Supernatural: Epic Level Handbook [Spoilers]

[Silkspinner]

So just watched the season finale of Season 8...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvjDHq0ugM

...and I haven't had chills from a scene like that since Castiel first made his appearance, walking through all the demon traps to tell Dean that God had a plan for him.

It's also amazing how much you suddenly begin to like Crowley after his soul is purified. The deal for his soul that originally put him in hell (a few more inches below the belt), his trying to bring demonkind together, his wish to have everyone worship... all because, below it all, he wanted to be loved. I've always wondered how a simple peasant could have had the drive to become the King of Hell, having seemed to have no real ambition in life... that right there could do it.

The writers outdid themselves this season... except for that episode where they rescued Bobby. Other than that? Damn.

[Olinser]

I haven't actually watched season 8 yet, season 7 pissed me off so much. I LOVED the earlier seasons, but season 7 was just TERRIBLE.

The Leviathans were built up as these memetic badasses from the dawn of time so terrible that they were kicked off the planet.

And yet.... all they do is toss people around and stand around getting beheaded. Not once do they actually use their power to their advantage. The whole thing with Sam & Dean murdering dopplegangers was GREAT - and then they let it die down because.... well nobody really said it. How about the FBI leviathan just tell headquarters, "Hey, these are NOT the guys we're looking for. Keep the nation-wide manhunt going. Offer a $10 million reward for the first person to give us information on them."

And the resolution to the season was even dumber. Ok, Roman dug up an instruction manual on how to build the only weapon that can kill him. Pretty stupid, but the tablet has a lot more on it than just that, so we'll handwave that with he hoped to gain a lot more. So they kill Roman. And the Leviathans are no longer a threat because... they're really, really sad Roman is dead?

The plan was complete. The pacifier spread throughout the population. They literally had to walk outside and start eating. Crowley claimed he had people outside to deal with them... but if it were that easy why the hell didn't he do that in the FIRST place?

[Helanna]

I'm glad someone made a thread. I only just started watching Supernatural a couple months ago, so this was my first time watching a finale and not having the next season immediately available. Which really sucks, because season 9 is shaping up to be very, very interesting (and has Cas as a regular character, which I'm looking forward to a lot).

And while I still don't find Crowley's character particularly sympathetic, holy crap did Mark Sheppard outdo himself in this episode. His acting throughout the whole thing was just fantastic.

Although it brings up the question, what's going to happen to Crowley now? Will he revert to being evil again, or is he going to stay almost-cured? Because I'm amused by the idea of almost-cured Crowley just hanging around while everyone tries to figure out what to do with him.


I haven't actually watched season 8 yet, season 7 pissed me off so much. I LOVED the earlier seasons, but season 7 was just TERRIBLE.

I wasn't a fan of season 7 either, but season 8 was a big improvement in my opinion. If you get a chance, I'd give it a watch.

[kitep]

I did love that final scene. Epic indeed.

But I'm a little disappointed in the boys.
To get so close to slamming Hell shut, and then to stop. It's not like either brother stays dead, but now Sam will stay sick. And every time a demon hurts someone, I'll be thinking "they could have stopped that".

[Grinner]

I don't know. Season 7 felt a bit rushed. The writers had spent so long developing the plot and introducing the various factions which would eventually collide in Season 5. Anyway, they just finished what could've been a dramatic conclusion to the series, but the fans wanted more. So, they tried stuffing another plot arc in over the next two seasons.

Didn't follow Season 8, though.

[lunar2]

seriously. angels can resurrect people. why not have sam finish the ritual, and then castiel just brings him back? and after the first two trials, they didn't realize that finishing the 3rd would kill him?

that's some serious PIS right there. also, c'mon guys, the finale just came out yesterday. spoilers are appropriate.

[kitep]

seriously. angels can resurrect people. why not have sam finish the ritual, and then castiel just brings him back? and after the first two trials, they didn't realize that finishing the 3rd would kill him?

No, they thought finishing the trials would cure him.
Also, Castiel is/was being hunted by the forces of Heaven. I'm not sure he could just sneak into Heaven and grab Sam and bring him back. Though come to think of it, didn't he do something like that for both boys in a previous season?

[Anteros]

Probably the most unheroic thing ever. You get a chance to shut the gates of hell which presumably not only locks out the demons who are responsible for a ridiculous number of deaths, but also stops people from going to hell when they die. But you don't do it because you might die and go to a Heaven which you know for a fact exists because you've been there? This isn't even factoring in the fact that they have a best bud who can raise the dead. How ridiculously selfish can you be??

Who wrote this stuff? :smallsigh:

[lunar2]

I haven't actually watched season 8 yet, season 7 pissed me off so much. I LOVED the earlier seasons, but season 7 was just TERRIBLE.

The Leviathans were built up as these memetic badasses from the dawn of time so terrible that they were kicked off the planet.

And yet.... all they do is toss people around and stand around getting beheaded. Not once do they actually use their power to their advantage. The whole thing with Sam & Dean murdering dopplegangers was GREAT - and then they let it die down because.... well nobody really said it. How about the FBI leviathan just tell headquarters, "Hey, these are NOT the guys we're looking for. Keep the nation-wide manhunt going. Offer a $10 million reward for the first person to give us information on them."

And the resolution to the season was even dumber. Ok, Roman dug up an instruction manual on how to build the only weapon that can kill him. Pretty stupid, but the tablet has a lot more on it than just that, so we'll handwave that with he hoped to gain a lot more. So they kill Roman. And the Leviathans are no longer a threat because... they're really, really sad Roman is dead?

The plan was complete. The pacifier spread throughout the population. They literally had to walk outside and start eating. Crowley claimed he had people outside to deal with them... but if it were that easy why the hell didn't he do that in the FIRST place?

they actually mentioned why for both your complaints.

for the manhunt. sam and dean had already died twice, as far as the FBI knew. having them miraculously still be alive for again would have strained credulity.

for the leviathans. only **** roman was powerful and charismatic enough to unite the leviathans into any semblance of a team. without him, they are just really tough monsters, as they break off into singles and small groups competing with each other out of pride and arrogance.

[Olinser]

they actually mentioned why for both your complaints.

for the manhunt. sam and dean had already died twice, as far as the FBI knew. having them miraculously still be alive for again would have strained credulity.

for the leviathans. only **** roman was powerful and charismatic enough to unite the leviathans into any semblance of a team. without him, they are just really tough monsters, as they break off into singles and small groups competing with each other out of pride and arrogance.

The fact that they already faked their deaths once would make it MORE likely the FBI would think they were still alive, not less. Somebody got away by faking their deaths once, you are going to make damn sure they're actually dead this time.

As for Roman... yeah, that was a weak justification when they said it in-universe, and it's still a pathetically weak justification. The plan was complete. Nothing had to be held together. The population was pacified. All they had to do was wander around eating. Roman dying doesn't magically make them suddenly vulnerable to Crowley's demons.

[lunar2]

The fact that they already faked their deaths once would make it MORE likely the FBI would think they were still alive, not less. Somebody got away by faking their deaths once, you are going to make damn sure they're actually dead this time.

As for Roman... yeah, that was a weak justification when they said it in-universe, and it's still a pathetically weak justification. The plan was complete. Nothing had to be held together. The population was pacified. All they had to do was wander around eating. Roman dying doesn't magically make them suddenly vulnerable to Crowley's demons.

how many times can Sam and Dean die before the FBI starts getting suspicious? Roman decided twice was enough.

as for the second, yes, the plan was complete, but the leviathans still have one fatal flaw. they are arrogant and prideful beyond measure. without Roman there to keep them in line, they would fracture into small groups with a lot of conflict among themselves. in this state, the demons could pick them off one by one, whereas under Roman, they were too organized for Crowley to move against effectively. and even though the humans were pacified for the time being, you have to keep giving them the chemicals to keep them pacified, so the demons, who aren't pacified, can still disrupt operations. so given the nature of the leviathans, the plan to kill Roman and let Crowley do clean up would actually work out pretty well.

as far as the leviathans themselves go? they were way overrated. they're essentially a vampire/shifter hybrid, which certainly makes them dangerous, but not even as much so as Eve or a god.

[Olinser]

how many times can Sam and Dean die before the FBI starts getting suspicious? Roman decided twice was enough.

as for the second, yes, the plan was complete, but the leviathans still have one fatal flaw. they are arrogant and prideful beyond measure. without Roman there to keep them in line, they would fracture into small groups with a lot of conflict among themselves. in this state, the demons could pick them off one by one, whereas under Roman, they were too organized for Crowley to move against effectively. and even though the humans were pacified for the time being, you have to keep giving them the chemicals to keep them pacified, so the demons, who aren't pacified, can still disrupt operations. so given the nature of the leviathans, the plan to kill Roman and let Crowley do clean up would actually work out pretty well.

as far as the leviathans themselves go? they were way overrated. they're essentially a vampire/shifter hybrid, which certainly makes them dangerous, but not even as much so as Eve or a god.

So you think them successfully faking their deaths once... somehow makes it LESS likely they'll fake their deaths again? That doesn't even make sense.

"Gosh man, it worked so well last time I guess we'll just never try it again!"

[lunar2]

no, but Roman decided using the same tactic over and over again wasn't going to work. could he have safely done it once or twice more? yes, probably. was he perfectly justified in not trying the same tactic a 3rd time (remember shapeshifters have pulled that one before, and he knows it)? again, yes.

[Deathslayer7]

So you think them successfully faking their deaths once... somehow makes it LESS likely they'll fake their deaths again? That doesn't even make sense.

"Gosh man, it worked so well last time I guess we'll just never try it again!"

faking deaths once might seem suspicious, but remember, Sam and Dean died twice publicly. To say that for a third time that Sam and Dean are alive just doesnt make sense.

Especially after they identified Dean by dental records.

[Olinser]

faking deaths once might seem suspicious, but remember, Sam and Dean died twice publicly. To say that for a third time that Sam and Dean are alive just doesnt make sense.

Especially after they identified Dean by dental records.

I'm glad you aren't actually on a police force.

So in the eyes of the FBI, Dean has now managed to successfully fake his death TWICE - once by somehow producing a corpse that totally fooled every test they had into thinking it was his body.

Now they have a third body... that is conveniently (for Dean), missing a head, and all the identifying marks that go with it.

Well golly guys, I'm sure he isn't doing exactly what he did the last two times. No need to verify anything, I'm sure it's him this time!

Faking your death (TWICE!) makes it infinitely more likely that any corpse produced will be treated with EXTREME skepticism.

Hell, all they really would have needed to do would have been to produce another Dean leviathan and have him go rob another bank. There were at least a couple more Leviathan that had contact with both boys prior to that point.

Or just provide a photo or video of the real Dean walking around. If he's still alive, then obviously the body is a fake.

[Dire Lemming]

Seven 7 was done terribly, but not to the extent of Season 6 (re: Eve).

Season 8 was somewhat nonsensical, but the storyline itself wasn't unpropitious, and the finale certainly opened quite a few possibilities, even if the path of most restrictions will be chosen.
Come Metatron: "Angels... they're falling."
It is worth watching, especially if you've watched every other season of Supernatural.

However, it is unfortunately unlikely that Season 5 will ever be matched, let alone surpassed.

[ArlEammon]

There's just too much insanity in Supernatural for me to like it.

I liked Hammer of the Gods. :/
I never watched Supernatural again though.

[Anteros]

Well...its supposed to be silly and over the top. They jumped the shark at least 3 seasons ago after the Lucifer arc and the writers know it.

Honestly the series should have ended at that point, but I still enjoy the show in a mindless turn your brain off kind of way.

[Arcane_Secrets]

as far as the leviathans themselves go? they were way overrated. they're essentially a vampire/shifter hybrid, which certainly makes them dangerous, but not even as much so as Eve or a god.

Being nigh-unkillable is a serious benefit for them. All the borax did was temporarily incapacitate/melt them like acid would to normal flesh, and decapitation wasn't really death as much as it was a very long term inconvenience. Vampires and shifters in comparison had some real disadvantages. They can also one-shot angels (which happened in the episode where Roman's leviathans stole kevin away from the angels that were guarding him).

[lunar2]

well, yeah. but beheading them is kind of like trapping the serial killer ghost in secret room, or burying the immortal guy. it may not be permanent, but it's going to stop them long enough you won't have to worry about them again.

and i'd love to see a leviathan try that against an archangel. too bad there are no more archangels, but i don't think the leviathans would be nearly as effective, anyway. archangels are much tougher than normal angels. michael even survived being doused in burning holy oil.

[Anteros]

Given what we've seen on screen....they should have been curb stomped by even the weakest of the angels. It was pretty much pure plot induced stupidity that let them kill any. (Sure...I can move faster than you can possibly comprehend...but I think I'll stand still and let you stab me.)

Of course you can say the same thing for any time anyone fights an angel in that setting.