is this crazy?

[pyromanser244]

I was looking threw templates lately while building another character when I saw something that grabbed me. gravetouched ghoul (libris mortis). no racial HD, increases to all attributes, multiattack as a bonus feat, and paralysis on hits. add to it a class that let's me use grapple rules to resolve multiple claws as touch attacks and coup de grace the victim ounce they fail their fort save.

so am I crazy or could this make for a good monk build?

[Verditude]

The template makes him chaotic evil, so he can't advance as a monk after he takes it. You also get LA +2, so keep that in mind.

[Maginomicon]

The template makes him chaotic evil, so he can't advance as a monk after he takes it. You also get LA +2, so keep that in mind.

True, but he could always take the Chaos Monk variant (Dragon Magazine #335 page 89).

Important thing to note: The Chaos Monk should be treated as having all the standard monk class features that make sense. That means that that chaos monk (and sidewinder monk) have flurry of blows for the purposes of prerequisites and don’t lose any of the bonus feats attributed to a standard monk, thus they qualify for most standard monk feature-swapping variants.

[Flickerdart]

What are the saves based on, CHA? Because a monk's CHA is going to be lousy. Oh, also going undead means that you're suddenly extremely frail with no way to improve that...try and grapple most things in the game and they will tear your head off.

[mangosta71]

Using a d12 instead of a d8 for hp means you'll have 2 more hp per level, which is about as much CON bonus as the horrifically MAD monk can afford.

[Flickerdart]

Using a d12 instead of a d8 for hp means you'll have 2 more hp per level, which is about as much CON bonus as the horrifically MAD monk can afford.
At level 1, maybe. As the levels climb, so will the monk's CON bonus, since even a +6 item is a mere 36k, which is nothing by the time you hit your teens.

[pyromanser244]

What are the saves based on, CHA? Because a monk's CHA is going to be lousy. Oh, also going undead means that you're suddenly extremely frail with no way to improve that...try and grapple most things in the game and they will tear your head off.

the template gives me +2 str, int, and cha along with +4 dex, and wis. and since I loose con I don't need to put anything into it and so can afford a higher cha than most any other monk. plus ability focus, plus forcing multiple saves a round and I've got a decent chance of paralyzing anything not a raging barbarian or naturally immune to the affect.

I could also focus on stunning fist feats to get a higher DC ability and save the claws for stuff I know can't handle fort saves.

besides I'd be undead and therefore a candidate for spellstiching. why grapple someone I know can beat me when I could use ray of exhaustion and summon undead to solve the problem?:smallamused:


now that I think about it how would the claws work with unarmed strike?
do the LA buy off rules care when the template is applied?

[The Ravensong]

Advance him as a drunken master that attacks people with tombstones a la Solomon Grundy!
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9241/825865-001.jpg

[Maginomicon]

now that I think about it how would the claws work with unarmed strike?Simple. They don't. By RAW (and with good reason), natural weapons such as claws don't count as unarmed strikes (and thus can't be used as part of a flurry of blows). Read this article (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10994.0) for more information.

However, since a creature inherently can use all of its natural weapons in a full attack routine, what essentially would end up happening is that in a full attack you could flurry of blows with unarmed strikes and include your claw attack with a -5 penalty for that attack (because including non-natural a.k.a. "manufactured" weapons in an full-attack routine causes the natural weapons to all be treated as "secondary" natural weapons during the routine, which unless you have the multiattack feat means the natural weapons get a -5 to the attack roll).

Thus, a first level monk with a single claw attack would have a full-attack routine of "-2/-2/-5" (the first two from flurry of blows and the last from a claw attack, although if you "hold" a weapon in a claw during the flurry you don't get to attack with that claw).

[Flickerdart]

besides I'd be undead and therefore a candidate for spellstiching. why grapple someone I know can beat me when I could use ray of exhaustion and summon undead to solve the problem?:smallamused:
Because spellstitching is LA--, not playable.

[pyromanser244]

Because spellstitching is LA--, not playable.

ok where can I find this particular rule?

[Flickerdart]

ok where can I find this particular rule?
Which rule? That they don't have a listed level adjustment? That's in the template. That you can't play a creature without a level adjustment? That's in the "monsters as races" section of I think the Monster Manual, also included in the SRD.

[pyromanser244]

Which rule? That they don't have a listed level adjustment? That's in the template. That you can't play a creature without a level adjustment? That's in the "monsters as races" section of I think the Monster Manual, also included in the SRD.

if the monster manuals said anything about this then I couldn't find it. and I looked threw them all. the SRD actually had the entry you mentioned and here is the only line from it that even addressed the issue:

"Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics"

..........
:smallconfused: :smallannoyed: :smallmad: :smallfurious:

I'm guessing this is what you were referring to? cause this is one thing I'd have no trouble houseruling out. I'd buy that the LA is going to change depending on the base critter and spell list, but that doesn't make the template "unsuitable" let alone inapplicable. it even says, in the template text, that undead spellcasters could spellstich themselves. it acts more like a complex permanency spell than anything else.

[Flickerdart]

Yes, the only thing stopping you from playing a character with a template that has no listed LA are the level adjustment rules. If you've got a DM who lets you play stuff without listed LA for whatever reason, then go for it.

[ko_sct]

Do note, however, that spellstitching is often considered a special case.

Because even though they are la-, they have a steep xp and gold cost and well detailled instructions on how to create them and if you are a corporal undead, you would qualifie if it wasn't for the la-.

Personnally, and I know I'm not the only one, I consider spellstitched to be fair ground as long as you actually pay the price, instend of like, saying it was done by a benevolent necromancer in your background. And I do not generally allow la- monsters.