What class are babies born into?

[CyberThread]

I was trying to figure out, as we have no level 0

What class are babies born in, do they instantly become commoners or aristocrats, or are some choose sorcerer due to the fact it is innate magic?

[Silva Stormrage]

I believe they would just have a single racial hd and not any level of any class. That hd gets replaced when they take their first class level.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd say they start with a Humanoid racial hit die, which they later convert into their first class level.

EDIT: Silva Swordsage'd..

[limejuicepowder]

Commoner, probably - though it's never explicitly stated. Creatures without RHD listed in the MM have are stated out with a level of warrior Racial hit die, my mistake. It says they trade out this level if they take levels as a PC.

Commoner would make the most sense, changing it to warrior, expert, aristocrat, or staying commoner as they age. PC's or important NPC change it out for PC classes.

and I was ninja'd

[Deepbluediver]

I had a thread a while back where I proposed that all adult humanoids should really start at 3 HD, with children, adolescents, and teenagers being 1, 2, and 3 HD with ability penalties, to better represent various stages of development. (plus it addresses that killer-housecat problem)

I said that infants where a special category of creature that had no class or HD, just 1 HP.

[awa]

the default game assumes that human children much less babies are not worth having mechanics for not there are stat modifiers for middle age+ but non for younger then starting age.

by the rules you are only a sorcerer at age 16+ for humans

if you go the rout of start one class then exchange to another one you run into the fact that commoners actually get skills that other classes do not so you would need to say having become an adult you forget how to spot.
edit to deal with ninjas
if you do racial hit die you have the problem that a humanoid hit die is better then a level in commoner and more durable then rogues and wizards.

using the 3 hit dice for all adults means that say a baboon which can be extremely dangerous to a normal person isn't even a threat to a scribe much less a burly farmer.

[Slipperychicken]

I said that infants where a special category of creature that had no class or HD, just 1 HP.

[Que unpleasant stories of babies taking multiple points of damage without losing consciousness]


EDIT: You could always go Bethesda's route and just say "no, you can't kill children, you goddamn psychopath".

[Sylthia]

Just apply the "Young" template to them twice, and add the ability to Fascinate adult members of the species at will.

[Marnath]

Just apply the "Young" template to them twice, and add the ability to Fascinate adult members of the species at will.

Don't forget to give males a racial bonus to their save vs. that ability. :smalltongue:

[Tulya]

Hrm, that would be hilarious. A human with a single Humanoid hit die would lose an average of 2.5 HP and proficiency with all but one simple weapon upon transitioning to the Commoner NPC class. Even if you use youth age penalties to stats, they'd need -6 to Constitution to have less health than their mature selves, on average.

[Gnome Alone]

Plz help need baby prestige class dont wanna take Skill Focus (Pooping) seems like a trap kthx

[SaintRidley]

Don't forget to give males a racial bonus to their save vs. that ability. :smalltongue:

Why? Men are no less susceptible to the charms of a bald, pudgy miniature humanoid than women are.



Hrm, that would be hilarious. A human with a single Humanoid hit die would lose an average of 2.5 HP and proficiency with all but one simple weapon upon transitioning to the Commoner NPC class. Even if you use youth age penalties to stats, they'd need -6 to Constitution to have less health than their mature selves, on average.


Well, growing up does seem to leave a good portion of the population incompetent. Unintended realism in D&D?

[Sylthia]

Plz help need baby prestige class dont wanna take Skill Focus (Pooping) seems like a trap kthx

I'd take Weapon Focus: Projectile Vomiting, it stacks well with the circumstance bonus you get when you smell clean clothes.


Hrm, that would be hilarious. A human with a single Humanoid hit die would lose an average of 2.5 HP and proficiency with all but one simple weapon upon transitioning to the Commoner NPC class. Even if you use youth age penalties to stats, they'd need -6 to Constitution to have less health than their mature selves, on average.

Kids do heal a lot faster than adults do.

[CyberThread]

Wow, I would say babies have some attraction, look at how my post we have in such little time.

[Sylthia]

Wow, I would say babies have some attraction, look at how my post we have in such little time.

My wife and I can summon babies, it is just limited to once per 9 months, and it makes our WBL go down.

[Malak'ai]

My wife and I can summon babies, it is just limited to once per 9 months, and it makes our WBL go down.

Would it be Ritual Casting, or Spontanious?

[BWR]

As long as the casting time is generous. It's not worth using Quicken on.

[Ashtagon]

Would it be Ritual Casting, or Spontanious?

Can you even cast summon baby as a prepared caster?

[Sylthia]

Can you even cast summon baby as a prepared caster?

Yes, it involves candles and romantic music.

[Eldonauran]

Yes, it involves candles and romantic music.

Spell foci ftw.

[Slipperychicken]

My wife and I can summon babies, it is just limited to once per 9 months, and it makes our WBL go down.

Don't forget, you can get multiple kids in the same 9-month period if you keep getting the "Additional Child" result. I heard someone once got 8 babies, so I don't think there's a hard cap on it.

You also have to roll on the Childbirth Complications table, and that's never fun. Even when you have a skilled doctor, masterwork tools, and modifiers from 21st Century Medicine, there's still a good chance the child and/or mother will die outright (potentially inflicting SAN damage on anyone in the room), or take flaws/disabilities.

The idea behind it seems to be to discourage people from just spamming babies every year and getting them to do work for you (even so, it's still a good tactic for poor low-tech farmers. The Manpower bonus is really nice, and the upkeep is lower than hired workers).

[dascarletm]

Yes, it involves candles and romantic music.

Don't forget all the expensive material components, (Dinner etc.)

[Tvtyrant]

Don't forget, you can get multiple kids in the same 9-month period if you keep getting the "Additional Child" result. I heard someone once got 8 babies, so I don't think there's a hard cap on it.


Some people abuse the flaw system endlessly... How many +1 in fame does one caster need???

[White_Drake]

You also have to roll on the Childbirth Complications table, and that's never fun. Even when you have a skilled doctor, masterwork tools, and modifiers from 21st Century Medicine, there's still a good chance the child and/or mother will die outright (potentially inflicting SAN damage on anyone in the room), or take flaws/disabilities.

Good chance? What exactly are the odds; I had assumed they were relatively low.

Also, I loathe babies, as do many people, so Fascinate at-will can't be right.

Edit: I've got to stop trying to conjoin interrogative clauses with statements... Does that sentence even have a proper form of punctuation?

[Sylthia]

Also, I loathe babies, as do many people, so Fascinate at-will can't be right.

You've just been making your Will saves.

[Marnath]

Why? Men are no less susceptible to the charms of a bald, pudgy miniature humanoid than women are.

You must come from a different culture than I do if that's the case where you live. :smallwink: Most of the men I've known have very little use for babies before the age when they can be taught to play with trucks.(gotta have some excuse to play with those again right? :smallbiggrin:)

[Slipperychicken]

Good chance? What exactly are the odds; I had assumed they were relatively low.

It is low when you stack up all those modifiers you get for having a modern hospital do it, but compared to the potential loss, it's still something to consider. Just remember it's not 100% guaranteed success.

[Jeff the Green]

Also, I loathe babies, as do many people, so Fascinate at-will can't be right.

Well, perhaps it's a special ability: for some it works as fascinate, some it works as antipathy, and some it works as confusion.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I believe they would just have a single racial hd and not any level of any class. That hd gets replaced when they take their first class level.

Which means that commoners are weaker than babies... whoops.

[Frosty]

[Que unpleasant stories of babies taking multiple points of damage without losing consciousness]


EDIT: You could always go Bethesda's route and just say "no, you can't kill children, you goddamn psychopath".
However, in Fallout 3 you *can* sell one into slavery by her into the hands of a slaver, who talks her into putting on a "friendship collar."

[Eldonauran]

You've just been making your Will saves.

I second this comment. :smallamused:

[KillianHawkeye]

Babies don't have class levels. They are Tiny humanoids with 1/4 HD and 1 or 2 hp, tops. They don't even have a move speed until they're a few months old.

[White_Drake]

...But I dumped Wisdom... :smallconfused:

[Sylthia]

...But I dumped Wisdom... :smallconfused:

It's sounds like you've just been using your "lucky" d20 for those rolls, then.

[White_Drake]

I wish I knew which one that was; I've been tanking my diplomacy rolls. I took a flaw which applies a massive penalty when interacting with the opposite sex in exchange for a bonus on knowledge checks.

[Sylthia]

I wish I knew which one that was; I've been tanking my diplomacy rolls. I took a flaw which applies a massive penalty when interacting with the opposite sex in exchange for a bonus on knowledge checks.

Maybe that's the same flaw that gave you a bonus to the Fascinate rolls. I've found that failing that roll gives me a Charisma bonus around most women.

[Slipperychicken]

I wish I knew which one that was; I've been tanking my diplomacy rolls. I took a flaw which applies a massive penalty when interacting with the opposite sex in exchange for a bonus on knowledge checks.

It could easily be dumping Charisma to bring your Intelligence up. Charisma is, after all, the ultimate dumpstat.

[ShadowFireLance]

See, I have no problems with babies..except for the constant crying.
And the crying.
And more of the crying.
Even moreso, when i'm Trying to listen.
:smallannoyed:

But hey, I have this odd PrC that lets me add my Cha 18 to Will, so...

[Malak'ai]

See, I have no problems with babies..except for the constant crying.
And the crying.
And more of the crying.
Even moreso, when i'm Trying to listen.
:smallannoyed:

But hey, I have this odd PrC that lets me add my Cha 18 to Will, so...

Yeah, and the constant pooping... And the stickiness, and the pooping.

[White_Drake]

It could easily be dumping Charisma to bring your Intelligence up. Charisma is, after all, the ultimate dumpstat.

What sucks is that I had to roll my stats, so I'm not even sure if it counts as dumping when five of my abilities are below ten.

[Malak'ai]

What sucks is that I had to roll my stats, so I'm not even sure if it counts as dumping when five of my abilities are below ten.

That's an illegal set, you're allowed to re-roll.

[JusticeZero]

I actually had to deal with this. In my game, your starting HP includes a +4 bonus to hp. This is because commoners have 4 hp, no class skills and no good saving throws. Therefore the jump to level one adds things that are all normal additions to the character when leveling.

[Slipperychicken]

That's an illegal set, you're allowed to re-roll.

Not necessarily. He might have rolled quite high for the others.

Alternatively, he's a nonelite NPC to whom those rules don't apply, who simply keeps whatever stat/hp rolls life hands him.

EDIT: I, on the other hand, once guessed my stats, which happened to perfectly match an Elite Array distribution. Maybe I'm destined to work as a consultant for the evil corporation, and run for my life as PCs do something insane like crash a helicopter into my workplace.

[Malak'ai]

Not necessarily. He might have rolled quite high for the others.

Alternatively, he's a nonelite NPC to whom those rules don't apply, who simply keeps whatever stat/hp rolls life hands him.

EDIT: I, on the other hand, once guessed my stats, which happened to perfectly match an Elite Array distribution. Maybe I'm destined to work as a consultant for the evil corporation, and run for my life as PCs do something insane like crash a helicopter into my workplace.

He'd need to some how roll at least a 20 to counter those, don't think you can do that with 4d6b3.

All the rest though seem to be the more likely.

[Chaosvii7]

I'd take Weapon Focus: Projectile Vomiting, it stacks well with the circumstance bonus you get when you smell clean clothes.


You simply have to eat the feat costs, though; Proficiency with Onesies and Footie Pajamas is too good to pass up, what with the arbitrarily high bonuses it gives to Charisma and saves.

[Deepbluediver]

It's sounds like you've just been using your "lucky" d20 for those rolls, then.

I'm thinking the DC for that save is like, 3 or something. They're just babies; they've got a CR of like 1/20, so how high can that save really be?

[Slipperychicken]

He'd need to some how roll at least a 20 to counter those, don't think you can do that with 4d6b3.

All the rest though seem to be the more likely.

Whoopsies, I thought he said four abilities below 10.

[Sylthia]

I'm thinking the DC for that save is like, 3 or something. They're just babies; they've got a CR of like 1/20, so how high can that save really be?

The DC is Charisma based for babies, and they can stack numerous bonuses to it.

[Rubik]

Don't forget to give males a racial bonus to their save vs. that ability. :smalltongue:And a save vs the sickened condition, to boot.

[Ashtagon]

That's an illegal set, you're allowed to re-roll.

No, that's not how it works. The player who created your character is allowed to re-roll your stats. Which can really suck if it is you who they decide to re-roll.

[Regitnui]

I'm thinking the DC for that save is like, 3 or something. They're just babies; they've got a CR of like 1/20, so how high can that save really be?

Evolution has granted children below puberty a +5 to the DC, which gradually falls as they approach adulthood. E.g.:
Babies and toddlers: +5 to Fascinate DC. Add +1 if male of same race and +2 if female of same race.

[TuggyNE]

No, that's not how it works. The player who created your character is allowed to re-roll your stats. Which can really suck if it is you who they decide to re-roll.

That explains a lot. Some noob up there keeps rerolling hundreds of characters, but for some reason most of them are over in India or China. When will they learn the law of conservation of (N)PC stat blocks!?

[Sugashane]

From what I gather from reading the SRD I'm making up as I type, they count as familiars that are very high maintenance and give no bonuses in or out of combat.

[TuggyNE]

From what I gather from reading the SRD I'm making up as I type, they count as familiars that are very high maintenance and give no bonuses in or out of combat.

I totally thought this was posted in the Item Familiar thread for just a second. And I was like, "wait, what?" And then I was all "LOL yeah".

</valleygirl>

[Jeff the Green]

From what I gather from reading the SRD I'm making up as I type, they count as familiars that are very high maintenance and give no bonuses in or out of combat.

Funny, my copy says they grant a bonus to Fortitude checks to stay awake.

[Sylthia]

I'd be wary about bringing up any sort of geopolitics into the thread.

[TuggyNE]

I'd be wary about bringing up any sort of geopolitics into the thread.

I'd hoped simple geographic population trends were sufficiently devoid of political implications. :smallsigh:

[ShadowFireLance]

That explains a lot. Some noob up there keeps rerolling hundreds of characters, but for some reason most of them are over in India or China. When will they learn the law of conservation of (N)PC stat blocks!?

...Hmf....:smallamused:...hehehe.....:smallwink:.. ..Hahahaha.....
:smallbiggrin:
BUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying-with-laughter.gif
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh, Oh Dear Tiamat, I woke my Neighbors cause I was laughing so hard!
Dude, Permission to Sig?

[Malak'ai]

Funny, my copy says they grant a bonus to Fortitude checks to stay awake.

Also makes you immune to Magical Sleep effects via just waking you up every 5 minutes.

[Sylthia]

I'd hoped simple geographic population trends were sufficiently devoid of political implications. :smallsigh:

Yours was harmless enough, but there was another one that appears to have been deleted.

[Jeff the Green]

Also makes you immune to Magical Sleep effects via just waking you up every 5 minutes.

Yeah, my cat has that ability too. Thankfully it can be suppressed by feeding her. She also doesn't drain my WBL by anywhere near as much.

[TuggyNE]

...Hmf....:smallamused:...hehehe.....:smallwink:.. ..Hahahaha.....
:smallbiggrin:
BUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying-with-laughter.gif
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh, Oh Dear Tiamat, I woke my Neighbors cause I was laughing so hard!
Dude, Permission to Sig?

Hehe, sure! Happy to have satisfied! :smallamused: :smallcool:


Yours was harmless enough, but there was another one that appears to have been deleted.

Ah, I didn't see that. OK.

[Malak'ai]

Yeah, my cat has that ability too. Thankfully it can be suppressed by feeding her. She also doesn't drain my WBL by anywhere near as much.

You can do that with a baby as well, but then you have to burp them, clean them, change them (and yourself sometimes if they spit up or mimic a fountain) and get them back to sleep... Screw it... I'm just getting myself a cat!

[Sylthia]

If you want to get into some real summoning cheese, the babies that you summon can someone babies of their own once they advance a few age categories. You'll have an army of your own before you know it.

[KillianHawkeye]

You can do that with a baby as well, but then you have to burp them, clean them, change them (and yourself sometimes if they spit up or mimic a fountain) and get them back to sleep... Screw it... I'm just getting myself a cat!

Plus, cats only live about 20 years or so, and you don't have to put them through college!

[Deepbluediver]

Plus, cats only live about 20 years or so, and you don't have to put them through college!

Well if that's your attitude, no wonder so many cats have terrible grammar.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/666779904/h151AE550/
:P

[Malak'ai]

Well if that's your attitude, no wonder so many cats have terrible grammar.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/666779904/h151AE550/
:P

Hey! I have an idiot cat that can meow "Hello", "Mum"* and "Food" very well, even if you can't understand anything thing else he says.

*This is normally meowed in conjuction with "Hello" when he's wandering around looking for my mother.

[Urpriest]

EDIT: You could always go Bethesda's route and just say "no, you can't kill children, you goddamn psychopath".

IMO, this is actually the most consistent option. The only rules for even vaguely humanoid children in 3.5 are in the rules for giants. Giant infants have "no combat ability", while juvenile giants have 8 fewer RHD and adolescent giants have 4 fewer. Extrapolating this to humans, without any RHD all humans below adult age would have "no combat ability". Since infant giants aren't even given hp, it's pretty clear that you're not supposed to be able to (or interested in) killing them. The same should probably apply to all children that don't have published stats.

[CyberThread]

so babies are 1/3 HD?