Advice on a build

[Svata]

Hey, everyone, I'm new here, and wanted to have some advice on a build I made recently. I just want advice on what I could have done better, because I have a bit of time to revamp the build. Here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=558771) a link to the sheet, restrictions and the allowed sources are as follows:

No LA buyoff, no fractional saves or BAB.

Sources: PHB, PHB II, DMG, MMI, Complete Arcane, Divine, Mage, Warrior, and Adventurer, Savage Species, Spell Compendium, Unearthed Arcana (some of it...) but no others. No exceptions. The Epic Level Handbook will be added to the list of sources available when you get to Epic Levels.

Thanks in advance for all of your advice and suggestions.

[Tvtyrant]

Why the four levels in Cleric? If they were 4 more levels of wizard you would get 8th level spells. A few low level spell slots do not make up for a similar amount in higher level spell slots IMO.

Since you are going to move into Epic soon, I would take a prestige class on your Wizard side. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is amazing, granting you full casting and a slew of defensive wards. It is also much easier to get into as a Wizard than a Sorcerer, as you don't waste spells known.

[Svata]

The cleric levels were because I HIGHLY doubt anyone else will be preparing spells just to heal the undead party members. Also, because we are doing saves and BAB by level, and I needed the bonus on both to keep up with the others in the party, such as these two here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=560468) and here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=557730). I know I'm hopelessly outclassed, but still, I got in somehow. Speaking of, here's my level progression
01 Sorcerer 01 || LA 01
02 Sorcerer 02 || LA 02
03 Sorcerer 03 || LA 03
04 Sorcerer 04 || LA 04
05 Sorcerer 05 || Wizard 01
06 Sorcerer 06 || Wizard 02
07 Sorcerer 07 || Wizard 03
08 Sorcerer 08 || Wizard 04
09 Sorcerer 09 || Cleric 01
10 Sorcerer 10 || Wizard 05
11 Sorcerer 11 || Wizard 06
12 Sorcerer 12 || Wizard 07
13 Sorcerer 13 || Cleric 02
14 Sorcerer 14 || Wizard 08
15 Sorcerer 15 || Wizard 09
16 Sorcerer 16 || Wizard 10
17 Sorcerer 17 || Cleric 03
18 Sorcerer 18 || Wizard 11
19 Sorcerer 19 || Cleric 04
20 Sorcerer 20 || Wizard 12

[Tvtyrant]

I really suggest you look at the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. It nets you immediate action wards which can block just about anything. Who needs saves when you cannot be targeted?

I don't see why you need a high BaB, since you can simply target enemies with spells, but if you need to heal yourself I would suggest wands of inflict light wounds. Healing in battle tends to be a terrible waste, as you are going to heal slower than the enemy does damage.

[Svata]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Where can I find that PrC?

[Tvtyrant]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Where can I find that PrC?

It can be found in the book Complete Arcane. It is a wonderful class, especially in epic.

[Svata]

Thank you much! Mind checking out the villain application I have for the same campaign?

[Tvtyrant]

Thank you much! Mind checking out the villain application I have for the same campaign?

Sure! I will be happy to.

[Svata]

New Progression:
01 Sorcerer 01 || LA 01
02 Sorcerer 02 || LA 02
03 Sorcerer 03 || LA 03
04 Sorcerer 04 || LA 04
05 Sorcerer 05 || Wizard 01
06 Sorcerer 06 || Wizard 02
07 Sorcerer 07 || Wizard 03
08 Sorcerer 08 || Wizard 04
09 Sorcerer 09 || Wizard 05
10 Sorcerer 10 || Wizard 06
11 Sorcerer 11 || Wizard 07
12 Sorcerer 12 || Wizard 08
13 Sorcerer 13 || Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 01
14 Sorcerer 14 || Wizard 09
15 Sorcerer 15 || Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 02
16 Sorcerer 16 || Wizard 10
17 Sorcerer 17 || Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 03
18 Sorcerer 18 || Wizard 11
19 Sorcerer 19 || Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 04
20 Sorcerer 20 || Wizard 12

And the sheet link (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=558771) again


Basically swapped cleric levels for initiate of the seven veils levels, and changed a spell or 2, but had to re-order and redo feats. That look better to you?

[Emperor Tippy]

Is there a particular reason that you are gestalting Wizard and Sorcerer? Or are interspersing your IotSFV levels with regular wizard levels?

[Svata]

Sorcerer//Wizard is because of flavor and story reasons. Interspersing is for saves, and because I was only allowed to do moderate revisions, nothing too major. The dropping of cleric was okayed on the premise that I keep all of my Sorcerer and Wizard levels, but was allowed to move them around.

[Emperor Tippy]

Sorcerer//Wizard is because of flavor and story reasons. Interspersing is for saves, and because I was only allowed to do moderate revisions, nothing too major. The dropping of cleric was okayed on the premise that I keep all of my Sorcerer and Wizard levels, but was allowed to move them around.

Oh. You plan on going Epic, correct?

[Svata]

That's right.

[Svata]

Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=561715) is that villain app. I know monk SUCKS, but its worth the dip, I think.

[Emperor Tippy]

How do you generally play? What's your characters role in the party and your general play style. Also how powerful are paranoid are you and the party generally?

[Svata]

Well, we just got done playtesting, actually, but my role there was crowd control and blasting, with a bit of buffing mixed in here and there. I play usually WARY, but not really PARANOID, I'd say. The playtest group was small, so I don't know about the group as a whole. I think the average power level of the party is a bit higher than mine, but I'm still viable. The only one that really outstrips everyone else, that I know of, is the Titan.

[Emperor Tippy]

I would probably drop the IotSFV levels for Archmage levels. The +1 CL is always nice and should apply to both your Sorcerer and Wizard levels. Mastery of Shaping makes you massively better at battlefield control. Mastery of the Elements significantly improves blasting (and again both of these would apply to both your Wizard and Sorcerer spell casting). Arcane Reach, Spell Like Ability with something like Time Stop or Shapechange, and even Mastery of Counterspelling can also all be great fun and versatile.

IotSFV is nice but it's relatively easy to pick up similar things without devoting your build to it. You have the money to get multiple Craft Contingent Resilient Spheres set to trigger from using Feather Fall (in effect an immediate cast Resilient Sphere) and you have the spell slots to load down on Celerity and Greater Celerity as Sorcerer spells known.

Celerity+Wall of Force can fake a lot of the benefits of IotSFV.

A Sculpt Spell + Mastery of Shaping Wall of Force can be incredibly powerful. It effectively gives you 8 little 1 square boxes of force to dump where you want in the area. Or do it with Anti Magic field and dump AMF's just on the squares that your enemies are standing on (delay until after their turn and then your entire party gets to attack enemies with no magic and no magic items while still having all of their own magic and magic items).

[Svata]

Thanks for the advice, Tippy.

[graymachine]

I also am not too certain on why you have just a few cleric levels mixed in, although I don't see them on the sheet which may be a product of me not being able to read it right. With so few cleric levels, you would be better served putting those levels to advancing you existing arcane caster levels. If you have your heart set on cleric levels, I would recommend taking a dual casting PrC for your last ten levels; sure you won't be casting ninth level spells in either, but you know you are going Epic, so you can finish up with full casting in both arcane and divine with only a few Epic levels.

A desire for reliable healing is understandable when playing undead, but I would make two points: 1. Any healing you are going to get from so few levels would be easily covered by a magic item or two and 2. As a caster you should really be worried about taking too much damage, but if so, spring for a contingency or two.

Out of curiousity, why are you a Sorceror? Wizard would be a lot better for such a high level caster, but if you are married to Sorceror then I would add my recommendation for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, as it helps make up for the weaknesses of Sorceror.

Seeing your crafting skills, you are buying your items at creation cost under the auspice of creating them yourself? Sure, it'll cost you xp, might even drop a level, but the increased mileage you'll get out of your WBL, which will make up for it.

In general, your attributes and AC seem low. Granted, as your build currently stands, you have a touch MAD, but your CHA should still be much higher. By my rough count your CHA should be 36(18+2 [Lich]+5 [Levels]+5 [Wish/Book]+6[Cloak of CHA]), and you can easily get it higher. Your WIS is fine, unless you plan on using your divine spells for more than healing, but again that could be better handled by magic items. Your normal AC is alright since you generally shouldn't be in combat, although I would be uncomfortable with it being so low; your touch AC is the real problem. I would look for all the bonuses to touch AC I could stack so you can better handle enemy casters an other caster banes.

You might want to look into Improved Turn Resistance if you think you might be encountering a large number of clerics. On that note, you have Rebuke Undead, not Turn Undead how are you Chaotic Good? :smallconfused: aside from that, your feat selection could use some tightening up, starting with Practised Spellcaster, although I'm too tired to think of more suggestions beyond DMM cheese.

Get a Item Familiar, either to shore up you attributes or boost some skills to epic level checks. The obvious thing to do would be to make the Item Familiar your Phylactry so you only have one irreplaceable item to keep track of, but that's up to you. Also, as an aside, look at ACF if they are available, although I can't recall Sorceror's off the top of my head.

Also, if you are wanting Lich more for the undead traits, rather than Lich specifically, I would suggest Necropolitan, since it gets you undead traits for 0 LA.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed that this is a Gestalt; very tired. Still, some or all of this may stil apply.

EDIT EDIT: Think about squeezing in a single level dip of Mindbender for the free Telepathy.

[Svata]

Cleric levels were dropped, see the later post with progression. sheet has been updated for that.

[Zombulian]

I also am not too certain on why you have just a few cleric levels mixed in, although I don't see them on the sheet which may be a product of me not being able to read it right. With so few cleric levels, you would be better served putting those levels to advancing you existing arcane caster levels. If you have your heart set on cleric levels, I would recommend taking a dual casting PrC for your last ten levels; sure you won't be casting ninth level spells in either, but you know you are going Epic, so you can finish up with full casting in both arcane and divine with only a few Epic levels.

A desire for reliable healing is understandable when playing undead, but I would make two points: 1. Any healing you are going to get from so few levels would be easily covered by a magic item or two and 2. As a caster you should really be worried about taking too much damage, but if so, spring for a contingency or two.

Out of curiousity, why are you a Sorceror? Wizard would be a lot better for such a high level caster, but if you are married to Sorceror then I would add my recommendation for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, as it helps make up for the weaknesses of Sorceror.

Seeing your crafting skills, you are buying your items at creation cost under the auspice of creating them yourself? Sure, it'll cost you xp, might even drop a level, but the increased mileage you'll get out of your WBL, which will make up for it.

In general, your attributes and AC seem low. Granted, as your build currently stands, you have a touch MAD, but your CHA should still be much higher. By my rough count your CHA should be 36(18+2 [Lich]+5 [Levels]+5 [Wish/Book]+6[Cloak of CHA]), and you can easily get it higher. Your WIS is fine, unless you plan on using your divine spells for more than healing, but again that could be better handled by magic items. Your normal AC is alright since you generally shouldn't be in combat, although I would be uncomfortable with it being so low; your touch AC is the real problem. I would look for all the bonuses to touch AC I could stack so you can better handle enemy casters an other caster banes.

You might want to look into Improved Turn Resistance if you think you might be encountering a large number of clerics. On that note, you have Rebuke Undead, not Turn Undead how are you Chaotic Good? :smallconfused: aside from that, your feat selection could use some tightening up, starting with Practised Spellcaster, although I'm too tired to think of more suggestions beyond DMM cheese.

Get a Item Familiar, either to shore up you attributes or boost some skills to epic level checks. The obvious thing to do would be to make the Item Familiar your Phylactry so you only have one irreplaceable item to keep track of, but that's up to you. Also, as an aside, look at ACF if they are available, although I can't recall Sorceror's off the top of my head.

Also, if you are wanting Lich more for the undead traits, rather than Lich specifically, I would suggest Necropolitan, since it gets you undead traits for 0 LA.

EDIT: Sorry, I missed that this is a Gestalt; very tired. Still, some or all of this may stil apply.

EDIT EDIT: Think about squeezing in a single level dip of Mindbender for the free Telepathy.

Have you considered that you were so tired because you just WROTE A NOVEL?

[Svata]

Try it now, should have fixed most everything. Redid the item selection and point buy. Here, have a statblock of him. Oughta be enough, and if it isn't, the link inside is to the full sheet.

Irvoi Droset (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=558771)
male CG Elf Lich Sorcerer(20)||Wizard(12)/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil(4)/LA+4, Level 20, Init +6, HP 145/145, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, Speed 40'
AC 37, Touch 22, Flat-footed 31, Fort +13, Ref +21, Will +24, Base Attack Bonus +12/+7/+2, Power Points 0/0
X +2 Explosive Longbow of Wounding (Arrows (60)) +18/+14/+8 (1d8+2d4(explosive, DC 15 half)+2, 19/20 x2)
+2 Longsword +15/+10/+5 (1d8+2+1, 19/20 x2)
Causes Paralysis Natural touch +13/+8/+3 (1d8+5, )
(+5 Armor, +6 Dex, +10 Natural, +5 Deflect, +1 Misc)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 22, Con , Int 32, Wis 14, Cha 32
Condition None

Also, how I am chaotic good is just flavor and character stuff.

[Tvtyrant]

Here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=561715) is that villain app. I know monk SUCKS, but its worth the dip, I think.

It's too bad you cannot make it a psionic Mindflayer and stick levels of Psion on it. It has the same HD and level adjustment but adds 9 levels of psionic powers on top :D It's a banned book, alas.

He has a really high AC, but I am not sure he needs it that high. Spells like Greater Blinking are more effective as a defense, but no reason you cannot stack them. I could make a worse bad guy, but this one seems fine.

Except that Black Blade of Disaster is not very good. The Sphere of Destruction spell is better, and having both is redundant. I would choose something else, probably Prismatic Sphere, Time Stop or Wish. Shapechange and Gate are the best 9ths, but are a little bit overpowered.

Anything I say that is contradicted by Emperor Tippy, you should probably go with Tippy. I personally like Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil as a free defensive option, but he is correct that Craft Contingency effectively replaces it.

[Keld Denar]

Another thing to consider is Divine Oracle. Its fairly easy to get into (1 throw away feat and some skill points), but the abilities are solid and the capstone is Persistant Foresight, essentially. You ALWAYS get to go in the surprise round and are never flat footed, so you can always use one of your wizardly "get out of jail free" buttons.

Also, too bad no Sandstorm. Dry Lich > Lich by several orders of magnitude...

[Svata]

Thanks for all of the help, guys. I've been lurking the forums for a couple weeks, and finally make my first thread, and freaking TIPPY shows up and posts. HOLY CRAP.

[Svata]

Also, I know he's 4 levels higher (and not gestalt), but here's (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=568389) the sort of thing I can make when I have access to every source there is, and only one restriction- 32 point buy, and if not gestalt, single class only. The DM of that game apparently doesn't know there IS an epic level WBL chart in the DMG (page 209 to be specific) and gave us the absolutely BROKEN method of "past level 20, add half of the previous level's WBL to itself". Its a bit ridiculous, really, but its just an arena fight thing. Tell me what you think of him? Also, note that I still have nearly 1.5 million GP, got any suggestions of what to spend it on?

[graymachine]

Have you considered that you were so tired because you just WROTE A NOVEL?

Not really; at 595 words, it's barely a report, let alone anything particularly verbose. That's hardly enough words to make some bare-bones points.

[graymachine]

Try it now, should have fixed most everything. Redid the item selection and point buy. Here, have a statblock of him. Oughta be enough, and if it isn't, the link inside is to the full sheet.

Irvoi Droset (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=558771)
male CG Elf Lich Sorcerer(20)||Wizard(12)/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil(4)/LA+4, Level 20, Init +6, HP 145/145, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, Speed 40'
AC 37, Touch 22, Flat-footed 31, Fort +13, Ref +21, Will +24, Base Attack Bonus +12/+7/+2, Power Points 0/0
X +2 Explosive Longbow of Wounding (Arrows (60)) +18/+14/+8 (1d8+2d4(explosive, DC 15 half)+2, 19/20 x2)
+2 Longsword +15/+10/+5 (1d8+2+1, 19/20 x2)
Causes Paralysis Natural touch +13/+8/+3 (1d8+5, )
(+5 Armor, +6 Dex, +10 Natural, +5 Deflect, +1 Misc)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 22, Con , Int 32, Wis 14, Cha 32
Condition None

Also, how I am chaotic good is just flavor and character stuff.

Well, Liches are listed here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm) as "Any Evil", which means, by RAW, you have to be Evil. I would also suspect that you have to be Evil by RAI as well, considering that your character, in theory, chose to pollute his mind and body with Negative Energy to make himself into a twisted mockery of life in order to cheat death. Still, I could see some arguments otherwise, so I suppose it is the DM's call.

You might want to get your initiative higher, if you can manage it; you're in the level range where you're essentially playing tag with rockets. Whomever goes first typically wins.

What does your Spellcraft look like? With a Spellcraft of 34, you might want to look at boosting that in preparation for getting Epic Magic.

At 886 years old, did to make sure to take the mental attribute bonuses? I can't tell without the breakdown.

[Zombulian]

Not really; at 595 words, it's barely a report, let alone anything particularly verbose. That's hardly enough words to make some bare-bones points.

Yeah. I'm on a mobile device, so it more like, if I have to swipe my finger more that twice, that's a lot.

[graymachine]

Yeah. I'm on a mobile device, so it more like, if I have to swipe my finger more that twice, that's a lot.

I'm on a mobile device too. :smallbiggrin:

[Svata]

Most of the time was spent as a lich. He was only 168 when he became one.

[graymachine]

Most of the time was spent as a lich. He was only 168 when he became one.

That's fine; the age bonus rules don't have anything to do with type, merely age and your character is well past the venerable category for elves. So, go ahead and add on those +3s.

[Svata]

Would I need to subtract physical scores or is that stopped by being undead?

[graymachine]

Would I need to subtract physical scores or is that stopped by being undead?

Typically, as I understand it, no; you stop physically aging after lichdom, which is what the penalties come from. Even if your DM wants you to take the physical penalties, it would be well worth it.