A Bard without music

[Zombimode]

I finally got a new group together :)

We use an E6 setting and the group consist of: custom half-orc Factotum 3, not particularly optimized human Diviner Wizard 3 (bared schools: enchantment, necromancy), a dwarven Cloistered Cleric 3, a custom half-elf Rogue 1 / Bard 2, and one still undecided player.

Now, the Bard player informed me of his decision not to use the bardic music class features. He was actually fine with not getting anything in return, but it doesn't bode with me well, because I see bardic music as a pretty big part of the bard package. So far, he got an extra luck feat because he asked for it.
Still, I don't think just getting a bonus feat will make up for the loss. So I'm open for ideas :smallsmile:

Of course I told him, that bardic music don't have to be music or singing. I'm pretty lenient with stuff like that. But no, he didn't wanted that either.

His character idea is a collector of stories and historic knowledge of some sorts.

Suggestions are appreciated.

[RFLS]

I understand that you're playing strict 3.5, and this is not an attempt to convert you to Pathfinder. However, if you want ideas on what you can trade different abilities out for, the Pathfinder Bard has numerous archetypes that trade out its bardic music. Archaeologist in particular comes to mind (I think that's what it's called).

[Cog]

Mix and match to taste:

I was going to suggest cribbing the Archivist's Dark Knowledge class feature, but on second glance, it seems pretty useless. It might offer some inspiration, though.

Bumping him up to 8 or 10 +Int skill points as long as he keeps a certain number of Knowledge skills maxed out would be nice. Alternatively, you could swap his casting to Int to represent to better represent learning over innate magic.

Knowledge Devotion could be a bonus feat, and combos well with the skill trick named, appropriately enough, Collector of Stories.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Is this primarily flavor that he's opting out of music? Perhaps he could preform tumble or story tell to accomplish the same thing music would do. I inspire courage by boistering the group in a tale of how things could be much worse.

[RFLS]

Is this primarily flavor that he's opting out of music? Perhaps he could preform tumble or story tell to accomplish the same thing music would do. I inspire courage by boistering the group in a tale of how things could be much worse.

I think the OP said he wasn't interested in doing something like that at all.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think the OP said he wasn't interested in doing something like that at all.

Ah yes, I do see that now...My bad.

Then I don't see why he'd want to play a bard at all. What does a bard get that would make them want to be one and be so short changed?

[Zombimode]

I understand that you're playing strict 3.5, and this is not an attempt to convert you to Pathfinder. However, if you want ideas on what you can trade different abilities out for, the Pathfinder Bard has numerous archetypes that trade out its bardic music. Archaeologist in particular comes to mind (I think that's what it's called).

I looked into Archaeologist, and yeah, that seems pretty neat. Since he based his character a bit around the "to lucky to die" concept, getting an ability that provides a luck bonus will suit with him pretty well.

There is one small nitpick though: the Archeologists Luck ability uses the PF style of "per day" abilities, with a turns per day mechanic. 3.5 does not do this normally and I like consistency. Is there any metric I could use to convert it into a x times per day mechanic?


Ah yes, I do see that now...My bad.

Then I don't see why he'd want to play a bard at all. What does a bard get that would make them want to be one and be so short changed?

Yeah, its a good question actually. But he seemed pretty clear on his class choices and in those cases I don't question it. People pick classes for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes its because the like the abilities. Sometime its because they like the name of the class on their character sheet.
As long as the player is content with his character, I'm fine with any reason.

Maybe he likes the big skill list plus the casting ability?

[Joe the Rat]

Lessee... Perform (Oratory) is a valid selection for Bard music (and I am seriously looking at it for a storyteller-fluffed infodump bard... which sounds a bit like his concept).

But he's not going that route.

Mmm... Bardic Sage (UA) gives you more divination, a bardic knowledge bonus, and an excuse to pump intelligence, at the cost of bard music duration (not an issue) and your reflex save (yipe!), plus you have to take your alignment out of the middle column. Perhaps take the bonuses from this, drop what's left of bardic music and give him his good reflex save back?

Oh, and definitely steer him towards Collector of Stories.

[Coidzor]

The first thing that came to mind was the Fey Bard from UA that trades out most of the bardic music and bardic knowledge for an animal companion and some of the minor druid features.

Seems like he wants bardic knowledge though, so that's a no-go...

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Mix and match to taste:

I was going to suggest cribbing the Archivist's Dark Knowledge class feature, but on second glance, it seems pretty useless.

Come again?

The Dark Knowledge feature that can, as a move action, give attack, damage, AC or Save bonuses for the rest of combat?

The same one that gets a no-save no-SR no-Attack-Roll Stun? Also as a move action?

[Harrow]

Would bardic music feats be different enough from the standard 'Inspire Courage' for him? 'Cause things like Lyric Spell, Metamagic Spell, Ironskin Chant, and Doomspeak are all excellent outlets to sink bardic music uses into. If he really wants, he could re-fluff it into some kind of innate magic thing.

A little off-topic, but why does that Diviner have two banned schools?

[RFLS]

I looked into Archaeologist, and yeah, that seems pretty neat. Since he based his character a bit around the "to lucky to die" concept, getting an ability that provides a luck bonus will suit with him pretty well.

There is one small nitpick though: the Archeologists Luck ability uses the PF style of "per day" abilities, with a turns per day mechanic. 3.5 does not do this normally and I like consistency. Is there any metric I could use to convert it into a x times per day mechanic?

Change the wording concerning number of uses to the following:


An archaeologist may use his Luck ability a once per day starting at level one, and an additional time per day for every 4 levels of archaeologist he possesses. The luck ability, when used, lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier.