Tier 4 or below character suggestions

[Donox]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a tier 4 or below character concept that is mechanically interesting. Only issue is book restrictions - DM is allowing SRD + 2 other books.

[SowZ]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a tier 4 or below character concept that is mechanically interesting. Only issue is book restrictions - DM is allowing SRD + 2 other books.

Do you mean cool, like dual crossbow pistol wielder. Funny, like throws potted plants at people which do massive damage then entangle them. Gimmicky, like the beariest character ever?

Also, does dragon compendium count as a book?

[Toliudar]

It might also be useful to know starting level. A lot of concepts don't really start to coalesce until high levels.

[Donox]

Ah right. Sorry about that.

Starting level is 9.

Dragon compendium is allowed.

And I suppose I am looking for mechanically cool concepts, which do something relatively unique (and preferably well)

[eggynack]

At tier four I generally like intimidation barbarians and warlocks. They both tend to get a variety of things to do. I don't think that either of them require too many books either.

[Toliudar]

Does turning into animals count as mechanically cool? How about wildshape TWF ranger to turn into a gorilla, pick up a big stick/quarterstaff and use it and a bite attack to become the monkey king.

Warlock with Summon Swarm, Fell Flight and Charm. Pretend to be a vampire. Unless you consider Warlocks to be tier 3, of course.

Warlock 6/Prestige Bard 2/Lyric Thaumaturge 1. A Rock musician who can provide their own pyrotechnics.

[Amnestic]

ShneekyTheLost's Samurai-based fear lockdown build? :smalltongue:

[Donox]

Intimidation, while very interesting, is out. I have used that recently for another character and dislike repeating it.

There is already another warlock in the party so that is out as well.

I have been looking at the Totemist/Incarnate. Does anyone know the tiers of those classes?

[Amnestic]

I have been looking at the Totemist/Incarnate. Does anyone know the tiers of those classes?

I believe both of those are Tier 3, with the Incarnate being arguably on the Tier 4 and Tier 3 border.

Soulborn is Tier 5 or 6 :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

For Tier 4, I like:

-Religious Adepts
-Charge focused Barbarians
-Nightstalkers
-Savants
-Fighters with a huge amount of of obscure and useful ACFs from all over the place (might bump up against your book limit)

Note that if you add enough of the right ACF's to Ranger, you bump it's Tier (versatility increases greatly). Though adding ACF's to barbarian generally just makes them more badass in combat, so that doesn't usually bump their Tier, even if they can, with the right ACF's and feats, use Survival for everything...

Here's Tier 4: Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant, or with useful ACF's in general), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

[Snowbluff]

Warlock! They are soooo cool!

Straight warlock works, but you can go into anima Mage, or escalation Mage.

[Jeff the Green]

Binder's fun, and only needs ToM to work.

[Gavinfoxx]

Binder's fun, and only needs ToM to work.

The only problem is, Binder is Tier 3 or Tier 2... so there's that.

[Jeff the Green]

The only problem is, Binder is Tier 3 or Tier 2... so there's that.

Rats. I just remembered that it was the same tier as wildshape ranger. I blame Toliudar. :smallamused:

Swift Hunter (scout/ranger) is tier 4.

[Curmudgeon]

Steer clear of Rogues if you've only got 2 splatbooks to work with. WotC addressed the many flaws of this class in many (more than a dozen) different supplements. :smallannoyed:

[Snowbluff]

Binder's fun, and only needs ToM to work.

Who said anything about binder? You can enter without it.:smallwink:

But more seriously escalation Mage is nice.

[Jeff the Green]

Who said anything about binder? You can enter without it.:smallwink:

But more seriously escalation Mage is nice.

Yeah, but it's debatable whether you benefit. If you have no levels in binder, can you progress it?

[Amnestic]

Yeah, but it's debatable whether you benefit. If you have no levels in binder, can you progress it?

In the case of Anima Mage? Yes. RAW is clear. "At each anima mage level, your soul binding ability improves as if you had also gained a level in the Binder class."

[Person_Man]

I believe both of those are Tier 3, with the Incarnate being arguably on the Tier 4 and Tier 3 border.

Totemist and Incarnate are both Tier 3. (As is the Binder, which can be bumped up to Tier 2 with access to online vestiges).

The Incarnate's is amazing at defense and utility, but his best soulmelds and chakra binds are not self evident, and most people focus on pure melee or ranged attacks when they should be focusing on battlefield control, and thus he usually ends up getting played as Tier 4-5. (If anyone really needs me to demonstrate why I can. But just Google my name and the name of either class and you'll probably get other posts from me which prove it).


My suggestions:

Healer (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6849.0): Generally considered Tier 5. At level 8 you get your Celestial Unicorn Companion, which by itself is a Tier 4 tank. Ride it, cast healing and status condition removal spells as needed, and Share Spells. You're basically impossible to kill unless an enemy one-shots you, plus you're mobile, can heal your friends as needed, and can be the party face.

Warmage: Blasty spells. Generally outclassed by every other full caster that's not the Healer, but if you're in a world where they don't exist, you're fun and useful.

Spellthief (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a): Basically a Rogue with slightly less Sneak Attack dice and Skill points and no Evasion or Uncanny Dodge. But you can Steal Spells, Spell-like abilities, and Energy Resistance, Absorb spells, and you have a small number of spells you can cast yourself. Very useful if you have a Warlock and/or Dragonfire Adept in your party, because you can "borrow" Invocations from them as needed. (They can't use them when you use them, but they're also not "losing" them like they would a spell, since they have infinite uses per day).

This is only a good idea if you can convince another player to play a Warlock

[TuggyNE]

No one's mentioned the venerable Horizon Tripper yet? Well, I will; I have a soft spot for Horizon Walker.

[Harrow]

Truenamer. Do it. It's not as bad as everybody makes it out to be.

[eggynack]

Truenamer. Do it. It's not as bad as everybody makes it out to be.
Well, the truenamer is tier 4 or so when played with high optimization. How many books outside of the SRD do you need to optimize truenaming checks? You need tome of magic, for obvious reasons, and then you probably need the magic item compendium. Do you need any other books to pull it off?

[Lightlawbliss]

the adept isn't terrible, can pull some interesting combos.

[SowZ]

Well, the truenamer is tier 4 or so when played with high optimization. How many books outside of the SRD do you need to optimize truenaming checks? You need tome of magic, for obvious reasons, and then you probably need the magic item compendium. Do you need any other books to pull it off?

It's a not-significant investment of wealth and resources, though. Skill focus will be one of few feats, not to mention a +(Whatever you can afford,) truenaming item plus a skill point every level...

[eggynack]

It's a not-significant investment of wealth and resources, though. Skill focus will be one of few feats, not to mention a +(Whatever you can afford,) truenaming item plus a skill point every level...
I'm not saying it's not a chore, and I'm not saying it's necessarily worth it. It's just a somewhat interesting class that happens to hover around tier four if you can consistently meet the truenaming checks. Also, I think that it should be "not-insignificant", in order to give your statement the form of a litote.

[Harrow]

The Truenamer and pretty much everything ever made pertaining directly to it are all in the Tome of Magic. I actually can't think of anything out of the MIC that they would use. In fact, the only book I feel you really would want to look into would be Complete Champion, which contains both Knowledge Devotion, which Truenamers love, and the Paragnostic Assembly, a group that every Truenamber begs to join.

[eggynack]

The Truenamer and pretty much everything ever made pertaining directly to it are all in the Tome of Magic. I actually can't think of anything out of the MIC that they would use. In fact, the only book I feel you really would want to look into would be Complete Champion, which contains both Knowledge Devotion, which Truenamers love, and the Paragnostic Assembly, a group that every Truenamber begs to join.
True enough, I suppose. I'd thought there was some item that gave a big boost to checks in the MiC, but I suppose I was mistaken. Thus, as a consequence of truenamers getting so little love, it's quite possible to build a perfect truenamer using only the SRD and two books. I still don't know if anyone would want to go through the hassle, but it fits the criteria well enough.

[sonofzeal]

Spelltheif is fantastic. If you're looking for "interesting", look no further.

Spelltheives aren't "powerful". They don't get huge numbers, and they lack the raw power/utility of a proper caster. However, they're... mmm.... the best word I can think of is "applicable". Their toolbox is limited, and the tools in it aren't brutal, but they're unusual in ways that can be highly effective if applied correctly.

Spelltheives, in short, are just about the ideal class for problem-solvers. They reward cleverness and creativity more than any other low-Tier class. A Spelltheif who doesn't know what they're doing is a gimp'd Rogue; a clever and prepared one could run with a T1 high-OP party and be useful.

They are "interesting". They are "mechanically unique". And they are very, very fun to play.

[Harrow]

Yes, spellthieves are awesome. At high optimization levels, you can do some tricks with the Master Spellthief feat to get some ridiculous caster levels, but they can still be loads of fun when they are actually played as sneaky casters and not just stapled on to a wizard for a novelty build.

Related content to these has been brought up, so I feel this warning may be useful, if not to you then to anyone who may come across it : don't play either a Soulborn or Shadowcaster unless you have a crippling fear of success and relevance. Soulborn is an Incarnum class with brutally slow Essentia and Chakra progressions and the Shadowcaster... well, it's a full caster, but it gets fewer spells per day than a generalist Wizard, fewer spells known than a Sorcerer, and gets to pick them, with restrictions, off of a rather limited list.

They're both just so underwhelming... they kind of do cool things, but they just don't have the numbers to back it up.

[ericgrau]

Based on the standard tier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf4 4e&topic=1002.0) guides (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0) a barbarian 1 / ranger 3 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple X is tier 5. It hits harder than any other core melee, trips better, has a decent set of skills and can use arcane wands and staffs. It can do anything a horizon tripper can do (also tier 5 by the guide, btw), often better and with more variety until level 10. Then at-will dimension door at level 11 changes things a bit. You could always pick up a flight magic item for some mobility by this time. Fighter 4 / sorc 1 / DD X is supposedly tier 6, right next to commoner.

Other than that... I'm confused a bit about the question. Tiers seem to be based around options, yet the OP wants a low tier with a lot of options? You mean a low tier class with more to do than it normally can? Well, cheap magic items help.

[SowZ]

Based on the standard tier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf4 4e&topic=1002.0) guides (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0) a barbarian 1 / ranger 3 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple X is tier 5. It hits harder than any other core melee, trips better, has a decent set of skills and can use arcane wands and staffs. It can do anything a horizon tripper can do (also tier 5 by the guide, btw), often better and with more variety until level 10. Then at-will dimension door at level 11 changes things a bit. You could always pick up a flight magic item for some mobility by this time. Fighter 4 / sorc 1 / DD X is supposedly tier 6, right next to commoner.

Other than that... I'm confused a bit about the question. Tiers seem to be based around options, yet the OP wants a low tier with a lot of options? You mean a low tier class with more to do than it normally can? Well, cheap magic items help.

The tier system doesn't do a good job of accounting for heavily multi-classed builds, though, and it admits as much.

[ericgrau]

I don't see how you can get into a dragon disciple or horizon walker as intended with less multiclassing. Take for example pure ranger entry into horizon walker. Guide says t4. Then 1 tier worse for horizon walker. T5.

This seems more like finding flaws in the tier system than actually finding a low tier, though. Which is fine if the OP is ok with that. The definition of t4 is not a lot to do and/or not that useful, which seems to go against what the OP wants.

[wayfare]

Bad choices can drop you some tiers, as can self limiting.

I'd say Hexblade is a fun T4. I'll second spellthief because it is just too much fun if you have a party with casters.

There is a swashbuckler variant that trades Grace for some minor spellcasting, which is also fun.

Personally, I go Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Chameleon 10/Whatever. Chameleon adds a bunch of power, but nobody says you actually have to USE it.

[Amphetryon]

Dark Companion Mearls' Fix Hexblade. Do eet.

[Lans]

The Incarnate's is amazing at defense and utility, but his best soulmelds and chakra binds are not self evident, and most people focus on pure melee or ranged attacks when they should be focusing on battlefield control, and thus he usually ends up getting played as Tier 4-5. (If anyone really needs me to demonstrate why I can. But just Google my name and the name of either class and you'll probably get other posts from me which prove it).


I would like to see it