Question for the playground

[dantiesilva]

I am about to become a 15th level DMM cleric and keep running into the problem of GDM. So I came to the conclusion that walking around in an AMF with the feat sculpt spell to keep me safe at all times would be a great idea. But remembering instantaneous effects still happen I was wondering if GDM would just pierce straight through it and still hit me. Thus making AMF useless. Is there anyone who can help me with this matter as my GM is not exactly sure himself, thank you.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you leave a hole in your antimagic field for you to stand in, then it is not protecting you.

As for the rule about instantaneous spells and antimagic field, it is specific to instantaneous conjurations.

[mattie_p]

If you are constantly running into GDM and you are a DMM cleric, you should have turns to burn on Divine Spell Power, also powered by turns.

Also, how do your enemies always know you have multiple buffs up? Are they wasting a turn on detect magic? At level 15, all of you should glow like christmas trees - why are they targeting you? If they are scrying you - get some mind blank.

[avr]

Some spells may be blocked by walking around in a donut shaped AMF, Dispel Magic isn't one of them. The dispel doesn't necessarily have to streak out from the casters hand.

Mattie_p - by 15th level you probably have a reputation and possibly some recurring enemies, targeting you with (Greater) Dispel Magic may well be quite fair.

[dantiesilva]

I walk around as a hound Acheron for one. The person in question is like Wesker from resident evil and has been studying us finds me the biggest threat as she is immune to magic so wants to eliminate him from the equation by getting rid of his spells that make him powerful. And it only leaves a small enough hole for you to cast in. It fits around you and whoever else you wish up to a 20ft hole.

[mattie_p]

Mattie_p - by 15th level you probably have a reputation and possibly some recurring enemies, targeting you with (Greater) Dispel Magic may well be quite fair.

Again, the pc is probably wandering around with a group of 15s. Why is the cleric targeted all the time? Also, who are all these foes with GDM that you never heard of? Why are they all coming out of the woodwork for you, and not for each other? Why have you never heard of them?

Also, with mind blank up (level 8 spell, should very doable for a level 15 character) they won't recognize you in your hat of disguise. Unless they have true seeing, in which case you won't be seen by the spell at all.

Also, as soon as you roll initiative ready an action to counterspell. Prepare GDM yourself a time or two.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Bed of Karma, ring of enduring arcana, Ankh of Ascension, there are a lot of ways to boost you CL accesible ay level 15.

[nedz]

If you are constantly running into GDM and you are a DMM cleric, you should have turns to burn on Divine Spell Power, also powered by turns.

Also, how do your enemies always know you have multiple buffs up? Are they wasting a turn on detect magic? At level 15, all of you should glow like christmas trees - why are they targeting you? If they are scrying you - get some mind blank.

It's the standard anti-cleric tactic. At least if I, as a DM, throw a cleric at my group they will normally start by dispelling. The counter tactic to not look like a cleric is tricky since True Seeing is common at Level 15.

DMM Quicken, instead of DMM Persist, may work — but it may be too late for you to buy the feats.

[dantiesilva]

It is not all the time I run into the problem, just on the bosses. We run into a lot of spell thiefs though, but they are part of this arc. as such I have been using Mantle of good (coupled with Good domain) To stay safe for the most part from most spells thrown at me. Though not all I must admit. As for mind blank I will keep that in mind, though in a few levels immune to any type of enchantment, throw on slippery mind and well yea. My character is almost impossible to touch with any of his save except for reflex which is at 16 with no magic items boosting them.

[Aracor]

At least for the first one, having a ring of counterspells loaded with GDM is a great way to make them waste an action.

[dantiesilva]

I never thought of that to be honest and for the simple price of 4k...That is an amazing ring. Thank you all so much.

[Keld Denar]

I'd just amp your CL. With a Bead of Karma and a Ring of Enduring Arcana, you are looking at a +8 vs dispel. That means you are CL 23, or a DC 34 CL check to dispel. A CL20 GDM has to roll a 14+ to dispel your 15th level guy, and a 15th level caster has to roll a 19+, assuming no Inquisition domain or Dispelling Cord (or both). Anhk of Assention bumps it even more, as would an Orange IWIN stone and a Candle of Meditation for prepping for really hard fights. Then there is also having a bard play a Hymn of Praise during your buff routine (3rd level bard spell, SpC) for another +2 CL. You could possibly be sitting on an effective CL vs dispels of 35 or higher, resulting in a DC 46+ CL check, nigh impossible even for the most dedicated dispeller.

BTW, one thing that WON'T work is Divine Spellpower. You can only use 1 Divine feat at a time. DMM is a Divine feat, as is Divine Spellpower, so they are incompatible with one another.

[dantiesilva]

Well most of the bosses are at least 3 levels higher then us so bumping up Caster level as dose sound like a sound idea.

[Telonius]

Be glad you're only getting GDM, and not spammed with Reciprocal Gyre...

[Keld Denar]

RG is a Will negates. Cakewalk for a properly built and buffed cleric.

I'd be more worried about Mages Disjunction. All the CL bumps in the world won't save you from that day-wrecker...

[dantiesilva]

If its not in SpC then I have no worries as the DM stays to a few books, and we are allowed to the same, though I suspect he will be pulling out a few of the tricks I used last battle against his caster. Sure they failed, but if she would have missed her save each turn she would keep on losing spells. Funny how a spell targets saves on a spellcaster that they naturally should have high.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Per the Rules Compendium, AMF does not block line of effect for spells. That means if someone casts a spell at a target on the opposite side of an AMF (or a target standing in a hole in the middle of one), then the spell still hits the target as though the AMF wasn't even there.

You could get the feat Initiate of Mystra (PGtF) and just skip Sculpt Spell, and that actually would block Dispel Magic and similar because you're actually in the AMF and not in an open space surrounded by AMF.

Get Armor Spikes and/or Gauntlets enchanted with +1 Spellblade (PGtF) for Greater Dispel Magic and other targeted spells you would like to avoid. Keep in mind it doesn't block effects (rays, orbs, etc.), only spells that declare a target without making an attack roll.

[dantiesilva]

We are allowed Core, Complete, and SpC. Sculpt spell is my only option. And how dose a spell pass threw 30ft of AMF to hit a target standing inside it when the caster casting it will more then liky be inside it as well?

Sculpt spell only frees up one small 5ft square, and a total of 4 of them. It dose not raise all the way to the ceiling just around the person who is INSIDE the AMF so how can a spell pass through it to hit them?

[Kristinn]

Having a ring of counterspell is the obvious solution. Put GDM into it and the first casting targeting you will fail automatically.

Prepare GDM one or two times yourself to recharge the ring after fights where they tried to dispel you. If you get targeted many times each fight you could even buy multiple rings. Taking off the used up ring and putting on a charged ring is a move action, I would say.

[dantiesilva]

I think that is the safest bet as it keeps me alive the longest and makes me not need to rely on a AMF. Thank you all very much.

[kardar233]

We are allowed Core, Complete, and SpC. Sculpt spell is my only option. And how dose a spell pass threw 30ft of AMF to hit a target standing inside it when the caster casting it will more then liky be inside it as well?

Sculpt spell only frees up one small 5ft square, and a total of 4 of them. It dose not raise all the way to the ceiling just around the person who is INSIDE the AMF so how can a spell pass through it to hit them?

AMF simply stops any magical effect from taking place within its field. However, it doesn't block Line of Effect.

Imagine you had a Runescarred Berserker in your front line with an AMF up. You're standing behind him, outside the AMF but in a way that it's between you and the enemy caster. That doesn't block spells coming at you; the only place where it's "spells don't happen" is the AMF itself.

If you're using Sculpt Spell+AMF it'll stop some things, but effect that target you directly can hit you normally as you're not actually within the AMF's field.

Clear enough?

[Elric VIII]

At 15th level take the Divine Defiance feat (FCII). This lets you burn a turn/rebuke attempt as an immediate action to counterspell (you still need the DM, GDM, or spell in question prepared).

Also, grab some armor spikes with Spellblade (PGtF) for the most common dispel magic effects.

Then there's the Ring of Spell Battle which will let you redirect a spell 1/day.

[KillianHawkeye]

If you're using Sculpt Spell+AMF it'll stop some things, but effect that target you directly can hit you normally as you're not actually within the AMF's field.

I'm pretty sure it won't stop ANYTHING. Even area spells will be able to exist within the hole in the middle of the field. They don't have to target him specifically. Summoned monsters are the only thing I can think of that will be stopped.

Basically, if you are not suffering the effects of antimagic field, then IT IS NOT PROTECTING YOU.

[kardar233]

I'm pretty sure it won't stop ANYTHING. Even area spells will be able to exist within the hole in the middle of the field. They don't have to target him specifically. Summoned monsters are the only thing I can think of that will be stopped.

Basically, if you are not suffering the effects of antimagic field, then IT IS NOT PROTECTING YOU.

Yeah, it's not helpful against spellcasters, but it'll cripple enemy melee. They can't attack you without losing the benefits of all their magical gear, meaning that most can't even attack you if you're flying, as their flight item/spell will wink out when they get in range.

[KillianHawkeye]

most can't even attack you if you're flying, as their flight item/spell will wink out when they get in range.

Okay, that's pretty funny, I'll give you that. :smallamused:

[nedz]

Yeah, it's not helpful against spellcasters, but it'll cripple enemy melee. They can't attack you without losing the benefits of all their magical gear, meaning that most can't even attack you if you're flying, as their flight item/spell will wink out when they get in range.

Unless they're grapplers.

So, now you've worked out how to counter GDM, how are you going to counter Disjunction ? There are a number of ways discussed in a recent thread.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

We are allowed Core, Complete, and SpC. Sculpt spell is my only option. And how dose a spell pass threw 30ft of AMF to hit a target standing inside it when the caster casting it will more then liky be inside it as well?

Sculpt spell only frees up one small 5ft square, and a total of 4 of them. It dose not raise all the way to the ceiling just around the person who is INSIDE the AMF so how can a spell pass through it to hit them?

AMF stops spells from happening within its effect. You are not within its effect, so a spell targeting you is not trying happen within its effect, so it goes off normally.

You're probably better off with Exraordinary Spell Aim from Complete Adventurer, which simply excludes individual characters instead of entire squares. The excluded characters can move about in the AMF and the area of exclusion moves with them, and they can even leave and reenter it and still be excluded from its effect. The main difference is that when a magical arrow is fired at you using Sculpt Spell, it enters the non-AMF square you're standing in before striking you and it's still a magical arrow. With ESA it's still in the AMF when it hits you and its magical properties are still suppressed. The same goes for any melee weapons that strike you, and even if something tries to grapple you or squeeze into your space they'll still be in the AMF's effect. Also, put Widen Spell on that AMF if possible.

[dantiesilva]

Again thank you all will take ESA instead.

[A_S]

For specifically blocking individual spells that are giving you trouble, I recommend Spellblade weapons (PGtF). Preferably on gauntlets, armor spikes, etc.

*edit* Derp, already suggested. L2read.

[dantiesilva]

As I have said I have very few sources that not being one of them

[Xervous]

do you have access to the MiC (usually gets paired in with SpC but i doubt that's the case here)

if so, ring of spellbattle for when scarier dispel-like stuff starts flying your way. 1/day, redirect a spell you ID, cast within 60 ft to an appropriate target (when cast). it also lets you detect spellcasting without LoS or LoE.

[dantiesilva]

It goes by case to case on MiC. I try to stay in allowed books though so our DM who is very lenient dose not get to mad. After all he has people requesting out of book sources everyday so I try to be the good one...TRY being the key word.