, how huge might its rift be now?
Azure City Gate was just a tiny sapphire, and the rift grew up to e a massive hole in the sky. Even if Redmountain's Rift ended up the same size, it's still a massive rift in the fabric of realty right at ground level. I wonder how much destruction its wrecking, and the type of tales being told about it right now.

[MReav]

Perhaps it's the purple tint, but when looking at Hinjo and Lien (the panel next to the dinosaur), I think of Therkla's imagine spot about Hinjoker.

[Grey Watcher]

Panel 1: The Order dismisses the force cage and subdues (but doesn't kill) Redcloak, and have Xykon at their mercy. Roy's looking at the phylactery with somewhat sadistic glee, while Elan and Haley are cheerful. Nobody really seems to care about Belkar and Mr. Scruffy.

Panel 2: Malack and Durkon reunite with the party. Roy is again the most expressive with wide-eyed joy, while the rest of the party is cheerful and Belkar, who was lying about Durkon's death in this reality, lies dead and neglected despite the presence of two high-level clerics who could potentially resurrect him.

It is a little weird that Roy is the only one who seems outright surprised at living!Durkon's reappearance. Maybe Haley and Elan saw him in between panels? Of course, the pacing of events also suggests a very dreamlike quality, so strict attention to detail may not be something the illusion is programmed to do.


Panel 3: In a shout-out to LoTR, the Order takes Xykon's phylactery and throws it into a large volcano, much in the fashion that Frodo should have used one of Gandalf's eagle buddies. Haley and Elan are cheerful, Durkon is terrified of heights, V is neutral, Roy's still rocking the sadistic glee and Belkar is still dead.

Pet peeve of mine: If the Fellowship had used Gwahir (the head eagle) and his buddies to attempt a fly-over of Mt. Doom, the fell beasts or some other flying or long-range-shooting servant of Sauron would surely have spotted them, taken them down, and returned the Ring to Sauron. Game over, bad guy wins.


Panel 4: In the first panel not centred on Roy, Elan has somehow reunited the Tarquin family and convinced Nale to shake hands with Elan without killing him. Nale's still annoyed, but Elan and Tarquin are both happy. It's not explicitly shown, but one assumes that Elan has found a way to get around the whole 'Nale and Tarquin are both extremely evil' thing.

Panel 5: This time we see Haley and her resistance, as the prominent figures in that alliance (minus Team Peregrine, as Haley never met them) plus the Order storm Azure City and presumably take the city back from the goblins. Characterisation is still consistent from how Haley would remember them (Eyepatch and Niu are sadistic happy, Thanh and knot-top are angry, etc.), and Haley gets the win over one of the airborne harlots who have been tormenting her through this campaign.

Panel 6: Roy's crippling need for acknowledgement from the father figures in his life (Eugene, Horace, Durkon, Xykon) is met, with Eugene having ascended to heaven thanks to the bravery and competence of his son, and now being proud of the little fighter. Despite all of his mean words last time, Roy REALLY wants his daddy to like him. Poor guy.

It's a little unclear, I think. Yeah, it's possible to interpret this panel as suggesting Roy isn't as fully over his issues with his dad as he might like to think, but I prefer an explanation that it means that Roy is just a big-hearted enough guy that, even as mad as he is with his father, and as much as he thinks Eugene may have screwed up, he still wants him to get into heaven for altruistic reasons rather than selfish ones. It's probably a mix of both....


Panel 7: The Order decides that Belkar is better off dead, but give the mean little psychopath a nice headstone that probably gives the impression that Belkar was somewhat heroic. In a nice but sad touch, Belkar and Mr. Scruffy are buried side by side. Elan is the only sad-faced one, Haley and Durkon seem somewhat unhappy, while Roy and Vaarsuvius walk off seemingly unconcerned.

At first I wasn't sure what to make of Roy's pose, but yes, I think you're right. It does suggest something like "When you're done, we'll be at the cemetery gates."


Panel 8: After reclaiming Azure City, Haley takes the party to Greysky City and reclaims the Thieves Guild from Bozzok. Despite Hank's comments about there being no clean and orderly line of succession, they seem to have pretty easily transitioned into a softer and gentler Ian Starshine-led Thieves Guild, exploiting the fickle loyalties of Hank and the other rogues. Crystal is out of the picture and is presumably still dead. Surprisingly, Haley allowed Bozzok to pay tribute to Ian, instead of just killing him like Crystal.

Wasn't it established somewhere that Ian was head of the Thieves' Guild at some point? Granted, I doubt the transition would go quite this smoothly in reality, but I think a former leader has some pull, and getting Bozzok to endorse him (however grudgingly) will at least turn a few more thieves to Ian's side.


Panel 9: Roy has become famous for his role in killing Xykon, and now has a sizeable erection in his honour (intentionally worded for juvenile penis joke). His sister is suitably jealous. Unsure of what the background is, perhaps Roy's hometown?

The airships suggest it's Cliffport, where Julia is presumably still in school.


Panel 10: The Order go about sealing the gates again, oddly starting with Girard's gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) (which in this illusion has not yet been located or breached.) EDIT: Redmountain Gate. Despite the ritual being thought to require an epic spellcaster (possibly mis-remembered on my part), Durkon and Vaarsuvius are able to manage.

As has been pointed out, it looks like it's meant to be Dorukan's Gate.

Nevermind, you caught that already. :smalltongue:


Panel 11: Romantic resolution time; Haley and Elan are as hands-on as ever, while Roy and Celia also seem to be content.

Panel 12: At some point in the denouement, Haley the half-dragon was able to get a loooooooooot of gold. Nicely enough, she still gets to roll around mountains of gold with her hunk of bardic love.

Panel 13: Elan's managed to find a love interest for Banjo. Awwwwwww. Either he's hanging a little heart from his forehead with a hat of some kind, or (and I prefer this interpretation), one of his teammates has chosen to assist with his little project. Hopefully Roy.

I, for one, hope Banjo's Girlfriend becomes a real thing. :smallbiggrin:


Panel 14: Roy and Durkon end up where they first recruited the party; in a tavern, telling stories and sharing drinks.

Panel 15: Elan's riding a dinosaur. As the only place we've seen dinosaurs is in Tarquin's land, this seems like a further extension of the 'Elan reunites his family and converts them to slightly less evil' plot.

Panel 16: The Order meets Hinjo and Lien in what seems like, based on the mountainous background, Azure City. I'm not sure what the ground is; a boat? This could be the scene where the Order leads the displaced Azure residents back to the promised land.

Panel 17: In a nice moment, O-Chul and the MitD reunite. At least Roy, Durkon and Elan are present for this.

Panel 18: Elan is holding a lollipop of some kind... or a rattle. Are Haley and Elan going to have little chaotic babies? I'm going with that.

Panel 19: My plasma tv screen functioning as a second computer monitor can identify a red-cloaked figure with purple hair (V), a blue-armoured man with brown sin and no hair (Roy), and a blue-shirted man with fair hair (Elan). There's also a small circle that may or may not be Durkon's head. I'm going to say reunion, after five or so years of their happy post-adventure lives.

Panel 20: I got a streak of brown, and a streak of yellow. Roy and Elan?

Panel 21 and on: I got nothing.

Wow, I am so depressed right now, because the Giant just gave us an amazingly happy ending for all the characters we love, while also rubbing it in that it's not really happening.

Also, I think this is a joint illusion, although if the illusion belongs to any one character it would be (in my opinion) Roy using the information that others have given him in regards to the Resistance, the Thieves Guild, etc. The scenes with his filial resolution, plus the giant statue commissioned of him... yeah, I'm going with Roy.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Elan is giving a flower to Haley and about to propose to her at sunset. But I like the lollipop, rattle stick, and flower for Therkla or Belkar's grave ideas.

[ChristianSt]

Panel 10: The Order go about sealing the gates again, oddly starting with Girard's gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) (which in this illusion has not yet been located or breached.) EDIT: Redmountain Gate. Despite the ritual being thought to require an epic spellcaster (possibly mis-remembered on my part), Durkon and Vaarsuvius are able to manage.

Redloack has said (I think in SoD) that you need to be epic for the gate-building, but perhaps he doesn't have it right. I don't know whether the Order think you need to be Epic to do so, but if they do, then for me that should indicate that the Order has managed to get to Epic levels.

[ThePhantasm]

Are all the panels in Roy's head? Some seem to be in Elan and Haley's heads.

But that can't be right, because no panel appears to be in Belkar's head...

[Ellye]

Are all the panels in Roy's head? Some seem to be in Elan and Haley's heads.

But that can't be right, because no panel appears to be in Belkar's head...This is longly debated on the main comic thread, and there's no consensus.
I'm inclined to believe that this is a shared illusion, and that each of the affected party members contribute a bit of their desires to the illusion. But yes, this would imply that Belkar, right now, desires to be dead in place of Durkon.

Others believe that different panels are from different characters POV.

And others believe that the entire illusion is from Roy's POV, and that he cares enough about Elan and Haley to want a happy ending for them too (and to know what Elan wants for his happy ending).

And some believe that the entire illusion is from Elan's POV - the big issue here being that it's hard to shallow that Elan would want Belkar dead instead of turned good, and Elan doesn't know what Roy's dad looks like.

The entire thing being Haley's POV could be a possibility, too, I think. She knows Roy's and Elan's desire for happy endings, wanting Belkar death is plausible for her, and she knows what Roy's dad looks like.

[Sir_Leorik]

Pet peeve of mine: If the Fellowship had used Gwahir (the head eagle) and his buddies to attempt a fly-over of Mt. Doom, the fell beasts or some other flying or long-range-shooting servant of Sauron would surely have spotted them, taken them down, and returned the Ring to Sauron. Game over, bad guy wins.


Everyone seems to remember Sean Bean's Boromir insisting that "One does not just walk into Mordor", yet these seem people can't seem to understand that flying a giant eagle would be way more obvious to Sauron. By contrast, Helldeathdoomfire Volcano is poorly guarded compared to Mount Doom. :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

Put me in favor of the "shared phantasm" hypothesis. The runes are drawing ideas from all four of their minds to show their perfect happy ending. Belkar's happy ending in this scenario is being buried next to Mr. Scruffy. How is he perceiving all this if he's dead? Apparently this phantasm is so strong he can't question it, even if he shouldn't be able to witness these events.

[ThePhantasm]

Put me in favor of the "shared phantasm" hypothesis.

Whoa, whoa, what now? :smalleek:

[Ellye]

:haley: : Tee-hee

But yeah, shared phantasm is the most likely. Whether people not present in particular panels are seeing them too or not is up to debate, but probably ultimately irrelevant. Except maybe for how it affects Belkar.

[JSSheridan]

Pet peeve of mine: If the Fellowship had used Gwahir (the head eagle) and his buddies to attempt a fly-over of Mt. Doom, the fell beasts or some other flying or long-range-shooting servant of Sauron would surely have spotted them, taken them down, and returned the Ring to Sauron. Game over, bad guy wins.

What about a catapult? :smalltongue:

[Sir_Leorik]

Put me in favor of the "shared phantasm" hypothesis.


Whoa, whoa, what now? :smalleek:

Ooh, looks like you didn't get the memo from Amanda Waller, did you? She's farming out her Task Force X agents to S.H.I.E.L.D. (via A.R.M.O.R.'s trans-dimensional interface) so that she can keep paying Lex Luthor for the black market weight reduction tablets she's been using since the reboot. I should warn you, S.H.I.E.L.D. Director Hill's a bit unhappy with costumed assassins after Deadpool caused that noodle incident in the Helicarrier's mess hall. :smallbiggrin:

[Sir_Leorik]

What about a catapult? :smalltongue:

Yeah, who're ya gonna get to push it close to the walls of the Black Gate, farmboy? Ya might as well fly an INCOM T-65 "Skyhopper" through Beggar's Canyon while trying to shoot Womp Rats with a blaster carbine!

[Spleen_]

If this is a joint illusion, I hope Belkar doesn't take it to heart...

[Sir_Leorik]

If this is a joint illusion, I hope Belkar doesn't take it to heart...

Yeah, with his CON score in the low single digits, the little guy could have a heart attack if he stresses over everyone else getting a better happy ending than he did. :smallcool:

[F.Harr]

Panel 1: The Order dismisses. . .

Yup. I agree with it all. Poor Mr. Scruffy.

[F.Harr]

Oops. Two things. No, three. First, if the Eagles had got their talons on the ring, then they have turned to evil, too, even if no one in the novel said it. It HAD to be a hobbit. Second, the heart could be hanging from a frame. Finally, dratit, I forgot number three. Obviously, it was of great importance.

[ThePhantasm]

The "why didn't they just ride the Eagles into Mordor" critique is one of those things that appears to be a plot hole but isn't. Seven (well, six really) reasons why below.

1) The reason the Eagles couldn't take the Dwarves to the Lonely Mountain in the Hobbit was because a) they aren't beasts of burden but sentient creatures and so have no obligation to carry them such a long way and b) as they explicitly state, the men of Dale would shoot them down with their arrows because they raid their sheep.

2) Presumably Orcs in Mordor have arrows.

3) The Winged Nazgul would be a serious threat to the Eagles. I know the movie shows the Eagles killing the Winged Beasts, but the books do not. Frankly, encountering the Nazgul head on with the ring at all is a major risk.

4) The Eagles cannot fly forever and must rest. This is why when an Eagle saves Gandalf from Isengard he drops him off in nearby Rohan.

5) The Eagles are difficult to contact, and don't seem to offer their services to anyone other than Gandalf and Radagast.

6) The mission of the fellowship was to sneak the ring into Mordor in secrecy, unnoticed. Eagles are very noticeable.

7) Sauron likely has other winged servants besides the beasts that the Nazgul ride. We know the orcs had Giant Bats in their service at the Battle of Five Armies.

[Sir_Leorik]

The "why didn't they just ride the Eagles into Mordor" critique is one of those things that appears to be a plot hole but isn't. Seven (well, six really) reasons why below.

5) The Eagles are difficult to contact, and don't seem to offer their services to anyone other than Gandalf and Radagast.


And the only reason Gandalf and Radagast can do ask for their services is that "wizards" in LotR are actually Maiar, servants of Eru. Essentially Gandald is a lesser angel taking human form to act in Middle Earth. He's not Merlin, he's not Elminster, he's not Raistlin, he's Eru's messenger trying to make sure servants of Morgoroth, such as corrupted Maiar like Saruman or the Balrog, are not harming the people of Middle Earth. That's why the giant eagles agree to help Gandalf in small ways. Flying over Morder to Mount Doom is not helping in a "small way".

[Bird]

Hard for me to imagine that this is all Roy's illusion -- no matter how long his fantasy lasted, I couldn't see it getting around to a girlfriend for Banjo.

Among the options that Ellye listed, I've really no idea. The lack of a happy ending for Belkar does seem like an issue.

[Sir_Leorik]

Among the options that Ellye listed, I've really no idea. The lack of a happy ending for Belkar does seem like an issue.

Belkar and Mr. Scruffy went down fighting, he got a hero's funeral and Mr. Scruffy got a grave next to his. That's a lot better than he might have hoped for. Okay, his ideal fantasy probably involves Jenny and a few hookers, but the phantasm tries to keep those trapped inside from realizing its all an illusion. So if Belkar teleported to Greysky City and joined Jenny and Thieves' Guild's volley ball team, he might notice something was wrong. But if he gets killed fighting a mortal enemy in the pyramid he's exploring, then gets a nice funeral where Elan says a few words, then it'll be easier for Belkar's mind to believe. Yes, Belkar might snap out of the reverie when he realizes he's not in Tarterus, or if he gets really bored, or Mr. Scruffy digs his claws into Belkar, but Mr. Scruffy had trouble breaking Belkar out of Malack's Dominating Gaze a few comics back. Face it, Belkar's as stuck in the Lotus-Easter effect as the other three...

[ThePhantasm]

And the only reason Gandalf and Radagast can do ask for their services is that "wizards" in LotR are actually Maiar, servants of Eru. Essentially Gandald is a lesser angel taking human form to act in Middle Earth. He's not Merlin, he's not Elminster, he's not Raistlin, he's Eru's messenger trying to make sure servants of Morgoroth, such as corrupted Maiar like Saruman or the Balrog, are not harming the people of Middle Earth. That's why the giant eagles agree to help Gandalf in small ways. Flying over Morder to Mount Doom is not helping in a "small way".

Yes, that's mostly correct, although Galadriel also called upon Gwaihir for aid. Gandalf and Radagast are on friendly terms with creatures of "nature" that Saruman and his ilk seem to ignore or mock. It helps too that at least the original Eagles were special emissaries of Manwe, inhabited by spirits akin to the Maiar.

[Morty]

I think that the theory according to which Belkar believes he should have died has some merit. This way the illusion we're seeing could be a shared one while still making sense - because Belkar would accept dying in Durkon's place.

I used to think that the illusion is all in Roy's head, but now I'm not quite sure. If only because Roy has no idea who Tsukiko is.

Of course, a third possibility is that different panels come from the phantasms experienced by the different members of the order. But then, that would mean we aren't seeing any of Belkar's visions.

[KillingAScarab]

Panel 14: Roy and Durkon end up where they first recruited the party; in a tavern, telling stories and sharing drinks.Actually, I wonder if this isn't meant to be Durkon and Roy in Dwarven Lands. It depends upon how well Roy knows Durkon, but aside from the giant golden tankard he got from the bandits of Wooden Forest, Durkon hasn't had a decent mug of lager in 5 years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html). Durkon finally getting good beer = yay! It also would mean the Oracle was wrong about Durkon dying before returning home, which must be a plus for Roy.

[Sir_Leorik]

I used to think that the illusion is all in Roy's head, but now I'm not quite sure. If only because Roy has no idea who Tsukiko is.


Roy has seen Tsukiko before, when he, Eugene and Roy's Archon were scrying on Haley in Azure City. But he never met many of the members of the Resistance nor did he ever see Jirix. That has to be one of Haley's fondest desires: returning to Azure City and finishing what she started.

[Morty]

Hm, true. I forgot. Still, like you said, to him Tsukiko is just a vaguely remembered lackey of Xykon's, while Haley really hated her.

[Sir_Leorik]

Hm, true. I forgot. Still, like you said, to him Tsukiko is just a vaguely remembered lackey of Xykon's, while Haley really hated her.

Exactly. Two of the panels involve Haley getting revenge and one involves Haley pulling a Scrooge McDuck in her money bin. Neither of those concepts are on Roy's "bucket list", while making amends with Eugene, drinking Dwarven beer with Durkon and rubbing his heroism in Julia's face are. There are some panels showing us Roy's fantasies and others showing us Haley's or Elan's.

[AlexanderRM]

Thanks for making this, I wasn't clear on some of the really small ones. My guess is that Panel 21 and on are just blank, obviously the Giant would have stopped making panels at some point.

My guess was that this is sort of a vague composite of the separate illusions that each character is in, but it could also be that they're in a joint illusion. The previous comic was definitely Roy's fantasy, though... and it's strange that we don't see Belkar's fantasy here, so maybe this is Roy's fantasy, but with an unusual emphasis on Elan's and Haley's parts.

I'm going to suggest that perhaps each party member is having a separate fantasy, but what the Giant is showing us is partly a representation of a happy ending for the comic as a whole (well, except for the Goblins), and so he's just compiling Roy, Elan, and Haley's fantasy but leaving out Belkars parts (but leaving out Durkon's and V's parts, because they're not actually in the fantasy).

Maybe Belkar's fantasy will be shown in the next strip? That would be fun. :)

[Bird]

Belkar and Mr. Scruffy went down fighting, he got a hero's funeral and Mr. Scruffy got a grave next to his. That's a lot better than he might have hoped for. Okay, his ideal fantasy probably involves Jenny and a few hookers, but the phantasm tries to keep those trapped inside from realizing its all an illusion. So if Belkar teleported to Greysky City and joined Jenny and Thieves' Guild's volley ball team, he might notice something was wrong. But if he gets killed fighting a mortal enemy in the pyramid he's exploring, then gets a nice funeral where Elan says a few words, then it'll be easier for Belkar's mind to believe. Yes, Belkar might snap out of the reverie when he realizes he's not in Tarterus, or if he gets really bored, or Mr. Scruffy digs his claws into Belkar, but Mr. Scruffy had trouble breaking Belkar out of Malack's Dominating Gaze a few comics back. Face it, Belkar's as stuck in the Lotus-Easter effect as the other three...

Mr. Scruffy died ignominiously to an offhand attack from Xykon. He didn't even get to hurt anything before he croaked. There's no way that Belkar would be happy with that ending for his best friend, statue or no.

I'm leaning now in the direction that Belkar is having a separate fantasy. Maybe when they all come to (however that happens), we'll hear Belkar asking where all the hookers have gone or some such.

[Dumbestupidiot]

If this was in Elan's head I would expect there to be far more drama in some of these panels.... and especially with his father, he knows that his father's vision requires him to take him down and not just shake his brother's hand happily. Such a vision, though pleasing, would feel, to him, like someone petting the cat backwards, it would rub him completely wrong.

[KillingAScarab]

If this was in Elan's head I would expect there to be far more drama in some of these panels.... and especially with his father, he knows that his father's vision requires him to take him down and not just shake his brother's hand happily. Such a vision, though pleasing, would feel, to him, like someone petting the cat backwards, it would rub him completely wrong.I would find it hilarious if Elan was the only one who got a second will save and succeeded on it due to being genre savvy. As it is, with so many "events" having already occurred in their heads, I'm expecting the flaws will only become apparent after someone or something snaps them out of it in some other way.

[SteveMB]

My guess was that this is sort of a vague composite of the separate illusions that each character is in, but it could also be that they're in a joint illusion. The previous comic was definitely Roy's fantasy, though... and it's strange that we don't see Belkar's fantasy here, so maybe this is Roy's fantasy, but with an unusual emphasis on Elan's and Haley's parts.

One advantage of a joint illusion -- "everything is perfect for me and my friends" is even more compelling than "everything is perfect for me".


Maybe Belkar's fantasy will be shown in the next strip? That would be fun. :)

One slight problem: the comic is generally (in movie terms) PG with occasional PG-13 moments, and Belkar's idea of a perfect life (nonstop sex and violence) would strain those constraints to the breaking point. :smallbiggrin:

[137beth]

Also, I think this is a joint illusion, although if the illusion belongs to any one character it would be (in my opinion) Roy using the information that others have given him in regards to the Resistance, the Thieves Guild, etc. The scenes with his filial resolution, plus the giant statue commissioned of him... yeah, I'm going with Roy.
I was under the impression that each character had a separate illusion, and that different panels were part of different character's fantasies. Obviously, the dream wedding in 888 is purely Elan's, though.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I was under the impression that each character had a separate illusion...

Why?

6666

[Bulldog Psion]

Pet peeve of mine: If the Fellowship had used Gwahir (the head eagle) and his buddies to attempt a fly-over of Mt. Doom, the fell beasts or some other flying or long-range-shooting servant of Sauron would surely have spotted them, taken them down, and returned the Ring to Sauron. Game over, bad guy wins.

Yes, the Nine would have been on them faster than you can say "flying back to Mordor with the speed of the wrath of Sauron."

[The Zoat]

because Belkar would accept dying in Durkon's place.


EPIC FORESHADOWING to Belkar dying to redeem Durkon.

[Amphiox]

A couple of thoughts about Belkar being dead in a joint illusion.

1) What if the illusion doesn't give everyone their desired result, but gives results based on alignment. So good people get a happy ending, but evil people get a bad ending? If so, then Belkar's probably imagining himself being tortured in the evil after-life right now.

2) What if Belkar were suffering from survivor guilt at the moment, such that, for the moment, he actually wants to be dead in Durkon's place? If so, he might be the first one to break out of the enchantment, and thereby save the Order, since given what we know of him, it is unlikely he'll stay wanting to be dead for very long.

[Xenrei]

Huh. Nicely done. You pointed out many things I didn't notice with my simple laptop monitor. :smallwink: