Death Master vs Dread Necro: On BAB

[CyberThread]

Is a death master ever worth doing instead of a dread necro based on a BAB, not on spell selection or such just BAB , any builds you think would benefit on that basis.

[thethird]

Medium BAB > Low BAB

What's the point?

[CyberThread]

The point is less not that, but what builds can be done that you could not with a dread necro, due to it being semi good bab instead of weak bab. From what I am seeing, you could even to abjur champion .

[The Viscount]

When you cast 9th level spells, BA matters little.

[CyberThread]

Well when the specific topic is BAB , then yes it does :D, because both sides cast 9th level, so you have to look at other functions. like maybe gish PRC's that need bab.

[Vaz]

Medium BAB > Low BAB

What's the point?

At Will Touch Attacks > +1 to Hit at levels 1-5.

Arcane Disciple Competition for Divine Power (And Righteous Might), Job Done.

[Just to Browse]

On the merit of BAB alone, the only thing going for the Death Master is early qualification for feats (combat feats? AHAHAHA oh silly me) or PrCs (valid idea). Among PrCs, the only ones that are really going to put an emphasis on BAB are gishes, so we're basically looking for gishes that allow necromancers into them, preferrably ones with low spell requirements.

I looked up all the PrC's in The Gish Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786.0) and the only thing I found was Swiftblade (I don't have the Death Master spell list on hand, don't know if it casts haste) and the Rage Mage.

So basically it doesn't matter.

[Jeff the Green]

Arcane Disciple Competition for Divine Power (And Righteous Might), Job Done.

Which an illumian DN can DMM.

[CyberThread]

On the merit of BAB alone, the only thing going for the Death Master is early qualification for feats (combat feats? AHAHAHA oh silly me) or PrCs (valid idea). Among PrCs, the only ones that are really going to put an emphasis on BAB are gishes, so we're basically looking for gishes that allow necromancers into them, preferrably ones with low spell requirements.

I looked up all the PrC's in The Gish Handbook (/boards/index.php?topic=8786.0) and the only thing I found was Swiftblade (I don't have the Death Master spell list on hand, don't know if it casts haste) and the Rage Mage.

So basically it doesn't matter.


Okay did some research to help even things out in understanding. They do get scimitar as a prof, so they get a martial weapon, although so deos dread.


Death gets 2/3 bab while dread get 1/3 bab

Death gets d8 dread gets d6

Death is INT while Dread is CHA casting

While Death is a much more varied casting selection, Dread is more up to date, and a few more powerful choices in the Necro school.

Familers/companions are equal depending on what flavor you want

Death gets 2nd level spells at level 3rd while Dread gets them at 4th


as far as that handbook


They qualify for ...Abjurant Champion....at 7th while a dread is 10th


And although not meaning much, due to spell variety and better bab , they do a better job with the evil adaption on the jade phoenix mage.

[Just to Browse]

Well you said on merits of BAB alone. If you compare the two classes the Death Master is ahead by a long stretch. The automatic companion, access to create undead and animate dead 5 levels before the dread necro, scarier spell selection, better hit die, better casting stat, and avoids arcane spell failure.

[Vaz]

Throw on Tomb Tainted Soul, however, an a DN becomes a half-way decent Tank with At Will Healing. Or a Necropolitan.

Without Arcane Disciple, a DN cannot get Haste; and IIRC, if it goes for Haste, it is therefore unable to select a domain through which it can get Divine Might. Still a Swiftblade is not a brilliant option for a DN.

Gish Necromancer;

Necropolitan Dread Necromancer 8/Crusader 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 10

Catalogues of Enlightenment to get another Turn pool, Arcane Disciple for Divine Might. Use Arcane Wrath in conjunction with a DN's huge number of Spells per Day. Empowering Strike with an Empowered Shivering Touch (from Advanced Learning).

[CyberThread]

Hmm not sure if to fond of that....


Death Master/ swordsage / jade mage

[The Viscount]

Death Master also has the advantage of being less buggy. DN's dysfunctions are rather prominent and numerous. Weird charnel touch rules, fear aura that must be houseruled, missing magic circles that may or may not be intentional, only possible corrupt spell access, death ward twice, a negative energy bust that affects the dread necromancer itself, and a capstone that has spawned many debates, not to mention the only incorporeal familiar, with no addressing of how that affects familiar effects.

Death Master, on the other hand, only has a problem with using some of its abilities on its undead minion.

[CyberThread]

Never heard of those issues before Vis


on another note


what are the issues with the minion?

[CyberThread]

*edited side note* Maybe something to notice, as most of death masters/nercos abilities are debuffs or summons, if you were going to do a gish, a one level dip or more into sandshaper, may be worth it, as it gives you access to a bunch of buff spells not on either list.



**ggrrrr, this was suppose to be an edited bit, not a double post, can a mod merge please***

[Rosstin]

Go straight cleric, they make the best necros in my opinion. Thematically as well as powerwise.

[CyberThread]

except well, that is not what we are talking about today. That is like going into a fighter thread and say, go tome of battle or wizard.