Miniatures, why?

[Mastikator]

Miniatures, little painted figures of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?

[Yora]

Because money. For the people who make them.

[Mastikator]

I get that, buy why bother buying them? Is it peer pressure? What would happen to someone who doesn't do miniatures in a group that does?

[Rhynn]

D&D 3E, and far more so 4E, are designed to include miniatures. 4E is going to be very hard to play without some kind of representations on a grid, and miniatures look good and are fun to paint.

Historically, miniatures were used because RPG grew out of wargames (cf. Chainmail), which were played with miniatures (which, again, were presumably also fun to paint and collect). This stuck around. It was in part self-justifying; the old players had miniatures, so they wanted to find uses for them.

Most RPGs don't require miniatures, but a lot of the time players want them anyway. They're fun.

Edit: And really, what man doesn't turn into a little boy playing with toy soldiers when they get a hold of miniatures?

[some guy]

Some people like it to paint them. Some people like to collect them. Some people play wargames with them. It's a hobby. Simple as that. And some like it to paint them for people that don't like to paint them.
And I've never heard of a group who does miniatures. I always thought it was 1 or 2 people.

[EccentricCircle]

Peer pressure doesn't factor into it, if a group uses miniatures of any sort then they'll have more than enough to lend one to any player who doesn't. You don't have to use official miniatures either, we use Lego figures drawn from my extensive collection.

As to why. Its very useful to keep track of where different characters are. In any game, regardless of whether its built to use miniatures or not, you are going to be describing a sometimes quite complicated scene to others.
I know people who draw maps on pieces of scrap paper, or on a handy whiteboard. And i've been in games where people just narrate whats going on. These are the games I find hardest to play in as I struggle to keep track without some sort of visual reprosentation of things. I find using minatures is a good way to get around those sorts of problems, after all a player can see whats on the map, and can continue to see it, even if they phased out a little while the GM was describing the scene. Its helpful to keep everyone on the same page. I really struggle to keep up when playing with a GM who is into "Theatre of the Mind" kind of games, and rattles off a whole string of information. So I never run that sort of game myself, although its true that setting up a complex scene with miniatures can take tiem, which may take some people out of the action.

[mjlush]

Miniatures, little painted figures of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?

I think you underestimate the value of making combat positions.

Some people enjoy ptainting miniatures and they look cooler than dice for marking combat positions.

We're currently using LEGO minifigs. Apart from looking a bit goofy (which works for me I'm not running a dark edgy campaign) we get a lot more variation as all the components are swappable (no more "Oh its charging orc I wonder who he is today").

For us the cost is already payed (my son's LEGO habit has come in useful) but even starting from scratch its not too bad. $2-3 per minifig much less if you buy bulk

[neonchameleon]

Miniatures, little painted figures of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?

Firstly, D&D started life as a hacked tabletop wargame. The movements in older editions are even marked in inches. I've also never seen a group where everyone had minis. Normally a couple of people have a lot - and they lend ones to the people without.

But what minis do is that they add clarity. You don't have to ask how many goblins you can get in the blast radius of a fireball. You can simply see it. And especially in 4e you can then see and set up a level of teamwork without having to spend minutes discussing how you are setting each other up - or how you are setting the bad guys to end up head first in their own pit traps despite the fact they started seemingly a safe ten feet away. This reflexive level of using the scenery because it is there rather than because you asked lends a level of differentiation and immediacy that simply isn't present in Theatre of the Mind.

[Malak'ai]

I use them because some of the minis you can get these days just look flaming awesome :smallbiggrin:.

[DigoDragon]

But what minis do is that they add clarity. You don't have to ask how many goblins you can get in the blast radius of a fireball. You can simply see it.

^That is pretty much why I use minis. I find that combat flows much better when the players can see a map with figures moving through it. It prevents some miscommunication about the positions of characters, distances to specific objects, affected areas of spells, etc.

On a slightly tangental note, I don't always use store bought painted miniatures. Sometimes a simple 1" cardstock square with a printed face of the character works. I often do this on modern RPGs where my modest collection of orcs and kobolds would be out of place. :smallbiggrin:

[Raimun]

If you play combats in a grid, miniatures are a fun way to represent your characters and monsters.

They don't need to be exact modes. What matters is that everyone involved can see at one glance the current tactical situation of the fight:

"Okay, archer is the ranger, that big guy is the fighter because he's under Enlarge Person, dwarf is the dwarf, that mage guy is the wizard and that warrior is the cleric because he has also a two handed weapon. All the goblins represent the normal soldiers, the orc is their leader and the other mage is their wizard."

Basically, they save time, since you don't need to ask all the time questions such as:
"Are there any enemies near me?"
"Ok, what kind of enemies?"
"So, which one of the warriors is the closest? The leader?"
"No? And the evil mage is not among them? Or behind them?"
"Ok, so where's the mage? Can I see him?"
"There? Okay, I ignore the other enemies and charge at the mage!"
...
...
...
"Why didn't you tell me he's surrounded by summoned monsters?! Those AoOs left me at negatives!"

Like they say, one picture is worth a thousand words.

[valadil]

I enjoy painting them. I haven't gamed in almost two years, but I've kept up with the minis because they're fun to do. And as long as I have them I might as well use them in games.

If I'm playing a game with a grid I'd rather use a figure that looks like my character than a bottle cap, quarter, or d12. I wouldn't use a grid in every game, but if it's there I don't see why I wouldn't use minis.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I use them because some of the minis you can get these days just look flaming awesome :smallbiggrin:.
This, basically. To the point where, even though I don't really play RPGs that use a battlegrid any more, I want to find reasons/ways to use minis. I mean, they're little people you can move around and they've got cool poses and they're colorful and--

No, no, it's not an entirely rational justification. :smallbiggrin: But seriously. I'm not a fan of battlegrids, but I love minis. They're just fun.

[obryn]

Miniatures, little painted figures of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?
Are you asking, "Why miniatures at all," Or "Why miniatures instead of chips/tokens/beads/etc."?

-O

[SimonMoon6]

And even in games where tactical positioning is of no importance, I've found miniatures to be useful so that the players can more easily visualize what's going on in a combat encounter.

Sure, the DM can just say, "Okay, there are 12 goblins, 7 hobgoblins, 3 orcs, 2 ogres, and a hill giant," but for a player to keep all of that in mind without miniatures is somewhat difficult, especially when the DM then says, "Now, six of the goblins and four of the hobgoblins move over to the left, while 2 orcs and an ogre move over to the right. The remainder of the monsters charge down the middle." Without miniatures, trying to keep track of what's going on is pretty hard.

And even with just the PCs and their followers, it's nice to have visual representations so that you realize who you're with and how many people there are. "I had no idea there were a dozen torchbearers following the dwarven paladin!"

[Jay R]

IN 1971, Guidon Games published a game called Chainmail, written by Gary Gygax and Jeff Perren. It was a miniatures game of medieval combat.

Just for fun, they included a fantasy supplement, that allowed dragons, giants, orcs, hobbits, ents, etc. It also included individual wizards and heroes.

That supplement became far more popular than the rest of the game, and led Dave Arneson to develop role-playing, and then Gygax to write the rules to Dungeons and Dragon, which originally assumed miniatures for combat, and used the Chainmail rules for combat. (This is why high-level characters were expected to settle down, build a keep, and develop an army.)

Miniatures aren't a particular way to play role-playing games, at least originally. Role-playing games were a particular way to play with miniatures.

[Mordar]

I really enjoy using miniatures in my RPGs for a couple of primary reasons beyond the logistical elements several people have already mentioned.

I like the enhancement of atmosphere that comes with a group using accurate and nicely painted models. It helps me with the mood of the game and serves as props/triggers for my "RPG mindset". Though they are certainly not necessary and not everyone's cup of tea, they instill a sense of nostalgia as well as providing a visual cue that helps consolidate memory in some of us older gamers.

I also like that miniatures provide an opportunity for gaming activity away from the table, and a creative outlet related to a very social experience that you can do alone. Plus, it makes what is for me an enjoyable experience (painting) something that can be shared and (hopefully) appreciated by others.

In regards to the "money" point made above, I really don't think that plays too big a part in the equation - particularly outside of DnD/Pathfinder - as many of the RPG companies don't produce models and the best sources for models (Reaper, for instance) offer a ton of very affordable options.

- M

[TheThan]

Ok so I paint miniatures, I play miniature war games. I like miniatures.
I also play RPGs, I like RPGs. My preferred RPG happens to be set in the same setting as the miniature war game(s) I play. So for me and my group of friends, it’s HIGHLY convent for my group and I to use miniatures when we play RPGs. I am not required to use these miniatures for the RPG. But since we already have them, we might as well use them.

[Malak'ai]

I really enjoy using miniatures in my RPGs for a couple of primary reasons beyond the logistical elements several people have already mentioned.

I like the enhancement of atmosphere that comes with a group using accurate and nicely painted models. It helps me with the mood of the game and serves as props/triggers for my "RPG mindset". Though they are certainly not necessary and not everyone's cup of tea, they instill a sense of nostalgia as well as providing a visual cue that helps consolidate memory in some of us older gamers.

I also like that miniatures provide an opportunity for gaming activity away from the table, and a creative outlet related to a very social experience that you can do alone. Plus, it makes what is for me an enjoyable experience (painting) something that can be shared and (hopefully) appreciated by others.

In regards to the "money" point made above, I really don't think that plays too big a part in the equation - particularly outside of DnD/Pathfinder - as many of the RPG companies don't produce models and the best sources for models (Reaper, for instance) offer a ton of very affordable options.

- M

The worst are the singular Games Workshop minitures... I can't believe how expensive they are getting!

Reaper has a HUGE range of awesome looking mini's... You can find something to fit basically any character you can think up! (and they're quite affordable too :smallwink:).

[nedz]

It depends upon the game you are playing.

Examples:

D&D 3.5 etc. is a board game, at least for combat, and so you need pieces.

LARP: not so much.

I did start out playing 1E without figures and combats could be very confusing even leading to arguments about where people where, especially when fireballs started going off.

One of my long time friends started collecting figures long before he was even aware of the games they were made for. We soon fixed that, but there you go.

[Winter_Wolf]

I like minis for large or heavily tactical combat visualization. For me it takes something away to say, "my half dragon charges into those gnolls" and then look down at a table with a d12 surrounded by a bunch of d6 or whatever else happens to be enough of to represent the bogey.

Plus the toy soldier thing someone up above mentioned. It's an excuse to play with toys again and I for one like having an excuse. I'd play with LEGO for minis, if I had any. Hm, come to think of it they'd make pretty smashing goblin stand-ins. I can't wait for my kid to be big enough that I can steal borrow their LEGO to play with.

My "greatest accomplishment" with a mini was to take two perfectly functional minis and then proceed to drill holes in one and take the wings from another and BAM! winged half dragon. Because I couldn't find one that represented the character I made, so I did what needed doing. And it was freaking awesome. Sadly the game imploded so it became decor until I moved and gave it away to someone or other.

[Slipperychicken]

My groups pool their minis so everyone can select from them. It's not like you get lynched for not buying minis. If no-one can afford minis, you can at worst scribble onto torn bits of paper (tape or fold them over something flat which won't be blown away, like bottlecaps or pennies) and use those on your battlemat.

Worst comes to worst, you can simply play without the use of a grid at all, I've played... four campaigns that didn't have any visual representation of combat. The combat was okay, but not an experience I hope to repeat. All those campaigns happened to be terrible for other reasons, though.


Miniatures, little painted figures of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?

In 3.5 and PF: They help you know combat positions, relative distances, whether someone is flanked or not, who your AoE will hit, whether you can position your AoE not to hit allies, whether you have line-of-sight, whether you have cover, whether your enemies have cover, whether you'll provoke an opportunity attack for your movement, how big your range penalty is, whether you're passing through difficult terrain, and many more aspects of the "combat minigame" which make things a little more cerebral than "I run up and hit him".

If you make heavy use of terrain features in combat, they can be invaluable for determining their effects on the battle. Things like whether you're close enough to swing on that chandelier, or whether you jumped far enough to clear a chasm, or how long it'll take to escape a sniper's line of fire.

[Sajiri]

I like to paint them, even though I've never used them. I had friends in high school that liked to use them, but didnt like spending much money, and didn't want to paint them themselves. So they bought unpainted ones, gave them to me to paint for fun, then I'd give them back so they could use them for fun.

There's the point, people use them because they get fun out of them in some way.

[obryn]

D&D is an odd duck, when it comes to miniatures.

If you want your game to run fine without miniatures, you should probably write it from the ground up to do so, like WFRP3. If you're doing what Next does, putting everything in 5' distances, but still insisting minis are optional, you're IMO going about things the wrong way.

-O

[Mastikator]

Are you asking, "Why miniatures at all," Or "Why miniatures instead of chips/tokens/beads/etc."?

-O

Basically it's the second question.

[caden_varn]

Why do people like spending their time playing RPGs? There is no inherent point to playing RPGs, except we enjoy playing them.
Its the same for minis, people enjoy painting them. The fact you can use them in RPGs is just a bonus.

[Joe the Rat]

Because they look nice. They give you a little more visual immersion. It also gives your more artistic players a way to express their character (paint, modding and remodeling, detailed illustration on tokens/standups, or self-sculpted(!).

It also gives the players something else to play with - any time they're fiddling with their miniatures, they aren't playing Jenga with the dice.

Also, depending on the ruleset you use, they establish facing.

[Slipperychicken]

Basically it's the second question.

Because seeing little people on the board is more visually stimulating (than say, using chess or checkers pieces), which aids in conceptualizing the battle.

Most of the "minis" my most recent group used were cardboard cut-outs on little plastic stands. It works about as well, really. As long as you feel immersed, you're good.

[ericgrau]

To track creature positions in combat, which is important in D&D unless you fudge the rules a bit. You can use tokens, candy and so on, but it is often confusing about what is what.

There are people who like to paint them and make them look good too, but this seems to be the much less common reason among the people I've known. Maybe others like to more.

[Mr Beer]

I find it extremely difficult to hold close to exact topography plus multiple combatants in my head. I also run or play combat heavy games.

It would be excruciatingly difficult for me to do this without visual representation.

Minatures + grid also avoids all the arguments about where characters are are when area effects go off ("I SAID I was hanging back a bit!") or a player wants to intercept the fleeing guard ("I SAID I watching out for that!") or whatever.

Now, if you lean towards a more in-game socially interactive theme, combat is quick + simple and you have spatial skills which are superior to mine (not hard) then sure, you may well find minatures redundant.


There are people who like to paint them and make them look good too, but this seems to be the much less common reason among the people I've known. Maybe others like to more.

I have one in my group now. It would be hard for someone who uses minatures so extensively in their game to care less about painting them than me, but I find his enthusiasm endearing. Anything* that gets players excited about their character is good by me.

* for limited given value of "anything"

[SimonMoon6]

True Story:

We were adventuring in a volcano (or something similar). Naturally, we were fighting tons of fire-based monsters. At one point, we were being attacked by a bunch of fire-based monsters. I think some were azers (fire dwarf creatures). The important thing is that it was some creature with a fiery aura. Anyway, the DM naturally didn't have any azer miniatures, so he made do, using other miniatures (some were wearing red).

So, one of the players who hadn't really been paying much attention said, "Okay, I jump off the stairs and grapple that guy." He pointed to a miniature of a gnome or something with a red hat.

The DM allowed him to try and that mentioned how much damage he took from grappling an azer. And he was like, "Oh, that's an azer? Oops!"

[navar100]

I really enjoy using miniatures in my RPGs for a couple of primary reasons beyond the logistical elements several people have already mentioned.

I like the enhancement of atmosphere that comes with a group using accurate and nicely painted models. It helps me with the mood of the game and serves as props/triggers for my "RPG mindset". Though they are certainly not necessary and not everyone's cup of tea, they instill a sense of nostalgia as well as providing a visual cue that helps consolidate memory in some of us older gamers.

I also like that miniatures provide an opportunity for gaming activity away from the table, and a creative outlet related to a very social experience that you can do alone. Plus, it makes what is for me an enjoyable experience (painting) something that can be shared and (hopefully) appreciated by others.

In regards to the "money" point made above, I really don't think that plays too big a part in the equation - particularly outside of DnD/Pathfinder - as many of the RPG companies don't produce models and the best sources for models (Reaper, for instance) offer a ton of very affordable options.

- M

And it's not as if making money selling miniatures is such horrible thing to contemplate either.

[Deophaun]

Tabletop games, books containing stats of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from taking up space on a bookshelf, what are they for?

It's true. All your dice and books serve no more practical purpose than minis. OK, well, I guess that you can use the books to keep you warm at night, but that's a one-shot deal. But, they're not going to put food on your table, or change out your tire when you get a flat, and you can get along fine without them in life. Even if you desperately need to play a tabletop RPG, you don't need books or dice to do it. Some people just like books and dice, just like some people just like minis. There doesn't need to be a rhyme or reason why.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

True Story:

We were adventuring in a volcano (or something similar). Naturally, we were fighting tons of fire-based monsters. At one point, we were being attacked by a bunch of fire-based monsters. I think some were azers (fire dwarf creatures). The important thing is that it was some creature with a fiery aura. Anyway, the DM naturally didn't have any azer miniatures, so he made do, using other miniatures (some were wearing red).

So, one of the players who hadn't really been paying much attention said, "Okay, I jump off the stairs and grapple that guy." He pointed to a miniature of a gnome or something with a red hat.

The DM allowed him to try and that mentioned how much damage he took from grappling an azer. And he was like, "Oh, that's an azer? Oops!"
Hey, some gnomes train hard. Don't underestimate a good gnome.

[Tengu_temp]

I think you underestimate the value of making combat positions.

Unless you happen to be playing a game where combat positioning is much more abstract or not as important, like any modern RPG that's not DND.

[Slipperychicken]

Tabletop games, books containing stats of monsters and stuff. I've seen it mentioned several times on this board but I just don't get the point. Aside from taking up space on a bookshelf, what are they for?


It's similar to why people pay to read books, play games, watch movies, go to concerts, and listen to music when they can simply sit in the darkness and just imagine all that stuff for free.



It's true. All your dice and books serve no more practical purpose than minis. OK, well, I guess that you can use the books to keep you warm at night, but that's a one-shot deal. But, they're not going to put food on your table, or change out your tire when you get a flat, and you can get along fine without them in life. Even if you desperately need to play a tabletop RPG, you don't need books or dice to do it. Some people just like books and dice, just like some people just like minis. There doesn't need to be a rhyme or reason why.

You could make the same argument against any non-essential good or service.

Here's a relevant SMBC comic.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120716.gif

[Remmirath]

They are certainly not necessary. People can run games quite well without them, including combat. Some games work better for this than others.

Personally I like to use them for positioning in all situations, and not just in combat. I like to have a set drawn up for every place the characters encounter, and then use the figures to show what NPCs are there and where they are. It's a lot easier to me than trying to describe exactly where each NPC is, and if combat should start, everything is already set up for it.

I have played in games where figures are not used at all, and although it does work, I prefer using them. I find it always helps me to know where all the characters are, particularly in combat, which can become somewhat confusing and hard to rule on when you're not sure where everyone is (such as if a thief can backstab someone at this time, or whether or not an archer has a good shot at an enemy, or if the mage has a line of sight).

They're also quite helpful in a dungeon sort of setting, making it easy to tell when people are walking on a trap or when they're about to spring an ambush or such. I also think that the more characters there are in the party, the more useful it is to have figures, because then less time needs to be spent saying where the characters are going instead of roleplaying what they're doing.

I do like painting them also, because I like painting in general and it's nice when the figures are particularly accurate representations of the characters, but unfortunately due to lack of time we've far more figures than I've managed to paint.

[Rhynn]

And it's not as if making money selling miniatures is such horrible thing to contemplate either.

No, making money from RPGs or related products is eeeeviiil. You've clearly not paid attention to edition wars!


Unless you happen to be playing a game where combat positioning is much more abstract or not as important, like any modern RPG that's not DND.

Well, RuneQuest 6 (and MRQ1-2, and Mongoose's Legend) definitely benefits from minis. So does HârnMaster (unless 2003 isn't modern enough). And HackMaster, I should think, although I won't argue much if someone declares that's just D&D. Uh, L5R, probably. Shadowrun. We use 'em in Artesia, which tracks positions.

I think I own more "modern" RPGs that do track position than don't.

And even in more abstract games, they're useful for marching order, grouping, etc. The Riddle of Steel explicitly doesn't track exact positions in combat, and I could still easily think of many uses for minis to reflect relative positions etc. (Who's facing off against who, who's been ganged up on, who's on the wall, who's in the hall, who's on which side of a stream - stuff that is frankly easier to represent with minis than to write down and then repeat to everyone every time they ask.)

[Tengu_temp]

Most of the games you mention are retroclones, purposely made to emulate oldschool RPGs. Their previous editions, in some cases. Go figure.

Minis can have their uses in many RPGs. But being useful is not the same as being almost necessary, which is the case with DND. I personally don't like them, they represent a facet of RPGs I don't like - treating the game as a tactical wargame rather than a roleplaying one. And all the flavour of using miniatures disappears anyway when there's no good mini to represent your character or enemies you put on the table, which is extremely common if you don't play in a generic fantasy setting.

[Rhynn]

Most of the games you mention are retroclones, purposely made to emulate oldschool RPGs. Their previous editions, in some cases. Go figure.

Er, what? If Mongoose's RuneQuest is a retroclone, so is D&D 3E. (They're not.) If RuneQuest 6 is a retroclone, so is D&D 4E. (They're not!) By what logic is HârnMaster a retroclone? By what logic is Shadowrun a retroclone? These games keep coming up with new editions that develop on the old ones. Seriously, compare RQ6 and RQ1-3 and tell me how RQ6 is somehow going backwards, when it takes most of its cues off HeroQuest and The Riddle of Steel!

So your response basically applies to HackMaster, but the latest edition is a wild departure from the original one and the "AD&D 1E affectionate, playable parody" roots.


Minis can have their uses in many RPGs. But being useful is not the same as being almost necessary, which is the case with DND.

To be clear, this went:


Aside from making combat positions slightly more convenient, what are they for?


I think you underestimate the value of making combat positions.


Unless you happen to be playing a game where combat positioning is much more abstract or not as important, like any modern RPG that's not DND.

I listed a small sample of RPGs where positioning is not abstract, or where miniatures can be useful. Then you brought up "(almost) necessary", which neither I nor mjlush said, nor implied.

[GnomeFighter]

Minis are always useful, but never vital. In very abstract systems they can slow things down, but they can still have use. You don't NEED them for D&D. I am playing a game at 4th ed the moment where we are not using any minis. No problems at all. We only have 3 PCs and we are all adult enough to be trusted to keep track of approximatly where we are.

It's not just D&D (which is the most played RPG anyway). Minis are usefull for all of the FF games. STAR WARS: Edge of the Empire comes with counters, and the full version is not even out yet.

In any system some way of tracking where people are and what they are doing in combat etc can be usefull. You don't need minis for this. Bits of paper will do the job, but minis make it look nicer.

Noone NEEDS a brand new BMW rather than a 10 year old Ford. People still by BMWs. Dosn't make them stupid for doing so.

[Deophaun]

You could make the same argument against any non-essential good or service.
Against? Wha?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It's similar to why people pay to read books, play games, watch movies, go to concerts, and listen to music when they can simply sit in the darkness and just imagine all that stuff for free.



You could make the same argument against any non-essential good or service.

Here's a relevant SMBC comic.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120716.gif
I think there was a modicum of sarcasm/joking in the post.

[TheEmerged]

I recently learned a benefit for using the cardboard cutouts - with a bit of computer magic, you can put your players' own pictures on them. When some of the players are elementary-school age, this seems to go over better than expected.

[Bulhakov]

I played and DM'd for years without needing minis, mostly because we either played in small groups (3 players) or the system didn't really benefit from it (Vampire).

However, when my gaming group grew to 5 players and I discovered the players really enjoyed some tactical battles, we started using cutout tokens I prepared myself. Something similar to:
http://battlegroundsgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2906

[Sylthia]

It doesn't have to necessarily be minis, but as many others have said, it's nice to have some sort of way to imagine how the battle is going at a glance. Often, I just use extra dice to signify the mook enemies. (d12s aren't used for much else anyway.)

[Ozreth]

Guys it's a silly question from somebody who's been on these boards for 5 years. He/she knows what people think the pros and cons are. I believe this is a SMALL degree of trolling. He/she isn't contributing much to the convo either just sitting back and watching the carnage :p

[huttj509]

Guys it's a silly question from somebody who's been on these boards for 5 years. He/she knows what people think the pros and cons are. I believe this is a SMALL degree of trolling. He/she isn't contributing much to the convo either just sitting back and watching the carnage :p

Actually, it's just a poorly worded question that was clarified further down page 1.

"Why use miniatures instead of beads/tokens/coins/whatever?"

To which the answer is generally "aesthetic appeal."

[Waar]

I get that, buy why bother buying them? Is it peer pressure? What would happen to someone who doesn't do miniatures in a group that does?

Just use what you have on hand d6,lego,coins,tokens, a pice of paper and so on. No need to buy new miniatures if you don't want to. :smallwink:

[magwaaf]

that's really it, but it makes combat flow so much easier and makes flanking and aoo's easier to determine not too mention spell areas

[Tvtyrant]

Actually, it's just a poorly worded question that was clarified further down page 1.

"Why use miniatures instead of beads/tokens/coins/whatever?"

To which the answer is generally "aesthetic appeal."

Yup. Especially when something is far larger than the party members, it is nice to have models to convey the size difference. I also like set pieces that go on top of battle maps for that reason; a T-rex looks a lot bigger next to a person hiding in a hut that is shorter than the dino is than it does on a flat battle map being compared to a dice piece.

[SoC175]

Most of the games you mention are retroclones, purposely made to emulate oldschool RPGs. Their previous editions, in some cases. Go figure.
Minis can have their uses in many RPGs. But being useful is not the same as being almost necessary, which is the case with DND. I personally don't like them, they represent a facet of RPGs I don't like - treating the game as a tactical wargame rather than a roleplaying one. And none of the "modern" games who aren't relying as much on position and tactical combat and are less wargame like, etc. come even near the numbers of players that D&D and Pathfinder have. Go figure

I want to find reasons/ways to use minis. I mean, they're little people you can move around and they've got cool poses and they're colorful and-- This, totally this!

When asked if I am willing to DM a LFR game for our gameday I flip through the adventures and select the one that allows me to use my coolest minis :smallbiggrin: