(PF low level) Control Sorc choices

[Rainshine]

Hullo!
I'm looking for some help picking spells known for my sorcerer. Don't need it to be overly cheesy. We're low level right now, two almost three. Known party consists of rogue, two pallies, ranger, gunslinger, summoner, and a fighter (the actual group fluctuates still based on attendance, those are who I can remember). We lost our blaster wizard to a reroll, so... yeah. DM is pretty easy on us, as most of the players don't have that much d20 experience. Mostly one encounter per day, mostly not too deadly yet -- well, there was the shade, but it ran away. All treasure is straight-up gold, no items handed out or found.
So far I've got Open/Close, Light, Read Magic, Acid Splash, and Detect Magic, then Color Spray and Grease. I'm a slightly modified Arcane Gnome sorc (got to take Abyssal's L3 spell because Arcane's is useless in this game), who does a lot of control and facetimetalking as royalty. Oh, most of our battlefields have been pretty big, so I spend a while trying to get within range :(
I'm looking at Magic Weapon or Silent Image for my next L1. Probably pick up either Enlarged or Focused Spell for my next Feat to take advantage of my Arcane bloodline stuff as soon as possible.
Ideally, I want to make it easy for my party to slice things without seeming like I'm doing much. At the same time, if our lack of dangerous magic is possibly fatal, I don't want to cripple us too bad.

I'm looking for suggestions, for feats, spells, items, the whole shebang, as to what to watch when advancing.
Thanks!

[Sylthia]

Hullo!
I'm looking for some help picking spells known for my sorcerer. Don't need it to be overly cheesy. We're low level right now, two almost three. Known party consists of rogue, two pallies, ranger, gunslinger, summoner, and a fighter (the actual group fluctuates still based on attendance, those are who I can remember). We lost our blaster wizard to a reroll, so... yeah. DM is pretty easy on us, as most of the players don't have that much d20 experience. Mostly one encounter per day, mostly not too deadly yet -- well, there was the shade, but it ran away. All treasure is straight-up gold, no items handed out or found.
So far I've got Open/Close, Light, Read Magic, Acid Splash, and Detect Magic, then Color Spray and Grease. I'm a slightly modified Arcane Gnome sorc (got to take Abyssal's L3 spell because Arcane's is useless in this game), who does a lot of control and facetimetalking as royalty. Oh, most of our battlefields have been pretty big, so I spend a while trying to get within range :(
I'm looking at Magic Weapon or Silent Image for my next L1. Probably pick up either Enlarged or Focused Spell for my next Feat to take advantage of my Arcane bloodline stuff as soon as possible.
Ideally, I want to make it easy for my party to slice things without seeming like I'm doing much. At the same time, if our lack of dangerous magic is possibly fatal, I don't want to cripple us too bad.

I'm looking for suggestions, for feats, spells, items, the whole shebang, as to what to watch when advancing.
Thanks!

I'd advise only picking one direct damage spell per level.

Grease is probably the best battlefield control spell for first level. Mage Armor (Find a wand if you can) is nice to have as you're pretty squishy at this level. If you want a direct damage spell, magic missile is pretty reliable. I wouldn't call identify useless, it probably seems that way since you haven't had any magic items drop. Enlarge person is a nice spell for your martial friends.

Once you hit second level spells, web is great for battlefield control. Pick up invisibility if you aren't doing direct damage, mirror image if you are. Scorching ray is probably the go-to direct damage spell for second level.

Once you hit third level, pick Haste, it is IMHO, the best low-level buff out there.

For feats, I'd recommend Combat Casting, casting defensively is much harder in PF, and you're eventually going to find yourself having to do it. Improved Initiative is a must. I'd advise against enlarge spell, it's not really worth it, unless you don't have anything else to go for. Definitely pick up Quicken spell once you can.

[Carth]

The rime spell feat automatically entangles anything damaged by the spell it's applied to, with no save. Apply it to the snowball (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/snowball) spell, and they'll be entangled if you hit (ranged touch, no SR), and then if they fail a fort save they'll be staggered on top of being entangled. Flurry of snowballs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/flurry-of-snowballs) is also a good rime spell vehicle.

[avr]

Single target direct damage is a waste of time with all the goons in your group. Let them do it. You want either more battlefield control, save or lose spells or area damage.

Silent image is cover to let you get closer without being shot as well as battlefield control, so that fits. Magic weapon is a poor but occasionally necessary buff until the others get magic weapons; it'd be better to buy a few scrolls if you can.

When 2nd level spells arrive, web or create pit are the natural control spells. Stone call is worse control but covers a spectacular area. None of them are exactly subtle though. Relatively subtle 2nd level spells are single-target save or lose's.

Some magic items you may want to aim for are a quick runners shirt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/shirt-quick-runners) (if you're having movement problems), pages of spell knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/page-of-spell-knowledge) or a ring of spell knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-spell-knowledge). Something to ride - magical or not - would help with movement too. Note the concentration checks to cast while on a moving mount however.

Create Wondrous Item is a feat you wouldn't regret taking IMO. Pages of spell knowledge become more practical if you can choose exactly what spell they contain by cooperating in their creation with another spellcaster.

[Sylthia]

Crafting feats are nice, but they can be dependent on whether you get enough time to craft. Sometimes, DMs keep things happening with no down-time available.

[Keneth]

We lost our blaster wizard to a reroll, so... yeah.

There's no such thing as a blaster wizard, so you didn't lose much. :smallbiggrin:

Since you're royalty, I sincerely hope you took the Noble Scion feat for Charisma bonus to Initiative checks. Otherwise (or in addition) take Improved Initiative, because going first is awesome.

Skip Enlarge Spell and Focused Spell. Pick up Extend Spell if you're gonna buff, and Rime Spell as Carth suggested. If you're gonna replace the blaster, take one (or two at most) blasting spells per spell level, preferably focusing on cold spells (snowball, flurry of snowballs, dragon's breath, cone of cold, etc.) if you're gonna be using Rime Spell, so you can get both some damage and crowd control at the same time.

Also, blasting has to be done with metamagics if you want to be effective, so later on you should take Intensified Spell (intensified rime snowball, gives you a 10d6 no SR spell that dazes and entangles), Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, and preferably Spell Perfection. Note that you don't need all of these as feats, you should probably buy or craft some (lesser) metamagic rods to free up some feat slots.

Also, don't forget to replace that color spray at 4th or 6th level, and take something like mage armor, protection from evil (although your paladins probably have this one covered), or vanish.

If you'll find that you're focusing on one school of magic, or even one spell, you should probably take Spell Focus (chosen school) and Spell Specialization to increase your effectiveness.

Crafting feats are, of course, awesome if you can afford the time (and the feat investment). If you get an improved familiar, you can ask your DM if he'll let the familiar take Craft Wondrous Items (since most of them have CL 3rd), and he can craft stuff for you then.

As for the spells, charm person (and later charm monster) are decent spells for sorcerers since you can pull off making Charisma checks. Blood money is cool to save some gold on (communal) stoneskin and the like. Silent image is probably a good spell to have, but YMMV. Glitterdust and web are cool nondamaging 2nd level spells, and mirror image is almost obligatory. Fly, heatstroke, slow, and sleet storm are all good choices for 3rd level spells, assuming the summoner takes haste, and battering blast can is a really fun spell if you have a slot to spare.

That's a quick rundown for the first few levels off the top of my head.


Grease is probably the best battlefield control spell for first level.

You know, after all these years, I don't recall ever using grease to any great effect. It's amazing in theory, and everyone recommends taking it, but using it in practice, especially on large battlefields that Rainshine seems to be on, is next to impossible. I can imagine it'd be cool to use it in a dungeon with a single-access corridor, and a big, dumb ogre coming towards you, but it never ever happens, or there's just too many other spells to cast that are more appropriate at the time.


Once you hit third level, pick Haste, it is IMHO, the best low-level buff out there.

Haste is awesome, but they have a summoner who can get it at 4th level.

[Rainshine]

Thanks for the tips! I've been pretty high up on initiative (ignoring those fours I rolled) thanks to my +4, but with most of the fighting happening across 150 ft. battlefields, it's mostly just be first out to be passed. (I'm hoping he'll start drawing smaller. Soon. Maybe we'll go into tunnels this week...)
As mentioned, web and create pit kindof make our ranged hate me, though. Both essentially allow targets to hide. I'll have to argue out Quicken (which doesn't benefit from my Arcane L3 feature) versus some other MM feat that isn't nearly as useful. Maybe pick up Rime/Snowball. I kindof like the imagery of a gnome pelting enemies with snowballs from on far....
Was already planning on Imp. Familiar (Hai Mephit), but I'll run the Craft Wonderous past the DM this week. I'm guessing a no, but worth a shot.

Oh, and I've gotten decent use out of Grease. Not so much out of Color Spray, as by time I'm within 15 feet there's either too many of our people in the way, or not enough weak stuff to hit. Used Grease to hold off a band of charging skeletons though, as well as make the lizardmen break formation.

Again, thank you, and if anyone else sees this, feel free to chip in!

[TheTick]

Snowball! Man, I made a cold-themed Sorc and can really use some low level Cold descriptor spells. Glad I saw this.