So what's the deal with Runesmiths?

[TheTrueMooseman]

So I've been working on a campaign setting where magic is essentially invoked by tracing out limited imitations of the fundamental runes used by the creator race to create the world - in other words, there are shapes which have fundamental power just by being that shape. As such, the idea of the Runesmith PrC, being someone who uses runes specifically as a mechanic, is very interesting to me. But from what little I've heard about it it seems to be one of the more powerful arcane PrCs out there and I'm having trouble seeing why, exactly. Any clues? Any sneaky tactics I should be on the look-out for?

[Emperor Tippy]

So I've been working on a campaign setting where magic is essentially invoked by tracing out limited imitations of the fundamental runes used by the creator race to create the world - in other words, there are shapes which have fundamental power just by being that shape. As such, the idea of the Runesmith PrC, being someone who uses runes specifically as a mechanic, is very interesting to me. But from what little I've heard about it it seems to be one of the more powerful arcane PrCs out there and I'm having trouble seeing why, exactly. Any clues? Any sneaky tactics I should be on the look-out for?

Well for one you can permanent rune Wish for 5,000 GP and then have 2/day XP free wishes for the rest of eternity.

Also, arguable, you can use Rune Magic to stack up spells in your down time and then when you go adventuring have dozens (or even hundreds) of times your normal daily spell allotment.

You can also use Share Runes to get around the personal range limitation on spells. Give your fighter buddy a Shapechange Rune and he's good to go without having to pay for or use a scroll of shapechange.

True Strike, Wraithstrike, Celerity, Sniper's Shot, Antimagic Field, Eyes of the Oracle, Transformation, Body of War, Iron Body, Foresight, Timestop. Plenty of useful spells that were mostly balanced (if at all) by only being usable by the caster.

[Telonius]

I believe the main draw is that all of the spells are cast without a somatic component. That's like getting Still Spell for free on all your spells forever.

[Gavinfoxx]

I like Runecasters more than Runesmiths...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163569

Had a game idea that used them greatly...

[WhatBigTeeth]

It has full casting, it casts spells in armor, it lets its noncasting allies cast spells with their actions, and it gets to turn spells into SLAs, which default to standard action casting times, remove components (the ability doesn't do anything to help spells with prohibitively expensive material components, but only paying the XP cost once on something like Simulacrum can be useful) and get around limitations like domains' or Arcane Disciple's 1/day memorization limit.

It might not be worth dipping out or burning feats on proficiencies, but for a build that would get them anyway, it's a solid place to sink some levels.

[Marnath]

Well for one you can permanent rune Wish for 5,000 GP and then have 2/day XP free wishes for the rest of eternity.

Also, arguable, you can use Rune Magic to stack up spells in your down time and then when you go adventuring have dozens (or even hundreds) of times your normal daily spell allotment.


You can only permanent rune wish if you waste an epic feat on improved spell capacity so that you have a 10th level slot to forfeit, and the cost to create it is 5,000 xp, not gp. Permanent rune only costs money for expensive material components and foci.

[Emperor Tippy]

You can only permanent rune wish if you waste an epic feat on improved spell capacity so that you have a 10th level slot to forfeit,
That is what Sanctum Spell is for. There is also Inspire Greatness+ Psychic Reformation.


and the cost to create it is 5,000 xp, not gp. Permanent rune only costs money for expensive material components and foci.
Yeah, that one I just flubbed on. I meant XP and typed it wrong.

[Marnath]

That is what Sanctum Spell is for. There is also Inspire Greatness+ Psychic Reformation.


Sanctum Spell lowers effective level, not actual level. Sanctum Wish is still cast from a 9th level slot. The hitdice from inspire greatness only grant hitpoints, +2 to attack and +1 to fort saves. Not feats. Neither of those tricks is valid, so I'm not seeing your point.

[Emperor Tippy]

Sanctum Spell lowers effective level, not actual level. Sanctum Wish is still cast from a 9th level slot.
It might cast from a 9th level slot but for all rules purposes it's an 8th level spell. You need to sacrifice a 9th level slot to Permanent Rune a Sanctum Wish.


The hitdice from inspire greatness only grant hitpoints, +2 to attack and +1 to fort saves. Not feats.
Whether they themselves grant feats is somewhat debated but it's RAW clear that they qualify you for epic feats and that you can then use psychic reformation to up your skills (maximum skill rank being HD+3) and to give you an epic feat (which requires that you have more than 21 HD in addition to any other prerequisites).
The real reason that this isn't practical is that you need the Bard to keep Inspiring Greatness for 24 hours.


Neither of those tricks is valid, so I'm not seeing your point.
Actually both are valid.

[Mithril Leaf]

That is what Sanctum Spell is for. There is also Inspire Greatness+ Psychic Reformation.

I believe you meant red wizard and extra slot. :smallwink:

[Emperor Tippy]

I believe you meant red wizard and extra slot. :smallwink:

That works as well.

[Phelix-Mu]

The real reason that this isn't practical is that you need the Bard to keep Inspiring Greatness for 24 hours.


Sounds like a job for a tulani eladrin. If you can secure one as an ally, it can maintain a bardic music effect as a free action, I believe.

[CyberThread]

what do youdo with the runes when you go to get new spells?

[Phelix-Mu]

what do youdo with the runes when you go to get new spells?

I think you have rune components for every spell you know that has a somatic component. I think. I played one a while back, so I'm a bit rusty.