Thought experiment: How many full attacks can you make in a turn?

[amdskitzo]

I was thinking about how you can make more than one full attack action and was wondering what the most full attack actions one can make in a turn is?

The best I can come up with is 3, two different ways:

1) Swordsage until you have access to time stands still. Use maneuver to get to full attacks then burn three charges of a belt of battle to get another full round action.

2) 16 levels of swordsage, 4 of Tellflammar Shadowlord(to get shadow pounce). Swordsages get access to 3 maneuvers that work like dimension door(Shadow blitz, walk, and blink if i remember correctly) each at a different action(standard, move and swift). Use each one sequentially, making a full attack after each one thanks to shadow pounce.

Is it possible to do more than 3?

[Chronos]

There's probably some spellcasting cheese that'll let you do more than three teleportation effects in a single turn. Use that instead of the swordsage maneuvers (except for the move-action one; spellcasters can't do much with a move action).

[Heliomance]

Give your Swordsage the Sudden Leap maneuver, the Battle Jump feat from Unapproachable East, and some way of getting Pounce. Then you can make a jump check as a swift action, which if you can jump high enough to get 5ft above your enemy's head triggers Battle Jump, giving you a free charge, which is a full attack because Pounce.

EDIT: Bother, you're already using your swift action. Oh well. You can still make a jump check as a move action though, so any method of getting bonus move actions translates directly to extra full attacks.

[avr]

Factotums can get extra standard actions at level 8. If you then take the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC to 4th level (take a couple of levels as a Fighter, Psychic Warrior, Feat Rogue or ACF'd Monk for the prereq feats) and get a means of teleporting as a standard action, and dump all your other feats into Font of Inspiration you should be able to get quite a few full attacks via Shadow Pounce.

[AmberVael]

I was about to suggest the same thing as Avr. It's worth noting that while at will teleportation is not too hard to find, a lot of it is based on Dimension Door, which brings your turn to an immediate halt. You don't want to use the Blink Shirt soulmeld or Flee the Scene for this.

The best thing I could find at short notice was the Dimensional Jaunt reserve feat, which IS possible to use for that purpose, though it may make your build a bit strange.

[Vaz]

Is it 4 from Island of Time and The Diamond Mind maneuvre?

Ardent Metapower Linked Psynchronicity for 2 Standard actions a turn. Combine with Factotum 8 for Action Surge. Wizard for Greater Celerity.

Barbarian for Pounce.

[amdskitzo]

A lot of what has been suggested I did think of, but using the swordsage/shadow lord idea, you would already be using your standard, move and swift actions for the turn. I didn't think of factotum, but that could add to it. The only problem I could see off hand is that the build might lose access to the swordsage's swift action teleport.

[KillianHawkeye]

I can do one.

[jokeaccount]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=333.0

13 full attacks from Knight of Shadows

[A_S]

It is possible to make an arbitrarily large number of full attacks in a single round.

1. Nightsticks stack without limit, so Turn Undead attempts are unlimited.
2. Ruby Knight Vindicator can spend turn undead attempts to get swift actions.
3. There's a swift action [teleportation] maneuver (Shadow Blink).
4. Idiot Crusaders can use each of their maneuvers at will.
5. Shadow Pounce lets you full attack each time you teleport.
6. I'm pretty sure it's possible to get RKV 7, Shadow Pounce, and Idiot Crusader refreshing all in the same build.

If your DM rules that RKV has to spend a standard action to get a swift, then you'd have to resort to Arcane Fusion/Twinned Celerity cheese (or whatever other infinite loop you want to use) to get NI standard actions. In that case, you'd be limited by your spells/day. For a ballpark estimate of how many that might be, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15014977&postcount=19)'s some back-of-envelope math I did a while back to figure out how many copies of Dancing Lights an unoptimized Sorcerer could cast in one round; I ended up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15015903&postcount=27) getting 114. The same trick would work just as well with Benign Transposition, or any other teleportation spell you want.

[Xervous]

Prone to edits, optimizing presentation and build.

Assumption: fractional BAB


1 rogue / 5 Psion / 1 assassin / 4 telflammar shadowlord
relevant feats:
Human: dodge
1 mobility
3 blind fight
6 spring attack

psion bonus feat: practiced manifester
lvl 5: ~


1. Dorje of affinity field through UPD
2. Dorje of Fission through UPD
3. Infinite action / power point loop.

Either you or your clone manifests bestow power on the other augmented as high as it can be, because of the affinity field it affects both of you. Manifesting synchronicity gives the other a free standard action at the cost of 1 power point. Between you and your clone, the power point gain from bestow power is almost always greater than 1. Voila, infinite actions

4. manifest dimension swap as many times as you feel like it, targeting your double. Both of you each get a full attack from this standard action.

NI full attacks. Now the challenge is to see whats the lowest level we can do it at.

[Silva Stormrage]

I am surprised lightning maces haven't been mentioned yet. I believe there is a crit build that gives basically infinite attacks.

[Phelix-Mu]

I believe a similar thread resolved that there is a twinned celerity loop of some kind that allows for one to stack standard actions into infinity. You need to secure some kind of daze immunity, I guess. The rules on spellcasting are so terrifically not coordinated that the possible level of lunacy can hardly be conceived.

The Swordsage/Telflammar Shadowlord or Sun School synergy stuff is much more interesting.

By changing up the slots for belt of battle, that can also allow multiple activations in the extended time.

Eternal Blade's Island in Time and Time Stands Still is fun, but not as easy to chain combo as the spells.

Cerebremancer can probably hook up some schism and other telepathy stuff to get some extra mental actions. Not super useful for most builds.

[Tvtyrant]

I can get a little over 20. Craft Contingency, teleport spell, Telflammar Shadowlord. Each time you finish a full attack you immediately teleport behind the target you just full attacked.

[Icewraith]

Doesn't anything based off Dimension Door end your turn?

[Xervous]

Yes, which is why some contributors kindly pointed out that you should "avoid using dimension door for this sort of thing"

[Darkcouch]

It is possible to make an arbitrarily large number of full attacks in a single round.

1. Nightsticks stack without limit, so Turn Undead attempts are unlimited.
2. Ruby Knight Vindicator can spend turn undead attempts to get swift actions.
3. There's a swift action [teleportation] maneuver (Shadow Blink).
4. Idiot Crusaders can use each of their maneuvers at will.
5. Shadow Pounce lets you full attack each time you teleport.
6. I'm pretty sure it's possible to get RKV 7, Shadow Pounce, and Idiot Crusader refreshing all in the same build.



Number 4 is not strictly true. Unless you are using RKV's divine recovery to recover your Shadow Blink a crusader would not recover any of his expended maneuvers until the end of his turn. So really you wouldn't need to be an Idiot Crusader.

[Heliomance]

I am surprised lightning maces haven't been mentioned yet. I believe there is a crit build that gives basically infinite attacks.

Specifically, it has a 5/9 chance of going infinite. That's attacks though, not full attack actions.

Nobody liked my Sudden Leap/Battle Jump combo?

[Akal Saris]

I like the battle jump build, but mainly because I think it would be hilarious to watch it in action :P

For a non-shadow-pouncing // non-battle jump build:

A Wizard 9/swordsage 1/jade phoenix mage 10 build:

ACL 17, IL 15 (irrelevant)

Ring of the Diamond Mind, Greater: Time Stands Still maneuver: 2 full attacks (full round, requires wearer to know 4 diamond mind maneuvers)
Belt of Battle: 1 full attack (swift, 1/day)
Twinned greater celerity + an immunity to dazing effects: 2 full attacks (immediate, will require a metamagic rod or lots of reducers)
Total: 5 full attacks

With 1 or more rounds of prep time, you could add echoing/repeat spell for some more full attacks out of celerity, but that's probably against the spirit of the question.

[Silva Stormrage]

Specifically, it has a 5/9 chance of going infinite. That's attacks though, not full attack actions.

Nobody liked my Sudden Leap/Battle Jump combo?

You know I have been reading the thread and JUST realized that it was full attacks and not attacks. My bad :smallredface:

[Mato]

Specifically, it has a 5/9 chance of going infinite. That's attacks though, not full attack actions.

Nobody liked my Sudden Leap/Battle Jump combo?It's not that. You are reliant on Battle Jump's first words. Remember Powerful Build? If not, the debate goes something like Powerful Build says you're large, then defines what it means. You were never actually large to begin with. Battle Jump is much the same.

Mantis Leap however does flat out say "you can make a normal charge attack against the opponent you designated as part of the same action.", the action it's referring to is making a jump Check. Not a move action, not an opening line statement, but each time you make a successful jump check you can charge your opponent as part of that jump check's action.

The kicker? jump checks require no action, they are done as part of a move action. So you can jump multiple times during a single move action triggering multiple charges. Pounce turns each and everyone single one of those into a full-attack. So all you need to do is capitalize on your speed.

As a nothing says no, wings can be used for a single powerful flap, and you can be "Prone" in mid air, you can say you can jump while flying. This lets you use Fiend Folio's Feathered Wings's fly speed, which is double your land speed. Ghostwalk's Rapidwaith doubles all your speeds. So say you have a 30ft base land speed, this becomes 60ft from Rapidwaith making your base fly speed 120ft. Rapidwaith, which hasn't been applied to your fly speed, then doubles this number to 240ft. Every +5ft to your speed is worth +20ft.

Assuming you run in circles around something hopping around like the easter bunny, that becomes a huge number of full-attacks.

[Heliomance]

It's not that. You are reliant on Battle Jump's first words. Remember Powerful Build? If not, the debate goes something like Powerful Build says you're large, then defines what it means. You were never actually large to begin with. Battle Jump is much the same.

Just looked over the wording of Battle Jump, not seeing the problem.

[Bakkan]

You can get arbitrarily many in a single round (not turn) just by using an Idiot Crusader with White Raven Tactics to keep aking turns until everything is dead. It's not exactly in the spirit of the challenge, though.

For similar levels of chesse, using a Factotum and one of the ways of geting arbitrarily many feats (such as the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle + Planar Touchstone) will get you arbitrarily many standard actions in one turn.

[HurinTheCursed]

Heroic surge from several of DragonLance's books (but only 3rd party ones AFAIK) gives you extra move / standard action in a round, but not both in the same round.

[ahenobarbi]

Ruby Knight Vindicator can use turn attempts to get swift actions to cast Greater Celerities to get extra (number of Greater Celerities you can cast) full-round actions which it can use to full-attack.

Sorcerer can Grater Arcane Fusion of (sanctum spell Grater Arcane Fusion + sanctum spell Greater Celerity) to get about as much extra full attacks.

[Sith_Happens]

Nobody liked my Sudden Leap/Battle Jump combo?

You don't need Sudden Leap at all, just teleport five feet above the enemy, giving you one full attack from teleporting and then a second from falling. Which makes six total.

[limejuicepowder]

You can get arbitrarily many in a single round (not turn) just by using an Idiot Crusader with White Raven Tactics to keep aking turns until everything is dead. It's not exactly in the spirit of the challenge, though.

For similar levels of chesse, using a Factotum and one of the ways of geting arbitrarily many feats (such as the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle + Planar Touchstone) will get you arbitrarily many standard actions in one turn.

Assuming that level of cheese is allowed (debatable....idiot crusader is based on a rather loose interpretation), this would still allow enemies to act. White raven tactics decreases your initiative roll by one each use, which means opponents would get a turn - it's not a self-contained action generator like cunning surge is.

Also, I distinctly remember reading somewhere that -10 is the very last initiative count, and a character can't act beyond that. Logically, this would put a cap on WRT uses in a round.

[Snowbluff]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258689) is a thought experiment I came up with a while ago.

Replace Dimension Hop with Stand (It's teleportation) could make it work earlier.

Basically, become immune to daze with Mark of the Dauntless, and MM up Repeat Twin Dimension Hop/Stand, and nest those in Twin Repeat Celerity chains. Blow all of your celerity in one turn, and use those to cast a lot of teleports.

[Bakkan]

Assuming that level of cheese is allowed (debatable....idiot crusader is based on a rather loose interpretation), this would still allow enemies to act. White raven tactics decreases your initiative roll by one each use, which means opponents would get a turn - it's not a self-contained action generator like cunning surge is.

Also, I distinctly remember reading somewhere that -10 is the very last initiative count, and a character can't act beyond that. Logically, this would put a cap on WRT uses in a round.

Oh, Idiot Crusader + self-WRT is stinky cheese (though I don't think a more restrained Idiot Crusader is much of a problem). And yes, this doesn't stop your enemies fom actiing once during your infinte turns. However, the -10 minimum Initiative is not a standard rule. There is no limit to how low your Initiative can go in standard 3.5, so once all your enemies have acted at least once, you can take all the time you want.

[Akal Saris]

To play off the factotum idea, the Boots of Battle Charging allow you to charge as a standard action (uses your swift to activate), so as long as the character had pounce (likely through barbarian 1), then factotum would work for full attacks.

[Heliomance]

You don't need Sudden Leap at all, just teleport five feet above the enemy, giving you one full attack from teleporting and then a second from falling. Which makes six total.

I think you'd need natural reach or a spiked chain for that to work, as when the attack from the teleport triggered you'd have 5 feet between you and their head by my reading. Not that that's a problem, but it's something to bear in mind.

[Chronos]

Quoth Bakkan:

For similar levels of chesse, using a Factotum and one of the ways of geting arbitrarily many feats (such as the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle + Planar Touchstone) will get you arbitrarily many standard actions in one turn.
Remember, there's a limit to how many times you can take Font of Inspiration: You can only have as many as your Int modifier. Which is going to be pretty darned high for a factotum, but still finite.