Wu Jen Spell selection

[nighplasmage]

Some of the spells seem twisted

Q. Why would anyone prepare Rain of Needles 2nd level when 1st level Hail of Stones deals the same damage, is AoE, and does not require a ranged(not ranged touch) attack, and has the same cap at caster level 5 (5d4).


Up to 5 1d4's spread among 5 targets or 5d4 spread among 4 targets with reflex save ~= to your ranged attack.

[Zombulian]

Some of the spells seem twisted

Q. Why would anyone prepare Rain of Needles 2nd level when 1st level Hail of Stones deals the same damage, is AoE, and does not require a ranged(not ranged touch) attack, and has the same cap at caster level 5 (5d4).


Up to 5 1d4's spread among 5 targets or 5d4 spread among 4 targets with reflex save ~= to your ranged attack.

Maybe you have a Stupidly high dex. Maybe you are a Metal Wu Jen who plans on using Iron Scarf but doesn't have it yet.

[CyberThread]

Well two things I can think of....

Hail of stone cost 5 gp every time to cast.... which is expensive at that level, while rain of needles does not....


So you are sort of "paying" for the advatage, which at low levels 5 gp is a very much a powerful balancing tool.


Also rain of needles is 1 standard action, hail of stones is one full action to cast.

[Urpriest]

Targeting capacity is one thing to consider, since your enemies might not be grouped. Also, Standard versus Full-round action. That said, I agree it looks rather underpowered.

[CyberThread]

why is your ....thing all messed up urpriest. It is all green

[Urpriest]

why is your ....thing all messed up urpriest. It is all green

It's Exalted Week, so Urpriest was Exalted as a Malefactor by the Endless Desert of Cecelyne. Now he can cast Blasphemy in a Blasphemy Effect!

[Zombulian]

It's Exalted Week, so Urpriest was Exalted as a Malefactor by the Endless Desert of Cecelyne. Now he can cast Blasphemy in a Blasphemy Effect!

Wot. Uhhhh

[CyberThread]

anyways... yes i think the 5gp is the reason why.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yeah, I analyzed all of the "unique" Wu Jen spells in my Wu Jen Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13419452&postcount=6). Rain of Needles was one of the... less impressive ones.

Storm of Needles (4th level, from CM) is everything that Rain of Needles wanted to be.

[Chronos]

Does Hail of Stones allow a reflex save for half, like most area damage spells? You pretty quickly get to a point where ranged touch attacks are more reliable than reflex saves.

[dysprosium]

Another thing to consider is that you can possibly score criticals with ranged touch attacks which could double the damage scored.

I'm assuming here that the needle crits on 20 for x2.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Does Hail of Stones allow a reflex save for half, like most area damage spells? You pretty quickly get to a point where ranged touch attacks are more reliable than reflex saves.
No. Hail of stone is one of those really good blasting spells that doesn't allow much of any sort of defense.

Or it is if you can get the damage cap up/stick some rider effects onto it, anyway.

[JellyPooga]

One thing I noticed about a lot of Wu Jen spells is comparative to the Wiz/Sorc list, many of their spells are fixed range or duration, making them ineligible for certain metamagic. Not a massive downer, as metamagic is generally kinda useless, but if you are looking at a metamagic specialist, then the Wu Jen spell list does you no favours.

[CyberThread]

I keep feeling as if, I am overvaluing the 5gp it cost to cast the spell or everyons ignoring the fact.

[WhatBigTeeth]

I keep feeling as if, I am overvaluing the 5gp it cost to cast the spell or everyons ignoring the fact.
Under the normal "4 CR-appropriate encounters per day" assumptions, 5gp is 1/60 of a level 1 character's daily income. It's little more than fluff.

[Zaq]

The 5 gp isn't the problem. The one-round casting time is. Until you have some good "NO!" buttons in place, it's just making you a big old target, and it's easy to interrupt. It's still a great spell, but the casting time hurts.