3.5 Eberron - Shifter Multiattack Feat

[Wheels]

Hello everyone,

So I got this player that has a Shifter (Razorclaw) and soon he is taking the feat Extra Shifter Trait:Longtooth. With this he gets 2 natural weapons while shifting - Claws as primary and bite as secondary.

So I have a couple os questions regarding this and I hope u guys can help me out ^^

1st scenario - At this time he uses a great axe as his main weapon. He wants to take the feat Shifter Multiattack (link here (http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/shifter-multiattack--2608/)) so when he shifts he can let go of his great axe and use this 2x claws + bite at a -2 penalty for secondary attacks. I told him no because the feat states that he only gets the -2 penalty instead of the -5 if we attacks with a weapon (manufactured) and then use a natural weapon. Is my interpretation correct? or can he use this feat with using nothing but natural weapons?

2nd Scenario: This is more a natural weapon question. If he takes the feat Shifter Multiattack and while shifting only uses his natural weapons how does it work? Can he attack x2 Claw at full BAB and then use the bite at -2 (because of the feat) or does the offhand claw get any penalty?

3rd Scenario: He also takes the feat Shifter Multiattack. This time, on one hand he uses a 1-handed weapon (for example a long sword) and then used a Claw and a Bite. How will the penalties work? Are both claw and bite considered as a secondary natural weapon and only get -2 penalty because of the feat?

Thank you in advance for the responses.

[The Viscount]

First, quick tip: I don't think we're allowed to link to dndtools due to it containing non-ogl content.

Now, to answers.

1.It's not quite that simple. Shifter multiattack allows for penalty reduction on a secondary natural attack. whether the primary is weapon or natural does not matter. However, shifter multiattack only allows for a single secondary attack to be made at -2. Your player can take multiattack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiattack) if he wishes. It allows what he wants. However, the attack routine mentioned is not allowed. Razorclaw does not allow you to make a weapon, drop the weapon, and then attack with claw. If you were to have a weapon in one hand, you could attack with it, then attack with a bite and claw (or claw and bite) at a -2 and -5 penalty, respectively if you had shifter multiattack. If you have normal multiattack, both are made at -2. However, Razorclaw's oddities mean that all attacks in this round get an additional -2 penalty.

2. Yes, the 2 claws function at normal bonus, and the bite would be made with a -2 penalty if you have shifter multiattack. The claws together get to count as primary weapons, so the second claw has no penalty.

3. Both claw and bite are considered secondary natural attacks. Natural attacks are only ever considered primary or secondary. If you attacked with weapon, claw, and bite, claw and bite take a -2 penalty from being secondary natural attacks. However, you would need Multiattack for this to work. Shifter Multiattack would presumably give a -2 to one and a -5 to the other. Note that Razorclaw means that all attacks in this round take a -2 penalty.

Hope this makes sense. Natural attacks are a messy business.

[Wheels]

thank you for the reply.

just to leave it here:


Razorclaw (Su): While shifting, a razorclaw shifter gains a +2 bonus to Strength and grows claws that can be used as natural weapons.
These claws deal 1d4 points of damage (plus an additional +1 for every four character levels she has) with each successful attack.
She can attack with one claw as a standard action or with two claws as a full attack action (as a primary natural weapon).
She can not attack more than once per round with a single claw, even if her base attack bonus is high enough to give her multiple attacks.
She can attack with a claw as a light off-hand weapon while wielding a weapon in her primary hand, but all her attacks in that round take a –2 penalty


1. Well I guess as usual the wording they use can lead to diferent interpretation. Even now reading it, I would assume only manufactured weapons.

I didnt explain well. The player didnt want to attack with weapon and then attack with claws. What I was trying to say is when he shifted, he would let go of the weapon and only attack with the claws and bite.

2. Reading the razorclaw rules, if he only attacks with claws + bite, those -2 penalty dont apply right? It says only when using his claw as a off-hand weapon.

3. Ok. so in this case, we got weapon at normal bonus, claws at -4 (-2 from shifter multiattack and -2 from Razorclaw rules) and bite at -7 (-5 since he doesnt have multiattack and -2 from Razorclaw rules)

On the side note, he is considering shifter multiattack and not multiattack so he can stack shifter feats

[Philistine]

1) Shifter Multiattack doesn't say anything about "a single secondary natural attack," it just says "your secondary natural attack." I suppose you could construe it as lessening the penalty on just one attack, but I'm not sure why you would - I read it as "if you make an attack with a secondary natural weapon, the penalty is reduced to -2." Viscount is correct that this doesn't impose any conditions on your primary attack.

2) That's correct - with an all-natural attacks Full Attack routine, both Claws are Primary and only the Bite is secondary. If the player uses a manufactured weapon in place of one Claw, then the other Claw takes a -2 penalty; otherwise it does not.

3) No. Even with Viscount's reading of #1, this is imposing the same penalty twice per natural attack. With Sword/Claw/Bite, the attack penalties are 0/-2/-2 (or 0/-2/-5 if you take Viscount's "single attack" reading), not 0/-4/-7.

I believe an update in Races of Eberron allows Multiattack to count as a Shifter Feat - this basically makes Shifter Multiattack completely obsolete, since Multiattack is easier to qualify for and unequivocally applies to all secondary natural weapons; but frankly, that's Shifter Multiattack's bad for being strictly worse than an already-existing Feat.