War Hulk Spinoffs (WIP, PEACH)

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I felt like building something silly... er, sillier than last time. That being said, I actually would like to make this work, so if you've got ideas, let's here 'em.

Obviously, these classes were inspired by the War Hulk - I doubt the concept (a class that gives stat boosts as its primary advantage) will really accomplish much, but... meh, it'll be a fun exercise.

It should be mentioned that, at the time of writing this introduction, I have no idea what class abilities these guys are gonna get.

Entry Requirements:
Level: Character Level 5th
Skills: At least 5 ranks in at least 8 Knowledge Skills
High Scholar
{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Ability Boost (Int+2) |
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Ability Boost (Int+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Ability Boost (Int+2) |
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Int+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Int+2) |
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Int+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Int+2) |
8 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 6 | Ability Boost (Int+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
9 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 6 | Ability Boost (Int+2) |
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Ability Boost (Int+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class[/table]
Hit Die: D4
Skill Points: 2 + Int
Class Skills: Knowledge (All), Concentration, Spellcraft, Craft, dunno what else.

...I may take away the Spellcasting Advancement entirely, if I can think of anything else to give him.

I realize that right now, this is a pretty poor entry - I'd like to see if people have suggestions that could make it work.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

This post reserved for Artful Dodger, the DEX-Based version of this, cause I figure I might as well go all the way.

Entry Requirements:
Level: Character Level 5th
Artful Dodger
{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special
1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
2 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 0 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
3 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 1 | Ability Boost (Dex+2) |
4 | 3 | 1 | 4 | 1 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
5 | 3 | 1 | 5 | 1 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
6 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 2 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
7 | 5 | 2 | 5 | 2 | Ability Boost (Dex+2) |
8 | 6/1 | 2 | 6 | 2 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
9 | 6/1 | 3 | 6 | 3 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)
10 | 7/2 | 3 | 7 | 3 | Ability Boost (Dex+2)[/table]
Hit Die: D8
Skill Points: 4+ Int
Class Skills: Um, anything Dex-based.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

This Post Reserved for the Mendicant Mind (Or something like that,) the WIS based version of what I'm coming to suspect was a really bad idea in the first place.

Entry Requirements:
Level: Character Level 5th
Mendicant Mind
{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) |
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) |
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) |
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) |
8 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 6 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
9 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 6 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) |
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Ability Boost (Wis+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class[/table]
Hit Die: D6
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Class Skills:

Even less sure if I want to give this one spell casting advancement than the others... we'll see if I have any better ideas as we go along.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

This post reserved for the Charming...um... Charmer. Yeah.
...somebody should really just stop me.

Entry Requirements:
Level: Character Level 5th
Charming Charmer
{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special | Spellcasting
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) |
2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) |
4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) |
6 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
7 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) |
8 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 6 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class
9 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 6 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) |
10 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 7 | Ability Boost (Cha+2) | +1 Level of Existing Spellcasting Class[/table]
Hit Die: D8
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Class Skills: Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Last one! This post reserved for the Giant Bag of Hit Points, the Con-based version of this whole misbegotten idea.

Entry Requirements:
Level: Character Level 5th
Giant Bag of Hit Points
{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special
1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
2 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
4 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
5 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
6 | 4 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
7 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
8 | 6/1 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
9 | 6/1 | 6 | 3 | 3 | Ability Boost (Con+2)
10 | 7/2 | 7 | 3 | 3 | Ability Boost (Con+2) [/table]
Hit Die: D12
Skill Points: ...bags don't have skills.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Alright, we have the basics laid out.

So, first question - are any of these broken in core concept (as in, if you stripped away everything but the stat boosts, it'd still be too powerful?)

Second question - which of these are simply too weak to be considered, even assuming they were piled on a class built to take advantage of them?

Third question - what fun things could we give each that would make them worthwhile, without making them far too powerful?

Fourth question - in keeping with the War Hulk tradition, I'd like them all to have some sort of difficult, unusual entry requirements (in the way War Hulk has large size.) Any suggestions?

[The Mentalist]

Mmmm tasty....


Alright, we have the basics laid out.

So, first question - are any of these broken in core concept (as in, if you stripped away everything but the stat boosts, it'd still be too powerful?)

Not really. I mean the most potentially broken one is the Con based one on a Barbarian, they're not giving up much as the Barbarian class isn't all that long anyway (though Mighty Rage is nice) and that's not really bad, a 10 round bonus to rage and 200hp for 10 levels, yeah no problem.

Second question - which of these are simply too weak to be considered, even assuming they were piled on a class built to take advantage of them?

No, there's always going to be a class or PrC that can take advantage of the bonus stat points.

Third question - what fun things could we give each that would make them worthwhile, without making them far too powerful?


Dex could get Evasion, extra attacks (as Haste)
Con could get Fast Heal or Regen, maybe some Nat AC
Int or Wis could get some free Divinations (I like Hypercognition for such purposes)
Cha could get a charm/suggestion effect, possibly Mass on low HD creatures

I'll think on some more.


Fourth question - in keeping with the War Hulk tradition, I'd like them all to have some sort of difficult, unusual entry requirements (in the way War Hulk has large size.) Any suggestions?

I'm not sure yet, I can think of a lot of fluffish requirements but in terms of hard mechanics the only one that comes to mind is for the Con monster he has to have Regen or Fast Healing

[Eurus]

Let's see, what does each stat generally cover? Most of them aren't quite as... straightforward as strength.

Dexterity. What doesn't it do? Archery, dodging, and movement seem like the big themes. I'd focus on the latter two, myself.

Intelligence is pretty self-explanatory. The big one here is knowledge skills.

Wisdom is a touch more complex. It's linked to divine spells, governs Will saves, and several skills, including Heal, Survival, Sense Motive, Spot, and Listen. Seems to lend itself to a druidic/monastic/ranger slant of some sort.

Charisma isn't too tough either. Social skills like crazy, and probably a focus on physical appearance -- charisma isn't always physical, yes, but precedent has shown that it can be.

If we're playing up the war hulk parallels, they need a penalizing abilities like No Time to Think, which'll probably end up painting out its intended role pretty clearly. My thoughts on some options:

Intelligence This one I'd say could get a direct clone of the War Hulk ability. Cannot use Strength, Dex or Con-based skills. Because physical labor is for dumb people.

Wisdom If you really wanted to be mean, you could slap them with a vow of nonviolence, heh. If that's a bit too much... heh, what about silence? As part of the training to quiet your mind and enhance your senses, you never speak.

Charisma Hmm. What does the pretty one avoid? Combat? :smallamused: Honestly, I could totally see "you never fight yourself, you have people to do that for you" as a viable option, but it might be a little harsh. On the other hand, if they get abilities to charm and manipulate...

Constitution I feel like this one should be about standing there and taking punishment. Speed reduction? Elimination of dex/mobility skills? Directly penalizing armor class ("I don't need to dodge, I just facetank")? Not all at once, obviously. Hah, what about "always fails a reflex save against an effect that would save for half damage"?

Dexterity Hmm. The War Hulk doesn't think, the tank doesn't dodge, so what does the dodger ignore... probably either durability or strength. Or perhaps he has to just never wear armor?

As for the entry requirements, hmm... I assume you want it to be strictly mechanical, not flavor-based. Some more thoughts:

Intelligence: Er... I'm a bit clueless on this one. "Must have a racial bonus to intelligence"? Ooh, or "must be Old or Venerable age category". :smallbiggrin:

Wisdom: Would just saying "must have darkvision or low-light vision" be too easy?

Charisma: Kind of clueless here too. Tempted to say "must have a cohort or permanent servant of at least half your level", but that might make it nonviable in a lot of campaigns that don't allow Leadership?

Constitution: The fast healing/regen thing works, but man, that's really hard to get. What about damage reduction? Must have some sort of permanent non-magical damage reduction.

Dexterity: I'm thinking land speed of at least 40 feet works for a requirement here.


I'll keep thinking on actual abilities.