Deities with War and Reach Weapons

[GilesTheCleric]

So I've done quite a bit of research and so far have only found three (!) one (!!!) deities that have both the war domain and a reach weapon as their favoured weapon. So far I've looked through the majority of core, FR (are there really no deities in OA/UE?), Greyhawk, Eberron, crystalkeep, and another reference (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/FavoredWeapons.html).

They are:

Deities, Pantheons



Name
Weapon
Domains
Source

Olympic Pantheon
Spear (any type)
Air, Animal, Artifice, Earth, Evil, Fire, Good, Healing, Knowledge, Law, Luck, Madness, Magic, Nobility, Plant, Protection, Strength, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War, Water, Weather
DaD 101

Wastri
Glaive or Guisarme
Animal, Law, Pride, Purification, War
LGG 187, Dra323p65, CoD 123, LGD

Gruumsh (3.0)
Longspear
Cavern, Chaos, Evil, Hatred, Orc, Strength
FaP 148

Vathris
Longspear
Destruction, Law, War
LGD



Planar Touchstone > Catalogues of Enlightenment (War)


[tr]
Deity
Weapon
Domains
Source

Angharradh
long/shortspear
Chaos, Elf, Good, Knowledge, Plant, Protection, Renewal
FaP 125

Beshaba/Bashaba
scourge
Chaos, Envy, Evil, Fate, Luck, Trickery, Wrath, Lust
Fap, Drag323 p65, Dun113 p43

Blibdoolpoolp
pincer staff (e)/slam/shortspear
Blackwater, Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Madness, Mysticism, Orcale, Water, Watery Death
LGD, Und 65, CoD 124, Sw 49, Drag342 p74

Ilsenine
unarmed strike/tentacle
Evil, Knowledge, Law, Magic, Mind, Slime, Tyranny
LoM 177, CoD 124, Drag342 p74

Kossuth
spiked chain
Destruction, Fire, Renewal, Suffering, Wrath
FaP 35, Drag323 p65

Lolth
whip (e)
Chaos, Destruction, Domination, Evil, Oracle, Pestilence, Trickery
LGD

Loviatar/Laviatar
scourge
Evil, Law, Retribution, Strength, Suffering
FaP 100

Set
longspear/halfspear/shortspear
Air, Chaos, Darkness, Destruction, Envy, Evil, Hatred, Law, Magic, Pride, Scalykind, Strength, Wrath
DaD 154, FaP 147, Ss 46, Drag323 p65

Sharindlar
whip
Chaos, Charm, Dwarf, Good, Healing, Lust, Moon, Sloth
FaP 122, Drag323 p65

Sune
whip
Chaos, Charm, Good, Lust, Pride, Protection
FaP 65, Drag323 p65

Zoser
spiked chain
Air, Chaos, Destruction, Sand, Summer
Ss 46

Khurgorbaeyag
whip (e)
Domination, Evil, Inquisition, Law, Protection, Tyranny
LGD

Myrhiss
shortbow/whip (e)
Community, Domination, Good, Healing, Protection
LGD, LGG 177

Tsolorandril
spiked chain (e)
Knowledge, Law, Oracle
LGD

Pyremius
longsword/whip
Destruction, Evil, Fire, Wrath
LGG 181, Drag323 p65

Procan
trident/longspear
Animal, Chaos, Storm, Travel, Water, Wrath
LGG 180, Dun106 p41, Drag323 p65

Xerbo
trident/longspear
Animal, Knowledge, Water
LGG 188

Talos (3.0)
longspear/shortspear/halfspear
Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Fire, Storm, Wrath
FaP 68, Drag323 p65

Ulutiu
longspear/shortspear
Animal, Law, Ocean, Protection, Strength
FaP 109, Fb 42

Nephthys
mace/Whip
Chaos, Good, Greed, Protection, Repose, Trade
DaD 149, FaP 145

Sebek
spear (any)
Animal, Evil, Gluttony, Scalykind, Water
FaP 146, Drag323 p65

Dreaming Dark
mindblade
Law, Evil, Shadow
PGtE 131

Madarua
longspear
Death, Healing, Protection
Drag315 p91

Njord
longspear
Air, Good, Water
DaD 184

Eadro
longspear
Protection, Seafolk, Water
Sw 49, CoD 124

Baphomet
glaive/battleaxe
Bestial, Chaos, Evil, Fury, Strength
FCI 58, Drag341 p25

Belial
ranseur
Evil, Knowledge, Trickery
FC2 27

Mephistopheles
ranseur
Diabolic, Evil, Fire
FC2 28

Al-Ishtus
whip
Animal, Death, Destruction, Evil, War
Ss 45

Azul
whip
Evil, Law, Plant, Thirst, Water
Ss 45

Lastai
grappling pole
Chaos, Good, Pleasure
BoED 25

Valarian
unicorn horn
Animal, Fey, Good
BoED 26

Erebus
whip
Darkness, Evil, Trickery
Drag322 p62

Demon deities
?
?
FCI 109

Tortle deities
?
?
Drag315 p73

Dark Sun deities
?
?
?
[tr]


Sources:

LGD: Living Greyhawk Deities list (web) (http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip)
Und: Underdark
Drag### p## Dragon magazine
Fb: Frostburn
FaP: Faiths and Pantheons
LGG: Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
Dun### p## Dungeon magazine
DaD: Deities and Demigods
PGtE: Player's Guide to Eberron
Sw: Stormwrack
FCI: Fiendish Codex I
FC2: Fiendish Codex II
CoD: Complete Divine
LoM: Lords of Madness
Ss: Sandstorm
BoED: Book of Exalted Deeds


I'm trying to make a fun fighter/cleric/Pious Templar build with Short Haft, Defensive Sweep, and possibly a Morphing Weapon. So, if anyone has any suggestions for feats or abilities that might help out a build like this (combat movement control, etc), I'd love to see those.

Anyway, a few questions on the front of deities with reach weapons and the war domain. Firstly, are there any others? I realize that some might have whips/scourges, but those are 15' and not 10' (might still work with Morphing). 3.0 stuff/WotC stuff is probably fine.

Secondly, does a deity having a "spear" as their favoured weapon mean that "longspear" is also covered? I don't think this is the case since some deities specify javelin and shortspear, but it would be neat if there was some RAW that said it would be fine. I know that some weapons like daggers and barbed daggers share feats, though, so surely it's possible.

Thirdly, the crystalkeep document says that the first two have the Pride domain, which is great if that's the case (it wasn't in the books I looked at), but if it's not, then Gruumsh is potentially the only one with two domains that are useful for someone with a cleric 1 dip. And that's only if my DM accepts the old Gruumsh over the PHB one. So if the first two deities end up being the only two usable ones, then how can I best make use of the useless domain? Devotion feats are mostly useless, I think (unless there's something I'm overlooking?).

Changelog
EDIT: DISCLAIMER: This is not going be be an optimized build. 16 str, 14 cha, 14 con; fighter x/cleric 1/lion barbarian 1/pious templar 10, maybe some swashbuckler. Power Attack, Endurance, Steadfast Determination, Goad, Wep Spec et al., Short Haft. I'm not going to be using power attack/pounce or trip cheese. No Knight due to alignment/RP restrictions.

EDIT 2: I forgot that halberds don't heave reach, and I overlooked that devotions are tied to character level, not cleric level.

EDIT3: added olympian pantheon.

EDIT4: added catalogues section, reformatted everything into tables. It's cleaner and easier to look at now!

EDIT5: reformatted tables after forum software update.

[Ashtagon]

I'm not aware of any other deities with reach weapons as favoured weapons. That said, all clerics fighters are proficient with martial weapons, which includes almost all the non-silly reach weapons. Choice of deity shouldn't prevent you playing a cleric with reach.

Regarding spear-type weapons, 3.0e defined the half-spear, short-spear, and long-spear. 3.5e renamed these to short-spear (half-spear renamed), spear (short-spear renamed), and long-spear.

By strict RAW, in 3.5e texts, Deities with "spear" as favoured weapon are referring specifically to the mid-length version of these weapons, not to all spear sizes generally.

[GilesTheCleric]

As a fighter, I'm proficient with martial. 3.5 clerics unfortunately only get simple weapons. You do raise a good point that I really could just pick any war deity with a good second domain. I might end up doing that. However, I would really like to get the benefits of the feats and class abilities that I'm getting for the majority of my combat (weapon focus and specialization; perhaps others if I have spare feats. This isn't going to be an optimized build).

Thank you for enlightening me on the "spear" bit!

Yes, some of the reach weapons get pretty absurd. I was really hoping for a deity with the Duom (AaEG), which would be crazy with Morphing. As it is, I'm looking at exploiting the double-weapon clause in Morphing to give my reach weapon swappable attributes depending upon the situation.

[Kristinn]

First, I am sure Ashtagon meant to say that fighters are proficient with all martial weapons, as Clerics only get simple weapons. So I guess you want to save the feat on Weapon Focus by combining War domain and reach weapon diety. Let me save you some time, Weapon Focus is a horrible feat anyway, with a diminutive bonus. (Yes it is a prerequisite for Short Haft, but it is not a necessary feat by any means. Just 5-foot when attacking and you are good).

If you are only going Cleric 1, and your not planning to go the DMM route, than devotion feats are a must have. Travel devotion is the go to feat, for moving and full attacking, but you can just go Barbarian 1 to pick up Pounce (Charge and full attack is almost as good as move and full attack, and better if the enemy is more than one move-action away, and charge also give +2 to attack).

Other awesome devotion feats to blow turn attempts at are Law devotion (+3/+5/+7 to AC or Attack for 10 rounds, you can switch it each turn) or Animal devotion (+Str or +Speed or Flight speed or Con dmg bite attack).

My advice: Find a diety with Law and Animal domain, go Cloistered Cleric 1 and trade all domains for Knowledge, Law and Animal devotion. Or if you really want WF/Short Haft, take Wastri, chose Guisarme as your weapon (Tripping for the win), and take Animal devotion for occasional 10 round flight speed.

[GilesTheCleric]

I'm keenly aware of just how bad weapon focus et al. is =) I probably should have explicitly clarified in the OP that this is a very non-optimized build. I'm anticipating playing in a game with other players who aren't optimizing at all, so I don't want to make the game less fun. So, my character is going to be more roleplay-focused (14 cha, 16 str, 14 con; he'll be like Gaston from Beauty and the Beast).

Right now I'm looking at fighter x/lion barbarian 1/cleric 1/pious templar 10 (maybe some levels in swashbuckler as well). I did grab pounce and power attack, but I'm avoiding anything else to exploit that combo. I'm also not using expertise/trip cheese. Generally the concept is to force the opponents to move around in my 10'/5' zones, hopefully forcing them out of the 10', then charging/pouncing them. Whether they stay within 5', 10' or further, I get to attack. Hopefully it will allow me to always make full attacks, while my foes get standard attacks. I also picked up the Goad feat (since I probably won't be able to play a Knight for RP/alignment reasons)

I assume that the "x level" on the devotion feats applies only to cleric levels, though? That's generally how it is for anything that says "levels".

EDIT: Nope, you're right. Devotions specify character levels, not levels. I must have read right over that. Thanks for making me look at it again ^^

[avr]

3.5e halberds aren't actually reach weapons. The cult of Wastri is NPC for fairly solid reasons - it's a combination of an crazy evil frog god and the Ku Klux Klan. Gruumsh might not be a great deal better depending on the campaign setting.

If you or your DM is willing to homebrew something spears were a big deal to celtic myths, I could see the Morrigan using a long spear.

[GilesTheCleric]

Thank you avr, I totally forgot about halberds XD. Wastri actually matches my character concept really well (Gaston from Beauty and the Beast), but I agree that he probably shouldn't be played by PCs. It's going to be interesting working with the party. If all else fails, I feel no shame in meta-gaming and putting myself in a non-orthodox cult of the cult, with just enough changes to the doctrine to make it acceptable in a party.

I'm still waiting to find out exactly what setting we'll be using, so that's why I'm trying to find something published but universal. As you can see, it's not working out so well.

The Morrigan is a great idea - I think maybe the 3.0 book on deities had some stuff for that? I only remember the egyptian, greek/roman, and norse pantheons, but I'll check again.

EDIT: Yup, Deities and Demigods is a no-go for something already published. Maybe I could just pick a god with any 2H weapon and War, and then use size increases/Monkey Grip to get reach (yes, I know Monkey Grip is terrible).

[Jack Zander]

Can't you just be a cleric of a cause and pick war and whatever weapon you want? Or does it not work that way?

[Telonius]

Kossuth (Faiths and Pantheons p.35) has Spiked Chain as a favored weapon. You wouldn't even need Short Haft for it.
EDIT: I has the dumbs, no War domain there.

[Jack Zander]

Wait a second! Isn't there a PrC out there that can grant you access to extra domains that aren't on your deity's list? You could take Kossuth and grab the war domain later.

[Ashtagon]

Can't you just be a cleric of a cause and pick war and whatever weapon you want? Or does it not work that way?

If you pick a cause, your favoured weapon is determined by your alignment (as defined in the spiritual weapon spell).

[Namfuak]

Wait a second! Isn't there a PrC out there that can grant you access to extra domains that aren't on your deity's list? You could take Kossuth and grab the war domain later.

One that would especially fit this character would be Ordained Champion, if it weren't for the fact that it requires Heironious or Hextor (if you don't have war I think you have to choose war according to the prestige class, but that's the one you want anyway). Contemplative gains access to a domain (including granted powers) at 1st and 6th level. That's the two that come to the top of my head, I'm sure there are others though.

[Darrin]

Wait a second! Isn't there a PrC out there that can grant you access to extra domains that aren't on your deity's list? You could take Kossuth and grab the war domain later.

You can do this with the Planar Touchstone feat. Link it to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, and pick the War domain power. You get proficiency with your deity's favored weapon and Weapon Focus (two-for-one deal). This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9236967#post9236967) lists a number of deities that have exotic weapons, including spiked chain. (Note: However, by RAW the War domain gives "Martial Weapon Proficiency", not "Exotic Weapon Proficiency", but most DMs should handwave this.)

I only listed exotics... if you want something martial... hmm.

Ulutiu (Frostburn p. 42) has the longspear, but no war domain. Same thing with Eadro and Procan (Stormwrack p. 49). Hmm. Couple of snake gods in Serpent Kingdoms, but again, no war domain.

Aha. Here we go. In Deities & Demigods, you can choose to worship an entire pantheon instead of one specific god. If you choose the Olympion Pantheon, you choose two domains out of the entire pantheon (which includes War), and then you can pick a favored weapon from the following list: "dagger, greatclub, light mace, longsword, quarterstaff, short sword, spear (any kind), trident, unarmed strike, or warhammer".

So that would get you the War domain with MWP: Longspear.

[GilesTheCleric]

Wow, you found a way to do it, Darrin. Thank you so much! Although by RAW, the cleric only gets that weapon for the Spiritual Weapon spell and not as a favoured weapon. I'm pretty sure my DM won't mind this, though, since there is apparently literally one deity with a reach weapon and war. Serious oversight on the part of WotC. I'll probably go with the Pantheon method to save on feats (lol, a fighter saving on feats).

I'll remember the Catalogues method, though. I've never thought to use it like that before. To be fair, I've never made a fighter/cleric before, either. Man, I'm so pumped right now. I thought it wasn't going to work out. Thank you everyone for helping! This thread was remarkably on-topic and full of useful ideas.

Anyway, I'll open up the thread to general chat on the topic, and would still love to hear if there are any other deities I might have missed, just for the sake of completion.

And a quick question -- I can use Monkey Grip/weapon size increases to get reach as medium, right? I figure that's another way of getting what I need, but it's so much less elegant and efficient.

[Darrin]

And a quick question -- I can use Monkey Grip/weapon size increases to get reach as medium, right? I figure that's another way of getting what I need, but it's so much less elegant and efficient.

No. Monkey Grip has no effect on reach. Natural reach is determined entirely by the creature's size, not by what weapon they are wielding. All Monkey Grip does is let you ignore the "increased handedness" required to wield a larger-sized weapon. You still take the -2 inappropriate size penalty, which is nearly impossible to get rid of.

[GilesTheCleric]

Okay. I had never seen or tried to use it that way before, so I wasn't sure. I'll poke around and see if there are any other options to grant reach with non-reach besides PC size increases, then.

The Powerful Lunge feat gives it, and the Blood Wind spell kind of does. Maybe there's a weapon enchantment that does as well.

[Vertharrad]

Have you tried Shevarash(CN longbow Chaos Elf Retribution War) or Solonor Thelandira(CG longbow Chaos Elf Good Plant War) from Forgotten Realms?

[GilesTheCleric]

Hmn, I haven't. Elf domain increases my versatility, and they both have war. I think I remember a rule in CS, CAd or AaEG about using a longbow as a long staff so that I can get 10' reach, but I really don't remember if there's a rule like that or not. I'll have to go check.

EDIT: It would probably make the longbow into a quarterstaff, which doesn't have reach. I don't think there's a longstaff item. I've just been thinking about longspears too much recently, I think XD