Companions of the Hall vs Fellowship of the Ring

[gurgleflep]

Here's a question for all of you. I don't have stats on anybody, unfortunately.

Okay, which team would win between the Companions of the Hall:
Drizzt, Wulfgar, Bruenor, Catti-Brie, Regis, and Guenhwyvar
and the Fellowship of the Ring:
Aragorn, Legolas, Gimili, Boromir, Merry, Pippin, Frodo, Sam and Gandalf (the Gray, the fellowship was whole (nobody had died nor were they split up) when he was gray).

The teams are uneven seeing as the Companions don't have a spellcaster of any sort and their size is a bit smaller, so lets use Harkel Harpel.

1.) Team versus team in different locations - hilly wilderness, a flat prarie, cave system (appropriately lit).
2.) Dungeon crawl - goblins, orcs, hobgoblins and one giant at the end of the cave; plenty of traps; loot!

I'll be clarifying any points and modifying this as the post goes on so that I may get the best answers.

Edit: Specified which Gandalf and explained why.

[Alleran]

Depends on which argument you subscribe to about the levels of the LotR characters. Although I think WotC used Gandalf somewhere as an example of an epic-level character.

[gurgleflep]

Depends on which argument you subscribe to about the levels of the LotR characters. Although I think WotC used Gandalf somewhere as an example of an epic-level character.

Is there a listing for everybody as being level 10s or so? :smallconfused:
Maybe not 10s, that seems a bit weak. Proportionate levels though.

[Arskanator]

Is there a listing for everybody as being level 10s or so? :smallconfused:
Maybe not 10s, that seems a bit weak. Proportionate levels though.

Well, Gandalf for one was clearly only level 5.

[awa]

what do you mean proportionate levels?

the companions live in a higher power level universe. They are more powerful (i don't like them but that doesn't mean there weak)

the fellowship mostly kills orcs with the odd ogre the companions kill demons, dragon, were-beast and more. They are physically and skill wise equally to or better than with powerful magic items on top of that.

gandalf is a weird one but as far as i know he never uses powerful magic on living mortal enemies and the companions can handle a few burning pine cones.

[dascarletm]

Well, Gandalf for one was clearly only level 5.

Gandalf was clearly a Outsider with 1-2/day spellike abilities.

Also with Special Ability:

DM Fiat: Whenever the party needs something to survive Gandalf comes to the rescue with something miraculous, but only in the very nick-of-time. These abilities cannot be used outside of saving the party. For example, if the party is about to fall off a cliff Gandalf can have Giant Eagles come and save them. They will help as much as to recue the party and kill any non-essential NPCs fighting them. These birds cannot be used to transport the party anywhere else, however.

[gurgleflep]

what do you mean proportionate levels?

the companions live in a higher power level universe. They are more powerful (i don't like them but that doesn't mean there weak)

the fellowship mostly kills orcs with the odd ogre the companions kill demons, dragon, were-beast and more. They are physically and skill wise equally to or better than with powerful magic items on top of that.

gandalf is a weird one but as far as i know he never uses powerful magic on living mortal enemies and the companions can handle a few burning pine cones.

Proportionate meaning as equal as possible. One of the teams has a few less people, so maybe a couple additional levels.

[dascarletm]

Proportionate meaning as equal as possible. One of the teams has a few less people, so maybe a couple additional levels.

So are you asking which has a better diversity within the party?

[gurgleflep]

So are you asking which has a better diversity within the party?

Yeah, kinda. I don't know how to word everything though.
I'm also trying to step away from "These guys versus these guys. Who wins?" By adding a few more twists. I want them to be as equal as possible when statted out and such.

[Tanuki Tales]

It's really speculative about the Forgotten Realms being more powerful than Middle-Earth.

We know that while Ao is incredibly powerful, he's not a true omnipotent since he answers to an undefined power.

So, that leaves Middle-Earth in the lead on a grand scale since Eru Ilúvatar is pretty much suggested to be a true omnipotent.

Also, I'm only up to....Silent Blade. Did the Companions even have any weapons not forged by mortal means? Because otherwise they flat out can't hurt Gandalf the White. And the folks over at the OBD put Gandalf the White at at least Small Mountain destructive capacity, so he's going to one-shot any of the Companions (as far as I've read).

[gurgleflep]

It's really speculative about the Forgotten Realms being more powerful than Middle-Earth.

We know that while Ao is incredibly powerful, he's not a true omnipotent since he answers to an undefined power.

So, that leaves Middle-Earth in the lead on a grand scale since Eru Ilúvatar is pretty much suggested to be a true omnipotent.

Also, I'm only up to....Silent Blade. Did the Companions even have any weapons not forged by mortal means? Because otherwise they flat out can't hurt Gandalf the White. And the folks over at the OBD put Gandalf the White at at least Small Mountain destructive capacity, so he's going to one-shot any of the Companions (as far as I've read).

I'm up to The Thousand Orcs and so far I don't think they've got any god-made weapons as of yet. I'm not sure, I may have missed something. Closest thing I can think of is Crenshinibon, and that's an evil thing similar to the One Ring.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm up to The Thousand Orcs and so far I don't think they've got any god-made weapons as of yet. I'm not sure, I may have missed something. Closest thing I can think of is Crenshinibon, and that's an evil thing similar to the One Ring.

Then yeah, Gandalf the White solos.

[gurgleflep]

Then yeah, Gandalf the White solos.

So to even things out more, should I take him out?

[Tanuki Tales]

So to even things out more, should I take him out?

Or at least specify him as Gandalf the Grey. I mean, he's still a probable small mountain buster and has small mountain durability, but at least Drizzt could conceivably speedblitz him and try to hurt him.

He's definitely the biggest gun for the Fellowship, who are at best Peak Human.

Come to think of it...things are either fragile or "LolNope" in the Drizzt books, so Peak Humans would probably do well against the Companions.

[Hikarizu]

Well, Gandalf for one was clearly only level 5.
Level 5 Wizard you mean. He obviously have some fighter/rogue levels on top of that.

[gurgleflep]

Or at least specify him as Gandalf the Grey. I mean, he's still a probable small mountain buster and has small mountain durability, but at least Drizzt could conceivably speedblitz him and try to hurt him.

He's definitely the biggest gun for the Fellowship, who are at best Peak Human.

Come to think of it...things are either fragile or "LolNope" in the Drizzt books, so Peak Humans would probably do well against the Companions.

I've changed it to specify Gandalf the Grey. In both forum posts (having posted it in the Media forums didn't help on the statting part as much as I would have hoped).


Level 5 Wizard you mean. He obviously have some fighter/rogue levels on top of that.

He seemed to have favored melee combat in both the books and the movies, so I think that's fair.

[awa]

gandalf never blows up a mountain even gandalf the white never cast anything even remotely comparable to a 9th level spell.

gandalfs power level is incredibly unreliable in the lord of the rings battles are won or lost by mortals.

Look at the great artifacts of the lord of the rings for the most part they can be replicated with fairly low level d&d magic items. So what would require a god to make in the lord of the rings universe is not even an epic magic item much less an artifact in a d&d world.

edit
if your goal is to have them all the same level and just compare their builds
the drow is dead weight, two weapon fighting with no light weapons and no source of extra damage on top of drow level adjustment means he is far weaker then his actual level.

[Tanuki Tales]

gandalf never blows up a mountain even gandalf the white never cast anything even remotely comparable to a 9th level spell.

You understand that "Small Mountain" can cover anything that's at least 141 feet in height, right? Gandalf the Grey and Durin's Bane showed what they're capable of in their fight and that's even before you bring in powerscaling off other Maiar from other books like the Silmarillion.

And while no, he doesn't have flashy magic like in DnD while restricted to his mortal body, he still has more impressive power than any of the characters he's being pitted against.

[awa]

he never uses that power against anything mortal.
Drizzt beats a balor to

141 is insanely small for a mountain most definitions of mountain i know tend to aim at closer 1000

[Coidzor]

What point in their career are we taking the Companions of the Hall? Are we talking still kinda new to the surface world Drizzt (so, around level 8-10, IIRC) or end of his novel career Drizzt?


Proportionate meaning as equal as possible. One of the teams has a few less people, so maybe a couple additional levels.

It seems like that would compromise the experiment by equalizing their capabilities and allowing the 4, essentially non-combatant hobbits, to contribute in such a way as to help overwhelm Drizzt and company.

[Shining Wrath]

Aragorn was described in LOTR as "the greatest wanderer and adventurer of the age". He's been continually adventuring for sixty-some odd years, being 87 at the time of the War of the Ring. He gets the pluses (wisdom etc), therefore, of being a venerable human, but none of the minuses, since his lifespan is quite a bit longer than that of a normal human.

And he's got a legendary magic sword.

I say Aragorn son of Arathorn, all by his lonesome, takes anything the Companions can take.

[Icewraith]

Gandalf the Grey solos some kind of ancient evil monstrosity that directly inspires the D&D Balor and/or Pit Fiend.

Icingdeath, by virtue of being some kind of supercharged evil outsider bane weapon, solos a Balor. Drizz't just happens to have it at the time and lucks out (and wins initiative?). He is fortunate that many of his more significant opponents summon or are evil outsiders (including the Balor again, at which point he has help and the sword still).

Harkle Harpell prepares Tenser's Transformation, tends to be ineffective with combat magic, and has the common sense and survival instincts of a concussed duckling in an eagle nest.

Drizz't, despite whatever mechanical setbacks his TWF build should have, is a freakin' good swordfighter.

Aragorn is some kind of templated, long living human, who has been everywhere and done almost everything. He is at minimum Drizzt's equal, if not significantly his better. He also THFs which confers a mechanical advantage under D&D rules.

Boromir is a pretty good fighter himself, he seems to only have fallen prey to the PC vs Army natural 20 attack roll issue.

Wulfgar is also a pretty good fighter, except he's a head case from that whole "kidnapped by demons and tortured" thing and clearly doesn't have the best will save. He also appears to be weak to falling rocks. He probably wins if he squares off vs. Boromir (THF vs SnB).

Legolas one-shots a Nazgul's dragon mount thingy. This one might be a bit more even, because Cattie-Brie packs a pretty mean bow herself.

Bruenor and Gimli are both solid Dwarf Fighters. Mechanically the 2h style is superior to sword-and-board in D&D, so slight advantage Gimli. Bruenor has killed a dragon, but he had significant help and ended up winning due to bundle of explosives.

Regis has some sort of will save fascinating artifact gem that mainly works on greedy or stupid people. He tends to be pretty useless when it comes to fighting. Frodo has a REALLY good will save vs ancient evil artifacts and poor to moderate fighting ability. He's also apparently good at Diplomancy (converts a hostile opponent to helpful for a period of time).

Three of the four hobbits end up being reasonably good combatants capable of taking on ancient evil spiders, giant troll-ogre guys, and making the will save vs. Nazgul fear and hitting its armor class.

Depending on how you stat Guen she is either a good match for the hobbits or will eat all of them.

I think the fellowship's got this one in the bag. If you exclude Gandalf and maybe Aragorn it gets substantially more even.

[Tanuki Tales]

he never uses that power against anything mortal.
Drizzt beats a balor to

You mean the plot killed Errtu.


141 is insanely small for a mountain most definitions of mountain i know tend to aim at closer 1000

The world's smallest mountain is only 141...so...yeah.