LGBTAitP #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3

[Karen Lynn]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the thirty-fifth wonderful installment of the thread for the discussion, celebration and support of everyone who isn't quite heterocisnormative.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment. Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, Q, I, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.

If you have a question or two about LGBTA+, you can ask it here! You can ask for advice and support in here.

In addition, many members are willing to give private advice one on one, either through email or PM. The best way to do this is asking for PM help in thread, or else to PM one of the following people:

Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, will Skype(voice if needed, no video)
Karen Lynn: General/basics, pansexuality, polyamory, will Skype(no voice or video, however)
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones)
Lix Lorn: General/basics
Tanail: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however)
Absol197: Gender identity issues
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype
Asteron Questar: Relationships, depression
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
Socratov: Skype-ness
Chess435: Skype

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means, this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!


Here are the rules of this thread!


Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe :smallsmile:)


Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:
LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236828)

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239610)

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13243754)

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249030)

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253352)

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256951)

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14110484#post14110484)

LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262926)

LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267638)

LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272099)

LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275839)

LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278799)

LGTAitP 34: <3!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281021)


And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG: Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer
Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. not very common.
AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth
FAAB/MAAB: Female/Male Assigned at Birth.


Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to two genders (usually men and women, sometimes transgender instead of one of those).
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)


Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.

Venus Envy. (http://www.venusenvycomic.com/) Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/first/) A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix. (http://www.khaoskomix.com/)As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. (http://alwaysraininghere.com/index.php/first-page/) "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you. (http://trippingoveryou.com/comic/gmorning-sunshine/)An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/) The LGBTA characters are well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. (http://whatsnormalanyway.net/?p=93) An FtM webcomic. Seems decent so far.

I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.

[DrunkenMists]

First Cookie!

*om nom nom*

Sorry; I couldn't Resist.

[monkyman640]

I put a link to this thread in the last one.

[Karen Lynn]

Oops. I knew I forgot something. >.< Fixed it now. Thanks, MM!

[mistformsquirrl]

There's nothing like that new thread smell. Smells like hazelnuts <^-^>

[Irish Musician]

Karen........you are back!! :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

[Karen Lynn]

I forgot my phone's homepage was set to the thread. Saw it had fifty pages, and nobody offered to make a new thread, so.... *points* Look that way! *pulls a Batman* *gone again*

[Eldest]

I forgot my phone's homepage was set to the thread. Saw it had fifty pages, and nobody offered to make a new thread, so.... *points* Look that way! *pulls a Batman* *gone again*

*hooks arm around, pulls back*
Nope.

Also, just a thought, we might want to say who's willing to talk on Skype in the list of list of people to contact (though not the Skype contact info itself, for me at least, since mine is literally my name). Anybody else think that's a good plan?

[Karen Lynn]

*hooks arm around, pulls back*
Nope.

Also, just a thought, we might want to say who's willing to talk on Skype in the list of list of people to contact (though not the Skype contact info itself, for me at least, since mine is literally my name). Anybody else think that's a good plan?

v.v;; Awwww.... So much for my exit. In that case, I shall fix your grammar and add a marker to people willing to Skype! :3

Who was that again? >.<

[SiuiS]

Turns out I've been waking up, yelling at my Scotty for climbing on the dresser, and going back to sleep without remembering it. That's why my throat hurts >_<


v.v;; Awwww.... So much for my exit. In that case, I shall fix your grammar and add a marker to people willing to Skype! :3

Who was that again? >.<

Probably best just to note that for board-innappropriate topics, you should ask a person if they are willing to go off-site? That way instead of listing Skype stuff, people can ask "can I Skype with you?" Or similar.


Results of a big European GSRM survey. (http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/eu-lgbt-survey-results-at-a-glance_en.pdf)

Interesting. Scary large numbers. Universally at least 1 in 3. Although I'm surprised lesbians seem to get the most guff. That goes against what I know of patriarchal thinking.


[I]NEW THREAD!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284121)

Hi Karen!
... In the time it took to go from 34 to 35 you changed your avatar again. Good timing! XD

EDIT: and again since I posted? *taps cache with hoof* hello? Is this thing on?

[Karen Lynn]

Probably best just to note that for board-innappropriate topics, you should ask a person if they are willing to go off-site? That way instead of listing Skype stuff, people can ask "can I Skype with you?" Or similar.

Hi Karen!
... In the time it took to go from 34 to 35 you changed your avatar again. Good timing! XD

Ah, but I'm willing to Skype for any reason, not just board inappropriate topics. PMs are so slow... >.<

Also, I use a rotating avvie service. Hit refresh a few times and watch it change. I only have five avvies in rotation so far. Max is five hundred... :3

[Kindablue]

It's a cute cat.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm willing to be added to the list of people to Skype. I like making new friends.:smallsmile:

[Karen Lynn]

Ok, Mystic. Added. Also, I just realized your avvie is blushing.

[turkishproverb]

oooh...new thread!

Yay. Karen's back!


Also hi Turkish! *waves*


HI! *WAVES* :smallbiggrin:

[Mystic Muse]

Ok, Mystic. Added.

You lie! I have received no friend/contact request! I know, not what you meant. It's 2:40 AM, I'm allowed to intentionally misinterpret things for comedy.

[Irish Musician]

Ah, but I'm willing to Skype for any reason, not just board inappropriate topics. PMs are so slow... >.<

Also, I use a rotating avvie service. Hit refresh a few times and watch it change. I only have five avvies in rotation so far. Max is five hundred... :3
I can see any of them.....it is just blank space to me :smallfrown:

~Matthew~

[Eldest]

You lie! I have received no friend/contact request! I know, not what you meant. It's 2:40 AM, I'm allowed to intentionally misinterpret things for comedy.

Something this made me think of, anybody from this thread want my skype contact... thingie? Can't recall their name for it, on account of it nearly being 2am.

[Mina Kobold]

Ah, but I'm willing to Skype for any reason, not just board inappropriate topics. PMs are so slow... >.<

Also, I use a rotating avvie service. Hit refresh a few times and watch it change. I only have five avvies in rotation so far. Max is five hundred... :3

Aww, I can't see your avatars. :smallfrown:

*Tries to do a bat-exit too*

@Survey: Mrrr, so far those statistics sound horrible, but I hope the attention to the problems can do a bit to help. ^_^'


----------

Stealing the link-job again, there is a Kickstarter for an academic journal aimed at Transgender Studies (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tsq/tsq-transgender-studies-quarterly) going around. Thought it might be something people here might be interested in looking at. :smallsmile:

[Mystic Muse]

Something this made me think of, anybody from this thread want my skype contact... thingie? Can't recall their name for it, on account of it nearly being 2am.

I'll take yours and anybody else's who wants to give me theirs.

[FallenEco]

Hello again. Just checking in.

[SiuiS]

Ah, but I'm willing to Skype for any reason, not just board inappropriate topics. PMs are so slow... >.<

Also, I use a rotating avvie service. Hit refresh a few times and watch it change. I only have five avvies in rotation so far. Max is five hundred... :3

Neat! How does it operate?


You lie! I have received no friend/contact request!

The thread list, not the friend list, sweetie.


I can see any of them.....it is just blank space to me :smallfrown:

Do you have any ad blocking programs? They might target script which specifically displays other, cached graphics.


Hello again. Just checking in.

Hi there! Welcome back! Or forth? Forth. Welcome forth!

[Mystic Muse]

The thread list, not the friend list, sweetie.


Hence the white text.:smalltongue:

[Karen Lynn]

Signavatar.com

Way I understand it is that it keeps a cached pile of avvies and randomly plucks one every time the image address is polled. So, if five people load this page at the same time, maybe two of them will see the same avvie.

[Kindablue]

Cool op-ed piece. (http://nytimes.com/2013/05/17/opinion/how-latin-culture-got-more-gay.html)

-------

I always thought that purple and white avatar was a duck, Karen, and that the ear sticking up was its bill, but now that I'm paying attention enough to see that it's clearly a Pokemon like all the others, I can't even force myself to see the duck. I guess you don't know what you have until it's gone.

[Heliomance]

So I'm hopefully seeing neck girl again this evening :3

Should be fun. Going to see the Cirque du Soleil film with CircusSoc.

[Kittenwolf]

*Taps thread*
Seems structurally sound :)

Hiya!

[Philemonite]

Yay, new thread, hugs for all.:biggrin:

Nice to see you are back Karen.

[The Succubus]

So I'm hopefully seeing neck girl again this evening :3

Should be fun. Going to see the Cirque du Soleil film with CircusSoc.

*scritchy-scritchy* =3

[SiuiS]

Hey Noparlpf, [url=http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39c_1368515756[these guys go to a clinic to find out what giving birth feels like.[/url] [Warning] [joking sexism] [possible harsh language]

I find it relevant due to our discussing whether a male can even possibly experience it, or if an analogue was insufficient due to having the wrong neural paths for it. Thoughts?

[Socratov]

Siuis: I know this technique, some guys on television in the Netherlands did it as well (couple of months back). It was hilarious to see (and slightly painful to watch).

anyway, I'm not always on skype (due to internet shenanigans), but when I am I could lend a digital shoulder or 2 (sorry, don't have more). I recently heard (against all self perceived odds) that I'm a good listener and that I'm good at cheering people up... apparently people like when doing that :smallsmile: Oh, and my inbox is always open (as are various other forms of communication)

[Eirala]

Also, just a thought, we might want to say who's willing to talk on Skype in the list of list of people to contact (though not the Skype contact info itself, for me at least, since mine is literally my name). Anybody else think that's a good plan?

Aye, it's a good plan and i'm also willing to chat on Skype (no video or voice chat though).

[KenderWizard]

:smallfrown:

Tell Asta we miss him. Give him hugs for us.

:smallfrown:




*insert kind statement about that cool swedish guy who made those logical posts and had the cool avatar from Coffees Webcomic but I never really talked to him :smallfrown:*

Sending these on to Asta too.

Some links:
This is totally adorable. (http://zenpencils.com/comic/96-dr-seuss-those-who-mind-dont-matter/)I'm sure people have seen it before, but I think it's worth resharing.

I also found these gender business cards (http://feminishblog.tumblr.com/post/39268422030/asexual-not-a-sexual-these-are-the-companions) that you can give to people. I think it's kind of amazing and I want them. They also have sexuality ones.

[noparlpf]

v.v;; Awwww.... So much for my exit. In that case, I shall fix your grammar and add a marker to people willing to Skype! :3

Who was that again? >.<

I'm up for it.


Also, I use a rotating avvie service. Hit refresh a few times and watch it change. I only have five avvies in rotation so far. Max is five hundred... :3

Guess something in my browser doesn't like that. Haven't been able to see your avatar in ages.


Aww, I can't see your avatars. :smallfrown:

I can't see yours either, recently. Huh.


So I'm hopefully seeing neck girl again this evening :3

Should be fun. Going to see the Cirque du Soleil film with CircusSoc.

Sounds nice.


Hey Noparlpf, these guys go to a clinic to find out what giving birth feels like. (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=39c_1368515756) [Warning] [joking sexism] [possible harsh language]

I find it relevant due to our discussing whether a male can even possibly experience it, or if an analogue was insufficient due to having the wrong neural paths for it. Thoughts?

Huh, another of these? I saw one a while back. Technically it's not using quite the same muscles, but from the one I saw, it seems pretty uncomfortable. The guy whose idea it was quit midway through. I'm pretty sure having the option to quit is cheating.


Some links:
This is totally adorable. (http://zenpencils.com/comic/96-dr-seuss-those-who-mind-dont-matter/)I'm sure people have seen it before, but I think it's worth resharing.

I also found these gender business cards (http://feminishblog.tumblr.com/post/39268422030/asexual-not-a-sexual-these-are-the-companions) that you can give to people. I think it's kind of amazing and I want them. They also have sexuality ones.

Neat. Now I have to find the sexuality ones too.
Edit: Oh right. Found them (http://asexual-not-a-sexual.tumblr.com/post/26401763269/phew-there-we-go-ive-continued-the-sassy). I got slightly sidetracked. Hmm. I think I'll stick with explaining it at length with several tangents and backtrackings like I usually do. It lets me go more in-depth right off the bat.

[Lauren]

Just got home from the theatre and realised my hair is still in the braid that someone (*looks at Neo_Leviathan*) put it into earlier today (well, yesterday now). I thought I was the ninja hair-braider!

Also, the T is missing out of the thread title...

[Karen Lynn]

Oops. Fixed. I blame that on having been sleepy. :3

[Iruka]

Signavatar.com

Way I understand it is that it keeps a cached pile of avvies and randomly plucks one every time the image address is polled. So, if five people load this page at the same time, maybe two of them will see the same avvie.

I don't want to ruin your fun, but a cycling avatar might be against the forum rules. I remembered something along those lines and in the past other users apparently did so too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93115), though I can't find it in the rules or some direct comment from a Mod.

edit: Having looked at the gender business cards, I wondered if someone could explain the difference between neutrois and agender to me. I don't really see the difference between "I neither identify with male nor female." and "I identify with a gender that is neither female nore male."

[Heliomance]

Just got home from the theatre and realised my hair is still in the braid that someone (*looks at Neo_Leviathan*) put it into earlier today (well, yesterday now). I thought I was the ninja hair-braider!

Also, the T is missing out of the thread title...

I am confused. I recognise not your name or your avatar, but you speak like a thread regular. Have you recently changed name, or am I just being oblivious?

[Karen Lynn]

This was brought up to me off forum, and I will say it here.

As of this moment, there is nothing against it in the rules. If a Mod wants me to link back to a single static image for my avvie, I gladly will do so. Until a Mod says something, however, I'm going to continue seeing one of five different Eevees as my avvie.

[Mystic Muse]

Huh. I could see it on Google Chrome, but not that I'm firefox, I can't see it.:smallconfused:

[noparlpf]

edit: Having looked at the gender business cards, I wondered if someone could explain the difference between neutrois and agender to me. I don't really see the difference between "I neither identify with male nor female." and "I identify with a gender that is neither female nor male."

AVENwiki says agender (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Agender) is more like, "eh, I'm neither," and they might present as their sex or androgynously, and neutrois (http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Neutrois) is more like, "I'm neither and my body should be neither." There's a bit of a fine distinction in there I guess.


I don't really see the difference between "I neither identify with male nor female." and "I identify with a gender that is neither female nor male."

This doesn't just apply to agender vs. neutrois. The latter can be various things besides neutrois. The former just says, "I'm neither," whereas the latter says, "I'm something else," so that could apply to third-gender or genderqueer people too.

[Iruka]

This doesn't just apply to agender vs. neutrois. The latter can be various things besides neutrois. The former just says, "I'm neither," whereas the latter says, "I'm something else," so that could apply to third-gender or genderqueer people too.

Sure, that second sentence applies to a lot of other cases. I just paraphrased the card, where they used it ot explain neutrois. I guess they just did it for the sake of brevity.

[noparlpf]

Sure, that second sentence applies to a lot of other cases. I just paraphrased the card, where they used it ot explain neutrois. I guess they just did it for the sake of brevity.

Probably. Those cards are a bit too concise for my taste, which is why I said I'd stick to explaining at length and with many tangents. For example, none of the sexuality ones fits me perfectly, so I'd rather just explain it.
Edit: "I don't identify with any gender" is different from "I identify with a third gender somewhere between male and female." Although that's not quite what neutrois means to me so I dunno; that sounds more like androgyny to me.

[ScionoftheVoid]

I don't want to ruin your fun, but a cycling avatar might be against the forum rules. I remembered something along those lines and in the past other users apparently did so too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93115), though I can't find it in the rules or some direct comment from a Mod.

edit: Having looked at the gender business cards, I wondered if someone could explain the difference between neutrois and agender to me. I don't really see the difference between "I neither identify with male nor female." and "I identify with a gender that is neither female nore male."

I'm pretty sure people have gotten in trouble for continually-changing pictures in their signature before. It's 'cause it makes the mods' lives difficult in checking that all the pictures are forum-appropriate.

They are similar but, as far as I'm aware, being neutrois frequently involves transition (to a neutral sex, or as close as possible to one) where being agender doesn't. Also, the difference between those two statements is that one involves a gender outside of the binary and one involves no gender at all.

[Astrella]

I'm always available for providing support or just talking on Skype as well.


Some links:
This is totally adorable. (http://zenpencils.com/comic/96-dr-seuss-those-who-mind-dont-matter/)I'm sure people have seen it before, but I think it's worth resharing.

I also found these gender business cards (http://feminishblog.tumblr.com/post/39268422030/asexual-not-a-sexual-these-are-the-companions) that you can give to people. I think it's kind of amazing and I want them. They also have sexuality ones.

Both of those are neat. :)

[Urist]

THREAD WHYUCHANGESOFAST! God, you people are giving me whiplash... :smallsigh:

[Lix Lorn]

Huh. I could see it on Google Chrome, but not that I'm firefox, I can't see it.:smallconfused:
Me either.

Also, I think I forgot to subscribe last thread. Whoops.

[Chess435]

Put me down on the Skype list as well, I could always use more people to talk to. Also, power's getting turned back on Monday, largely in part to Sophia's help. :smallbiggrin:

[Irish Musician]

Do you have any ad blocking programs? They might target script which specifically displays other, cached graphics.
I am on Firefox as well, so maybe that has something to do with it, seems others are having problems with the firefox and that.

So I'm hopefully seeing neck girl again this evening :3

Should be fun. Going to see the Cirque du Soleil film with CircusSoc.
Whoooo :smallamused:

Me either.

Also, I think I forgot to subscribe last thread. Whoops.
LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Gets a running start and makes a flying GLOMPH*

~Matthew~

[Lix Lorn]

LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIXIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Gets a running start and makes a flying GLOMPH*

~Matthew~
(flies backwards, somersaults a'la tigger pounced)
@_@
There is a Matthew on top of me.

[noparlpf]

Do you have any ad blocking programs? They might target script which specifically displays other, cached graphics.

I tried disabling Adblock and it still doesn't show up. I think it's a Firefox issue.

[Irish Musician]

(flies backwards, somersaults a'la tigger pounced)
@_@
There is a Matthew on top of me.
*Is nose to nose with the Lixie*

....................Hi :smallsmile:

~Matthew~

[Lix Lorn]

...(blush!)

[Lentrax]

Lixie! Good to see you back, hon!

*Pulls Matthew off. Replaces with self. Provides gentle hug.*

How you been?

[Mina Kobold]

Some links:
This is totally adorable. (http://zenpencils.com/comic/96-dr-seuss-those-who-mind-dont-matter/)I'm sure people have seen it before, but I think it's worth resharing.

I also found these gender business cards (http://feminishblog.tumblr.com/post/39268422030/asexual-not-a-sexual-these-are-the-companions) that you can give to people. I think it's kind of amazing and I want them. They also have sexuality ones.

D'aww. ^_^

Those are really neat and I wish I could wear one. :3


edit: Having looked at the gender business cards, I wondered if someone could explain the difference between neutrois and agender to me. I don't really see the difference between "I neither identify with male nor female." and "I identify with a gender that is neither female nore male."

The way the cards explain it, being neutrois means you have a gender identity that is neutral (whether this applies to more than the female-male dynamic may depend on the individual, I think.), while being agender means you do not have any gender identity at all. Essentially, one is milk chocolate, which is neither dark nor white and the other is not chocolate at all. A bit imperfect as an analogy, but I hope it works. :smallsmile:


Oh, and I saw the Lixie! ^____^

*Joins the group-hugging of Lix*

Hi! :smallsmile:

[noparlpf]

The way the cards explain it, being neutrois means you have a gender identity that is neutral (whether this applies to more than the female-male dynamic may depend on the individual, I think.), while being agender means you do not have any gender identity at all. Essentially, one is milk chocolate, which is neither dark nor white and the other is not chocolate at all. A bit imperfect as an analogy, but I hope it works. :smallsmile:

The way I understand it, neutrois is a bit different from in-between-male-and-female, though.
Also, white chocolate is a completely different thing from milk or dark chocolate. Compare very-sweet-milky-chocolate to normal mid-range chocolate to very-dark-chocolate instead.

[Lix Lorn]

Lixie! Good to see you back, hon!

*Pulls Matthew off. Replaces with self. Provides gentle hug.*

How you been?
(Hugs)
xD
Deeply variable?


Oh, and I saw the Lixie! ^____^

*Joins the group-hugging of Lix*

Hi! :smallsmile:
Hi xD (is in a hugpile, hugs)


The way the cards explain it..
wait


-
:O
Ninja sensei?

[SaintRidley]

Oh, hey. Lixie's back. All is now right with the world.

I have been incredibly unproductive today. I think I'm finally feeling the end of the spring semester. At least I can be a little less busy over the summer. How about everybody else in school - doing well now that things are over/winding down?

[noparlpf]

Oh, hey. Lixie's back. All is now right with the world.

I have been incredibly unproductive today. I think I'm finally feeling the end of the spring semester. At least I can be a little less busy over the summer. How about everybody else in school - doing well now that things are over/winding down?

I have an exam Monday evening and three Tuesday. Then I get a week off (I was previously told it was two, but they were wrong) before summer semester starts. Whee.

[turkishproverb]

Me either.

Also, I think I forgot to subscribe last thread. Whoops.

Hey! Lix is back!

Hi Lix!


Those business cards...um...interesting.

[Lix Lorn]

Hey! Lix is back!

Hi Lix!
:smallredface:
Hi.

[Eldest]

Me either.

Also, I think I forgot to subscribe last thread. Whoops.

Ah, good, you're back.

*joins the group of people hugging*

[Lix Lorn]

@u@
(really appreciates attention)

[Selpharia]

Oh, hey, a Lixie, and a new thread!

I'm waiting for my last grade and then to start an internship on Monday. Should be fun.

~Laura

[Narasimha]

Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

[turkishproverb]

:smallredface:
Hi.

We're all glad to see you. :smallsmile:


Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.


Welcome! We're happy to meet you. What do you need to know?

Also, watch out for hugs: :smallwink:

[Chess435]

*Joins Lixie glomp-pile* :smallbiggrin:

[Lix Lorn]

We're all glad to see you. :smallsmile:
Mrr. :redface:
(deskhide)

[mistformsquirrl]

>.> Flying squirrel tackle hug technique, go! *glomps the entire thread*

(this is what happens when I start building my first Exalted character >.>)

[turkishproverb]

...Well. That happened.



Mrr. :redface:
(deskhide)


...We can still see you. :smallbiggrin:

[Karen Lynn]

Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

Welcome to the most colorful thread in the multiverse! Hugs available in all directions, possible hug traps baited with cookies, and a totally not suspicious at all plate of cookies are over there!

[Lix Lorn]

...We can still see you. :smallbiggrin:
would kinda ruin the secret point if you couldn't

[Chess435]

*Doesn't mention secret video camera mounted under the desk* :smallwink:

[Lauren]

I am confused. I recognise not your name or your avatar, but you speak like a thread regular. Have you recently changed name, or am I just being oblivious?

I only wandered in last thread.

[Kindablue]

Some interesting articles:

About a doctor imbedding himself in New York's underground gay sex culture to prevent a meningitus epidemic. (http://nytimes.com/2013/05/19/health/for-gay-men-a-fear-that-feels-familiar.html)

About the rise of LGBT retirement communities as the "Stonewall Generation" hits their 60s. (http://businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-16/the-gay-retiree-utopia)

[SaintRidley]

I've been watching Star Trek: The Next Generation again recently. It amazes me sometimes just how much they were trying to push forward on social issues. Just watched Season 5, Episode 7 "The Outcast", which tackles the question of society's response to transgender people (spoiler: society does not react positively and likes to use "therapy" to "cure" the "perversion," which Commander Riker is bold enough to oppose). It's a sad episode that ends unpleasantly, but I was surprised that such an episode existed in a late 80s/early 90s show.

[Absol197]

Hi new thread! Sorry for freaking out about people leaving last time!

A cousin of mine is coming in tomorrow, and I'm probably going to have to talk to her. I don't know her very well, so I have no idea how it's going to go. Wish me luck...


~Phoenix~

[mistformsquirrl]

@Saint_Ridley - That's something I've always loved in Trek hehe; they're not perfect, they often do cringeworthy things... but they try, even when the topic is uncomfortable/unpopular.

Granted, sometimes it works better than others >.>; but I appreciate the effort.

Of course I also appreciate starships exploding so I may be slightly biased.


---

In unrelated news: today has been stinky >,< I've had a headache all day, spent most of it banging away at Exalted trying to build a character (and still not really comprehending the system) - and that's making me feel incredibly dumb.

I'm also mulling over telling my best friend about my genderwhatchamacallit situation. I know it seems weird to have told people I've mostly just met online but not my best friend ><; but... I worry. I worry that I'm going to say something stupid and she'll finally have reason to stop putting up with me <_ _> Not that she's ever given a hint of actually being that way, but I'm paranoid about it. She already knows I'm bi and was OK with that <>.<> so maybe this wouldn't be a big deal but ><; /fear/worry/self-loathing/gaaaaaah

Thanks again everyone for just... being here honestly. Just having a place I can vent about this without being scared out of my wits is proving immensely helpful <>.<> *hugs thread*

[SaintRidley]

@Saint_Ridley - That's something I've always loved in Trek hehe; they're not perfect, they often do cringeworthy things... but they try, even when the topic is uncomfortable/unpopular.

Granted, sometimes it works better than others >.>; but I appreciate the effort.

Of course I also appreciate starships exploding so I may be slightly biased.




Yeah, that's what I love about Star Trek. So much love for that show.




In unrelated news: today has been stinky >,< I've had a headache all day, spent most of it banging away at Exalted trying to build a character (and still not really comprehending the system) - and that's making me feel incredibly dumb.

I'm also mulling over telling my best friend about my genderwhatchamacallit situation. I know it seems weird to have told people I've mostly just met online but not my best friend ><; but... I worry. I worry that I'm going to say something stupid and she'll finally have reason to stop putting up with me <_ _> Not that she's ever given a hint of actually being that way, but I'm paranoid about it. She already knows I'm bi and was OK with that <>.<> so maybe this wouldn't be a big deal but ><; /fear/worry/self-loathing/gaaaaaah

Thanks again everyone for just... being here honestly. Just having a place I can vent about this without being scared out of my wits is proving immensely helpful <>.<> *hugs thread*

Have a hug. Your friend sounds like a good friend. Give it a shot. I'm sure she'll understand and be supportive.

[Zweisteine]

After reading through some of your archives, I have decided to state my support of all LGBTetc people and their plight. :smile:
And I am willing to lend you my robot army, should you ever need it.
Reading those archives almost makes me sad I don't have to deal with so many issues in my life, so I could experience firsthand the kindness I have seen so often here, but so rarely elsewhere.
Was that an insensitive thing to say?

Trekkie nitpick:

Just watched Season 5, Episode 7 "The Outcast", which tackles the question of society's response to transgender people (spoiler: society does not react positively and likes to use "therapy" to "cure" the "perversion."
Technically, it tackles the issues of "abnormal" sexuality and gender identity (the race is genderless, and they see gender identity as a sickness, which they treat by removing any sign of it by force).

[Kindablue]

*hugs squirrl* I agree with Ridley; good luck!

[Eldest]

In unrelated news: today has been stinky >,< I've had a headache all day, spent most of it banging away at Exalted trying to build a character (and still not really comprehending the system) - and that's making me feel incredibly dumb.

I'm also mulling over telling my best friend about my genderwhatchamacallit situation. I know it seems weird to have told people I've mostly just met online but not my best friend ><; but... I worry. I worry that I'm going to say something stupid and she'll finally have reason to stop putting up with me <_ _> Not that she's ever given a hint of actually being that way, but I'm paranoid about it. She already knows I'm bi and was OK with that <>.<> so maybe this wouldn't be a big deal but ><; /fear/worry/self-loathing/gaaaaaah

Thanks again everyone for just... being here honestly. Just having a place I can vent about this without being scared out of my wits is proving immensely helpful <>.<> *hugs thread*

I would offer help with the character, but I know D&D and GURPS and that's about it. So sorry. But on the other fronts, hopefully I can be of more aid.

First, I'm not suprised that you came out online before in real life: online is far, far safer. But just so you know, everyone I consider a friend that I've told about being bi has said a combination of either "congradulations" or "why should I care?", only with the second in a good way. It in no way changes their opinion of me, and I'm happy for it, but I do understand the fear of it going badly. So think of talking to us as a trial run, ok? Secondly, being a support group is basically what the thread's main purpose is. So being here to vent to, or offer advice, or other support, that's what people are here for. And we're all awesome.

On other news, since Narasima was too lazy to mention this stuff himself, he's cismale, straight, an ally, and a friend of mine.

[SaintRidley]

Trekkie nitpick:

Technically, it tackles the issues of "abnormal" sexuality and gender identity (the race is genderless, and they see gender identity as a sickness, which they treat by removing any sign of it by force).

Well, yes. But it's also doing its damnedest to be analogous to transgender identity without having to use that term (probably wouldn't have been possible to air if it did). I didn't figure it was important to go so deeply into the precise situation in the show, given the obvious analogy.

[Zweisteine]

I didn't figure it was important to go so deeply into the precise situation in the show.
<- Trekkie with a small case of OCD. :smallwink:
Also, the show's message can apply to anyone with a sexual orientation/gender identity that is not considered the norm in their society. Transgender is just the most directly similar.

[SiuiS]

Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

Hi! Welcome.


Some interesting articles:

About a doctor imbedding himself in New York's underground gay sex culture to prevent a meningitus epidemic. (http://nytimes.com/2013/05/19/health/for-gay-men-a-fear-that-feels-familiar.html)

About the rise of LGBT retirement communities as the "Stonewall Generation" hits their 60s. (http://businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-16/the-gay-retiree-utopia)

Neat! Will read.


Hi new thread! Sorry for freaking out about people leaving last time!

hey hon. All good! Good luck with your cousin, hope things go smooth!


After reading through some of your archives, I have decided to state my support of all LGBTetc people and their plight. :smile:
And I am willing to lend you my robot army, should you ever need it.
Reading those archives almost makes me sad I don't have to deal with so many issues in my life, so I could experience firsthand the kindness I have seen so often here, but so rarely elsewhere.
Was that an insensitive thing to say?

Aww, you don't need to be hurt to feel better silly! Kindness is infectious. Spread it and it will return! Like that cold you ha with the whooping torso cavity and the dry ache, only without those bad things!

I don't think it was insensitive, but I do think its a little bit of backwards thinking/silly or misguided. It maintains zero-sum, where you lose out and then gain; why not just gain? Entropy is a dirty lie, and everything should be better because it can be better. Happiness for all!

[Astrella]

Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

Hello~

Hope you enjoy your stay.


Some interesting articles:

About a doctor imbedding himself in New York's underground gay sex culture to prevent a meningitus epidemic. (http://nytimes.com/2013/05/19/health/for-gay-men-a-fear-that-feels-familiar.html)

About the rise of LGBT retirement communities as the "Stonewall Generation" hits their 60s. (http://businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-16/the-gay-retiree-utopia)

I don't really have time to read them now so I'll just add that I wish a bit more attention was paid in the mainstream to queer homelessness and elders.


I'm also mulling over telling my best friend about my genderwhatchamacallit situation. I know it seems weird to have told people I've mostly just met online but not my best friend ><; but... I worry. I worry that I'm going to say something stupid and she'll finally have reason to stop putting up with me <_ _> Not that she's ever given a hint of actually being that way, but I'm paranoid about it. She already knows I'm bi and was OK with that <>.<> so maybe this wouldn't be a big deal but ><; /fear/worry/self-loathing/gaaaaaah

Thanks again everyone for just... being here honestly. Just having a place I can vent about this without being scared out of my wits is proving immensely helpful <>.<> *hugs thread*

I don't think it's weird. For me most people who know are still my online friends and it's still hard for me to go about telling people in real life. She does sound like she'd probably react well, so I'd consider doing it when you feel ready. :smallsmile:


After reading through some of your archives, I have decided to state my support of all LGBTetc people and their plight. :smile:
And I am willing to lend you my robot army, should you ever need it.
Reading those archives almost makes me sad I don't have to deal with so many issues in my life, so I could experience firsthand the kindness I have seen so often here, but so rarely elsewhere.
Was that an insensitive thing to say?

Trekkie nitpick:

Technically, it tackles the issues of "abnormal" sexuality and gender identity (the race is genderless, and they see gender identity as a sickness, which they treat by removing any sign of it by force).

Hi~


Hi new thread! Sorry for freaking out about people leaving last time!

A cousin of mine is coming in tomorrow, and I'm probably going to have to talk to her. I don't know her very well, so I have no idea how it's going to go. Wish me luck...


~Phoenix~

Hi again, Phoenix. *hugs*

Don't worry about it! I hope it goes well with your cousin and that your parents don't act too difficult about it all.

[Lentrax]

Hi new thread! Sorry for freaking out about people leaving last time!

A cousin of mine is coming in tomorrow, and I'm probably going to have to talk to her. I don't know her very well, so I have no idea how it's going to go. Wish me luck...


~Phoenix~

Hi Phee! Good luck with your cousin. We'll all be here wanting to hear how it was.

[Philemonite]

Greetings old and new (in thread time) people I have not met yet.:smalltongue:
It is great to meet you.

Kittens again

My dad managed to take a photo of the new ones
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/138/9/1/img_20130518_174204_by_asteronquestar-d65pob8.jpg
We are keeping the white one, it is so cute.
My friend told me that they have weaker immunity, so we will have to be carefull with him/her.

So, we are accepting straight cis people here?
How nice of us.:smallwink:

[Kindablue]

So, we are accepting straight cis people here?
How nice of us.:smallwink:

I thought it was your turn to watch the door, with your whole screaming barbarian and hand... hand on fire. What is that?

ETA: "Cruising" with Al Pacino—I knew that NYT story reminded me of a movie but couldn't place it. Just replace "doctor" with "cop" and "meningitus" with "murderer" and it's still kind of a stretch. I saw "Dog Day Afternoon" (also starring Pacino, so this is all vaugly connected) for the first time a few days ago, and I was surprised at how well it treats the transgender character. I mean, still pretty bad, but it never seemed really dismissive or hateful to me, just ignorant.

[Mono Vertigo]

Welcome to the newcomers! Enjoy your stay. :smallsmile:
Ohmagad kittens again awwwwww

[Heliomance]

Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

We haven't seen our resident alien for a long time, actually. Anyone know what's happened to Golly?

[The Succubus]

I see him occasionally on Steam. Haven't spoken to him for a while though.

[KenderWizard]

After reading through some of your archives, I have decided to state my support of all LGBTetc people and their plight. :smile:

Hello! We're not all plight and doom. I think being queer is pretty awesome. But we do love support! :smallbiggrin:


Hey there guys (and gals. And guygals. and aliens. and monsters. and all those I haven't mentioned.)
I'm relatively new to this sort of thing, so please take care of me. Thank you for your time.

Hello to you too! We'll do our best to take care of you. :smallsmile:


Lixie, Asta left. If you look in the last few pages of the last thread, you'll see my posts about it. But he specifically asked me to tell you that he is, and always will be, your friend.

[noparlpf]

I've been watching Star Trek: The Next Generation again recently. It amazes me sometimes just how much they were trying to push forward on social issues. Just watched Season 5, Episode 7 "The Outcast", which tackles the question of society's response to transgender people (spoiler: society does not react positively and likes to use "therapy" to "cure" the "perversion," which Commander Riker is bold enough to oppose). It's a sad episode that ends unpleasantly, but I was surprised that such an episode existed in a late 80s/early 90s show.

Neat. I've been meaning to watch TNG for like, years now...


A cousin of mine is coming in tomorrow, and I'm probably going to have to talk to her. I don't know her very well, so I have no idea how it's going to go. Wish me luck...

~Phoenix~

Good luck. Meeting family you don't really know is weird.


In unrelated news: today has been stinky >,< I've had a headache all day, spent most of it banging away at Exalted trying to build a character (and still not really comprehending the system) - and that's making me feel incredibly dumb.

I'm also mulling over telling my best friend about my genderwhatchamacallit situation. I know it seems weird to have told people I've mostly just met online but not my best friend ><; but... I worry. I worry that I'm going to say something stupid and she'll finally have reason to stop putting up with me <_ _> Not that she's ever given a hint of actually being that way, but I'm paranoid about it. She already knows I'm bi and was OK with that <>.<> so maybe this wouldn't be a big deal but ><; /fear/worry/self-loathing/gaaaaaah

Thanks again everyone for just... being here honestly. Just having a place I can vent about this without being scared out of my wits is proving immensely helpful <>.<> *hugs thread*

If she's fine with bisexuality she's probably cool with this too. Try not to worry too much about it, if you can help it. If you're really scared, try sounding her out first. Bring up the idea of genderwhatchamacallit being a thing in the first place.
(And nah, it's not weird to tell people online. The internet is largely anonymous and this is a support thread specifically for this purpose.)


We haven't seen our resident alien for a long time, actually. Anyone know what's happened to Golly?

I was wondering that recently.

[Socratov]

So, we are accepting straight cis people here?
How nice of us.:smallwink:


I thought it was your turn to watch the door, with your whole screaming barbarian and hand... hand on fire. What is that?


Hahaaaa! You will never catch me sneaking in :smallamused::smallcool:

Anyway, *dives into lixieglomp* *snuggles* Long time no see :smalltongue:

[mistformsquirrl]

Thanks everyone <~_~>; I shouldn't be so nervous; she's a very good friend who's been a great support to me; and hasn't been judgy toward me at all in anything >.<; I think I will tell her. Besides, she's probably figured me out by now lol - she'd already figured that I was bi over a year before I told her >.<; surely this can't be that surprising.

[Karen Lynn]

Of course we're accepting of heteronormative cis-people. They fall on the spectrum of gender- and sexual- identities as well.

[Lix Lorn]

Hahaaaa! You will never catch me sneaking in :smallamused::smallcool:

Anyway, *dives into lixieglomp* *snuggles* Long time no see :smalltongue:
Ack! o///////o


Thanks everyone <~_~>; I shouldn't be so nervous; she's a very good friend who's been a great support to me; and hasn't been judgy toward me at all in anything >.<; I think I will tell her. Besides, she's probably figured me out by now lol - she'd already figured that I was bi over a year before I told her >.<; surely this can't be that surprising.
Two of my best friends replied to me coming out with 'Oh, that makes sense.'

[mistformsquirrl]

That's precisely the reaction I'm hoping for lol >.<

[Lix Lorn]

Good luck! :smallsmile:

[noparlpf]

I was just reading an article on some guy's theory about why straight men (generally) like breasts/why breasts are involved in foreplay in humans but not in other species. It actually specified "straight men", from the first line. That's neat. Edit: Though they should probably have said "straight and bisexual men" or "gynosexual men" or something. But hey it's better than just assuming all men are into women.
I happen across all kinds of weird things on the internet.

[turkishproverb]

After reading through some of your archives, I have decided to state my support of all LGBTetc people and their plight. :smile:

Hi! *waves*

[WarKitty]

Kittens again



Ohmagad kittens again awwwwww

Did someone call?

[Mystic Muse]

Lixie, Asta left. If you look in the last few pages of the last thread, you'll see my posts about it. But he specifically asked me to tell you that he is, and always will be, your friend.

So, Lix is a female captain Kirk, and Asta is Spock?

[Lix Lorn]

Lixie, Asta left. If you look in the last few pages of the last thread, you'll see my posts about it. But he specifically asked me to tell you that he is, and always will be, your friend.
:smallfrown:
Thanks for telling me.

[ZippoMoon]

Hey all, maybe you can help me. I'm a homophobic of the "recognized as irrational" brand, and was hoping any of you could help me come up with a way to get over it, that doesn't require me to pay by the hour.

[Lentrax]

So, Lix is a female captain Kirk, and Asta is Spock?

Does that make me an Orion slave girl? Cause I'm totally cool with that... :smallamused:

[Philemonite]

Hey all, maybe you can help me. I'm a homophobic of the "recognized as irrational" brand, and was hoping any of you could help me come up with a way to get over it, that doesn't require me to pay by the hour.

And on a side note. MYSTIC MUSE! WHERE. IS. MY. GRIFFIN?


We can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional

I can offer my opinion, but that would be best left for PMs, if you are interested.

[ZippoMoon]

I can offer my opinion, but that would be best left for PMs, if you are interested.

Yes please!

[noparlpf]

I don't see it as medical advice, but yeah, you can PM me if you want to talk about it out-of-thread.

[Eldest]

Thirding the above. PM if you want to talk. I prefer Skype, since I'd rather take this off-site as well, both because of it being iffy with the forum rules and because of much faster response time.

[Urist]

I am also available for PM's about this; I've helped some friends deal with the same.

[Mina Kobold]

Hey all, maybe you can help me. I'm a homophobic of the "recognized as irrational" brand, and was hoping any of you could help me come up with a way to get over it, that doesn't require me to pay by the hour.

Best advice I can give is exposure. Try to talk to people you know are homosexual or read/watch/listen to/etc. works that involve homosexuality, whether it is in the shape of discussing it or just having characters that happen to be so. Not necessarily much of it, but the more one experiences something as normal... well, the more normal it seems. :smallsmile:

I do not have much experience with that, though, so take my advice with a grain of salt, and perhaps curry. That should be delicious. :3


@Squirrl: Hope your friend is amazing and wonderful about it, good luck! ^_^

Oh, and welcome to Killed and everybody else I forgot! :smallsmile:

[Sparkify]

Of course we're accepting of heteronormative cis-people. They fall on the spectrum of gender- and sexual- identities as well.

They aren't Gender, Sexuality, or Romantic Minorities, though. Unless they're graysexual, asexual, etc.

[Mystic Muse]

They aren't Gender, Sexuality, or Romantic Minorities, though. Unless they're graysexual, asexual, etc.

Excluding others isn't going to get us anywhere though. "Do unto others as you would do unto yourself" and all of that.

Really, that's the best way to get just about anything in life, at least in general. Treat others politely, and often they're willing to do the same back.

[Narasimha]

Excluding others isn't going to get us anywhere though. "Do unto others as you would do unto yourself" and all of that.

Really, that's the best way to get just about anything in life, at least in general. Treat others politely, and often they're willing to do the same back.

When you get right down to it, everyone's still a person (give or take). We all bleed red (again, give or take.) Besides, as those of you who will get to know me may understand, I'm a humanist. I make fun of everyone equally. Thats my way of spreading the love.

[Socratov]

They aren't Gender, Sexuality, or Romantic Minorities, though. Unless they're graysexual, asexual, etc.


Excluding others isn't going to get us anywhere though. "Do unto others as you would do unto yourself" and all of that.

Really, that's the best way to get just about anything in life, at least in general. Treat others politely, and often they're willing to do the same back.

and who knows, they might be nice people (trying) to help you along and good to talk to :smallredface:

[Sparkify]

{Scrubbed}

[Castaras]

Sparkify: How have we done this? Could you explain further, give examples, so we don't do it again?

And what's an SRM? Not terminology I'm familiar with.

[Socratov]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I am terribly sorry if my efforts to decrease my ignorance have offended you, but could you tell me (along with Castaras) what I have done wrong? I mean, if you can tell me it will be a learning opportunity for me...

[Eldest]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

You are aware that when I joined the thread, I thought I was straight, correct? By your definition, I would not be part of this group. Further, I would actually be kinda irked for being excluded, in spite of being a supporter, simply because I was assumed to be an opressor and shut out before I could say otherwise. I, also, would like some examples of cis heterosexuals in this thread doing these things, preferably with links if you could. If that's not too much trouble, the thread number would work, and then I'd look through for it.

On to the specifics, in what way has Narasima treated anybody impolitely?

[Astrella]

Excluding others isn't going to get us anywhere though. "Do unto others as you would do unto yourself" and all of that.

Really, that's the best way to get just about anything in life, at least in general. Treat others politely, and often they're willing to do the same back.

That isn't excluding though? Straightness and cisgenderedness aren't prejudiced and discriminated against, that's just a fact. That doesn't mean anyone should be barred from posting here though! But I don't think acknowledging that certain things are discriminated against and others is exclusionary.

Edit; I do think that's it's important to be sensitive about what questions you ask and to think them through, but that's something that's true in general I feel.

[Socratov]

That isn't excluding though? Straightness and cisgenderedness aren't prejudiced and discriminated against, that's just a fact. That doesn't mean anyone should be barred from posting here though! But I don't think acknowledging that certain things are discriminated against and others is exclusionary.
emphasis mine. My point is that Mystic muse is right: if you don't want to be excluded by others, odn't exclude them unless they give you reason for it (willfull nastyness is an example)

Edit; I do think that's it's important to be sensitive about what questions you ask and to think them through, but that's something that's true in general I feel.

true, but some people are not sensitive by nature or just plain ignorant. i for one was ignoratn like a baby when it came to LGBT issues when I first posted in the LGBT thread (some iterations ago). Now I cannot claim to have gained the full wisdom, but At the very least my ignorance has been tempered a bit into either blunt curiosity or scratching the surface level of knowledge. I honestly think that the last thing you can exclude or criticise someone for is ignorance. The fact that ignorant peopel are willing to post here means they take an active measure in seeking knowledge. they may appear insensitive at first because they dont know what could be a sensitive thing or topic for someone. it's like in DnD where they are learning to make those search DC's to find the spaced they can tread on and which not (triggering hurtful feelings). I think as long as someone is willing to apologise for their accidental inseisitiveness that someone shouldn't be citicised but told what they did wrong and why. give peopelthe opportunity to learn from their mistake and you will see the world will appear a lot brighter.

PS: sorry for the rant but not only on LGBT topics but others as well (which I will not name) I have seen people blaming ignorant people for their lack of knowledge resulting in a situation that is awkward and plain nasty with people blaming each other into a chicken and egg debate and I'd hate for that to happen here...

[Sparkify]

And what's an SRM? Not terminology I'm familiar with.
Sexuality || Romantic Minority, I had already talked about the G in GSRM so it didn't follow to repeat.

I am terribly sorry if my efforts to decrease my ignorance have offended you, but could you tell me (along with Castaras) what I have done wrong? I mean, if you can tell me it will be a learning opportunity for me...
there's plenty of resources to educate yourself. wiki, aven, etc. your efforts to decrease your ignorance should be heralded, but it's not the M's responsibility to directly educate you and asking as much is insulting.

You are aware that when I joined the thread, I thought I was straight, correct? By your definition, I would not be part of this group. Further, I would actually be kinda irked for being excluded, in spite of being a supporter, simply because I was assumed to be an opressor and shut out before I could say otherwise. I, also, would like some examples of cis heterosexuals in this thread doing these things, preferably with links if you could. If that's not too much trouble, the thread number would work, and then I'd look through for it.

On to the specifics, in what way has Narasima treated anybody impolitely?
If you thought you were straight when you joined this thread, there was probs some unconscious part of you that knew you were bi which is what attracted you here. no straight guy downloads grindr for serious reasons, etc. and you're still an oppressor on the cis-axis, and probably a romantic one (idk how you identify) i've got my best queers on the thread #s

nara-o was p impolite in mentioning guys first. why did you bring him up? idk how he identifies.

[Kindablue]

Excluding the oppressors makes this a safe space, although I guess it's not supposed to be safe. The only thing I've seen cishets do here are be really offensive and insensitive to gender-minority people (gender-changing rings, referring to Natalie Reed as something she's not, etc) as well as the SRMs. Treating them politely wouldn't be a problem if we were being treated politely.

No, excluding the oppressors is against the forum rules. Also you sound like a character in a silent movie about the French Revolution—I know this isn't helping the image of cispeople being rude that you have, but lighten up a little. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

[WarKitty]

Random question: What's the best way to go about indicating when someone has misgendered a trans* person in a place you don't know how accepting people are? I'm assuming of course that you know the person is out.

[Sparkify]

No, excluding the oppressors is against the forum rules. Also you sound like a character in a silent movie about the French Revolution—I know this isn't helping the image of cispeople being rude that you have, but lighten up a little. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

thanks for the personal attack! that's cool.
this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14270577&postcount=1271)was a p egregious example

[SiuiS]

Hey all, maybe you can help me. I'm a homophobic of the "recognized as irrational" brand, and was hoping any of you could help me come up with a way to get over it, that doesn't require me to pay by the hour.

Sure, but PMs would be best, if only because it's a topic that gets ugly fast, even by accident.


They aren't Gender, Sexuality, or Romantic Minorities, though. Unless they're graysexual, asexual, etc.

Actually, no. Scratch that. I have to agree with Sparkify in vague theory.


{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Define "the oppressors". Because a person isn't one until they oppress. I do believe this should be a less volatile place, given the number of people I've scared away my own self, but being acidic isn't the key.

I have seen people be rude and offensive to people, but that has nothing to do with trans/cis or hetero/homo divides. Since thread eighteen, the only person to actively cross someone on those lines was me (and you, kind of), and mostly by accident. Surely you wouldn't toss a transsexual to the dogs for saying something heteronormative every now and then?


No, excluding the oppressors is against the forum rules. Also you sound like a character in a silent movie about the French Revolution—I know this isn't helping the image of cispeople being rude that you have, but lighten up a little. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

... You're straight? I'm so confused...
I thought you hated bees?


thanks for the personal attack! that's cool.
this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14270577&postcount=1271)was a p egregious example

be that as it may, that has nothing to do with trans/cis split. a trassexual or homosexual with the same science rooting would say the same thing. What you are asking for is censorship and a double standard.

I also severely doubt that was a personal attack, unless cishet counts as a slur, alongside "the Oppressors".


And can we please not hold Asta Kask up as a bad example, especially now? He's a stalwart ally (and no, i don't mean that in the campy label sense) and deserves as much respect as not cutting him down when he leaves because these arguments over technicalities cut him to the soul.

[Eldest]

Sexuality || Romantic Minority, I had already talked about the G in GSRM so it didn't follow to repeat.

there's plenty of resources to educate yourself. wiki, aven, etc. your efforts to decrease your ignorance should be heralded, but it's not the M's responsibility to directly educate you and asking as much is insulting.

If you thought you were straight when you joined this thread, there was probs some unconscious part of you that knew you were bi which is what attracted you here. no straight guy downloads grindr for serious reasons, etc. and you're still an oppressor on the cis-axis, and probably a romantic one (idk how you identify) i've got my best queers on the thread #s

nara-o was p impolite in mentioning guys first. why did you bring him up? idk how he identifies.

So, to clairify, if I am not a trans* individual, I am oppressing them, in your view? Please explain why you think that, then.

No, I came here because somebody I consider my sister, regardless of blood, is pan.

And, as I explained, Narasima (assuming that's who you are refering to with nara-o) is hetero, cis, etc. I disagree that listing males before females in his greeting was rude, though.

[The Succubus]

I think I'll leave this thread be. As a cis-mostly-straight person, I don't really fit in to the minorities and I don't want to be seen as invading because although she's not being particularly pleasant about it, Sparkify is right in LGBT folks needing a space for themselves.

I'll still be on the boards if folks want to chat though. :smallsmile:

[Astrella]

So, to clairify, if I am not a trans* individual, I am oppressing them, in your view? Please explain why you think that, then.

No, I came here because somebody I consider my sister, regardless of blood, is pan.

And, as I explained, Narasima (assuming that's who you are refering to with nara-o) is hetero, cis, etc. I disagree that listing males before females in his greeting was rude, though.

I think she means that it's important to recognize that your cis identity is seen as more valid than trans* people's identities by society at large, and it's important I think to recognize and ideally fight the many ways in which society constantly perpetuates cissexist views.

[Urist]

I can see the point of excluding cis-hetero people from the thread on an abstract level; it does make sense to attempt to create a safe space. However, there a few reasons that make it both impractical, and damaging.

1. It is against forum rules to be exclusionary. We just can't do that. If an individual poster does something against the rules, the post can be reported and dealt with that way.

2. Other than repeatedly posting "Cis people get out, hetero's not welcome", we have no way to enforce this, and so the policy is impractical at best.

3. If we're kicking people out based on being oppressors, what's the qualitative difference that separates one oppressive class from another? I, as a cis-gender bisexual male, am privileged and part of an oppressive class on two different axes; does that mean I shouldn't post here?

At the end of the day, it is a little disconcerting to see non GSM people posting here, but its not disconcerting in a scary way or a bad way, unless those people are bad people. Until then, we have no way or right to tell them they can't post here, IMO.

[SiuiS]

I think she means that it's important to recognize that your cis identity is seen as more valid than trans* people's identities by society at large, and it's important I think to recognize and ideally fight the many ways in which society constantly perpetuates cissexist views.

There is a chasm of difference between a cis identity being more valid, and a cis identity inherently keeping the transfolks down. This is, basically, slander - That by your existence you make my life worse, so you need to leave. That's racism, sexism, classissm, etc. all in one, and it's terrible to propogate even if it's "okay, because since it isn't institutionalised it isn't real prejudice".


But, that's enough on that line. I've used you fine gals and guys and golentans as a personal philosophy sounding board too much, and as a support thread too little, and have directly contributed to scaring off at least two people. I think I will follow suit, and only post if I have something topical and positive. Thanks for the help I've gotten from you all. :smallsmile:.

The Succubus, hold the door for me on the way out, will you?

[Kindablue]

thanks for the personal attack! that's cool.
this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14270577&postcount=1271)was a p egregious example
I live to please.

And I agreed with most of that post. The bad joke at the end was offcolor and callously said, but he retracted it. You're under no obligation to be forgiving or merciful to others, but I would suggest it.


... You're straight? I'm so confused...
I thought you hated bees?
Just those awful spider hawks.

[WarKitty]

I think I'll leave this thread be. As a cis-mostly-straight person, I don't really fit in to the minorities and I don't want to be seen as invading because although she's not being particularly pleasant about it, Sparkify is right in LGBT folks needing a space for themselves.

I'll still be on the boards if folks want to chat though. :smallsmile:

Aww, but...some of us non-straight people wanted to continue staring at you!

[noparlpf]

They aren't Gender, Sexuality, or Romantic Minorities, though. Unless they're graysexual, asexual, etc.


Excluding the oppressors makes this a safe space, although I guess it's not supposed to be safe. The only thing I've seen cishets do here are be really offensive and insensitive to gender-minority people (gender-changing rings, referring to Natalie Reed as something she's not, etc) as well as the SRMs. Treating them politely wouldn't be a problem if we were being treated politely.

We are supposed to be a support thread, primarily for LGBTA+ people to discuss issues in a relatively safe environment, and secondarily for Allies looking for information—that's also a kind of support related to LGBTA+ issues.


thanks for the personal attack! that's cool.
this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14270577&postcount=1271)was a p egregious example

I mean this as constructive criticism: You do sound kind of like the straw feminist, except instead of "all men are awful", you're saying "all cissexual or heterosexual people are awful". You might want to tone that down if you don't want to alienate the majority of society, including a large portion of the GSRM groups.
I don't really want to pick apart Asta's posts when he's not around, but he did apologise for that last line, which was clearly said in frustration. The rest of it isn't bad, it's just from a clinical perspective.
Also, please use full words.


I think she means that it's important to recognize that your cis identity is seen as more valid than trans* people's identities by society at large, and it's important I think to recognize and ideally fight the many ways in which society constantly perpetuates cissexist views.

Yeah, but to say that an ally is an "oppressor" despite showing support to the LGBTA+ movements and attempting to fight said cissexism is just prejudice talking. I am not saying she is doing this, but it does sound kind of like ally-bashing or the "die-cis-scum" stuff.


Edit: Oh yeah, Sparkify, and "cishets"? I'm pretty sure there are better ways to say what you mean by that without it sounding like a slur.

[Lix Lorn]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.

This thread does not need to be a safe place. Why? This FORUM is a safe place. If someone's sexist or homophobic to you, you report the post and the mods will come down on them like the fist of an angry god.

This thread is for LGBTAetc people to get support in. A lot of that support, by sheer weight of numbers, comes from cis, straight people. This is not a problem.

If this kind of argument has been going on for a while, then maybe not subscribing last thread wasn't an accident.

[Urist]

I agree with Lix, here; no need to alienate people who have been nothing but polite or friendly in their time here, barring a few mistakes. If someone does end up being awful, reporting is a thing, but until then, this discussion doesn't even have to happen.

[noparlpf]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.

This thread does not need to be a safe place. Why? This FORUM is a safe place. If someone's sexist or homophobic to you, you report the post and the mods will come down on them like the fist of an angry god.

This thread is for LGBTAetc people to get support in. A lot of that support, by sheer weight of numbers, comes from cis, straight people. This is not a problem.

If this kind of argument has been going on for a while, then maybe not subscribing last thread wasn't an accident.

Last thread it was about medicine and stuff, I think. Which was partially my fault by asking about medical ethics. The argument over whether cis or straight people should be allowed just started up.

[SiuiS]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.

This thread does not need to be a safe place. Why? This FORUM is a safe place. If someone's sexist or homophobic to you, you report the post and the mods will come down on them like the fist of an angry god.

This thread is for LGBTAetc people to get support in. A lot of that support, by sheer weight of numbers, comes from cis, straight people. This is not a problem.

If this kind of argument has been going on for a while, then maybe not subscribing last thread wasn't an accident.

I'm still around, honey. But given my contrariness, stubbornness, vanity, egocentricism... I've chased Starmark off twice. Probably contriuted to Karen's departure. feel responsible for th ewave which swept out Golentan, Nix Nihila, Skeppio. I've been a worse person since an off-site debacle, and losing my voice, synesthesia wise, hasn't helped me warm up psychologically. I need to zen a bit. Get back to my pony roots.

That's not going to happen if my narcissism pulls me into another righteous debate or nitpick over a technicality or paradigm.

*hugs!*

[ScionoftheVoid]

I do think Sparkify has a point. I've often felt uncomfortable about things, but not enough to bring them up again after the conversation had moved on, and that has frequently been due to straight cismen's comments (frequently on the apparent attractiveness of actresses/female celebrities, as if it's a thing that actually matters).
Also, being on the oppressive side of a binary does kind of make one an oppressor unless one specifically opts out of that and challenges the active and passive oppression that group causes. I'm not very good at this, myself, but I recognise that and I am guilty about it. EDIT: Forgot to add why: implicit support can be as bad as actual support. If there's a crowd of similar people, some of whom are being offensive, but none of whom are opposing this, those offensive few can and will assume that everyone else in the crowd was agreeing with them. Not everyone has the courage to be the voice in opposition, but that's just more reason for those who are to lead the way.

However, we aren't mods and can't put limits on who comes into and posts in the thread. I, usually, trust the mods here to be good enough that we don't have to be. Let people speak for themselves - if you find a problem with something then either call them out or use the report and ignore functions (no, we shouldn't have to and they should know better. This isn't a forum where that can happen, unfortunately, as good as it is).
Diversity of views is important, and so is education. People shouldn't be expected to educate as if it's our job, but sometimes people don't know where to look to educate themselves, and since it's a forum it's likely that someone will have the patience and goodwill to at least point in the direction of further education even if they don't want to provide it themselves.

Ultimately, this is a forum for everybody, and if an absolutely safe space is wanted (as it seems Sparkify wants) this is probably not a place that can happen. The mods are not going to add extra rules and vigilance to a thread that can brush up against the rules on occasion as it is.

[Heliomance]

I was just reading an article on some guy's theory about why straight men (generally) like breasts/why breasts are involved in foreplay in humans but not in other species. It actually specified "straight men", from the first line. That's neat. Edit: Though they should probably have said "straight and bisexual men" or "gynosexual men" or something. But hey it's better than just assuming all men are into women.
I happen across all kinds of weird things on the internet.

I'm told that even gay guys and straight women like boobs. Apparently their appeal is nigh-universal.


You are aware that when I joined the thread, I thought I was straight, correct? By your definition, I would not be part of this group. Further, I would actually be kinda irked for being excluded, in spite of being a supporter, simply because I was assumed to be an opressor and shut out before I could say otherwise. I, also, would like some examples of cis heterosexuals in this thread doing these things, preferably with links if you could. If that's not too much trouble, the thread number would work, and then I'd look through for it.

Similarly, I had only the vaguest inklings that I might be non-heteronormative when I started posting. The number of times I felt excluded from queer spaces for being not queer enough is pretty high. Intolerance is a bad thing, regardless of which side it's coming from.


I think I'll leave this thread be. As a cis-mostly-straight person, I don't really fit in to the minorities and I don't want to be seen as invading because although she's not being particularly pleasant about it, Sparkify is right in LGBT folks needing a space for themselves.

I'll still be on the boards if folks want to chat though. :smallsmile:

Oi! Get your butt back here, mister!

[Lix Lorn]

No no no people are forbidden from leaving (http://satwcomic.com/how-to-keep-friends) >: (

[noparlpf]

I'm told that even gay guys and straight women like boobs. Apparently their appeal is nigh-universal.

I've heard mixed things on that, and it does vary by individual. Also, it's partially cultural. Personally I find the attraction kind of confusing. What do you do with them? That's rhetorical, but that's my impression of things.

[Chess435]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.

This thread does not need to be a safe place. Why? This FORUM is a safe place. If someone's sexist or homophobic to you, you report the post and the mods will come down on them like the fist of an angry god.

This thread is for LGBTAetc people to get support in. A lot of that support, by sheer weight of numbers, comes from cis, straight people. This is not a problem.

If this kind of argument has been going on for a while, then maybe not subscribing last thread wasn't an accident.

This. So very much this. This thread is specifically open to everyone, and it'd be downright hypocritical to exclude people based on sexuality/gender identity/etc regardless of whether it's in the majority or not. Sparkify, if you're looking for a place that excludes certain individuals based on the based on the actions of a larger group, and not the individual themselves, then perhaps this forum isn't the place for you.

[Astrella]

I've heard mixed things on that, and it does vary by individual. Also, it's partially cultural. Personally I find the attraction kind of confusing. What do you do with them? That's rhetorical, but that's my impression of things.

Yeah, I think the way women's bodies are very sexualized has quite a bit to do with it as well.

[Partysan]

Honestly, this initiative to scour the thread of allies (!) is doing far more to hurt and possibly drive me away than any comment ever made by them. If it's important to people that there's a thread where no cispeople or heteros are allowed to post, then we should split the thread. But I want to keep my thread where everyone is nice to each other, everyone is welcome as long as they conform to point one and there's hugs and semi-serious flirting whenever I need them. Seriously, this thread is like family to me and I hate seeing it become... well, hateful.

[Urist]

Honestly, this initiative to scour the thread of allies (!) is doing far more to hurt and possibly drive me away than any comment ever made by them. If it's important to people that there's a thread where no cispeople or heteros are allowed to post, then we should split the thread. But I want to keep my thread where everyone is nice to each other, everyone is welcome as long as they conform to point one and there's hugs and semi-serious flirting whenever I need them. Seriously, this thread is like family to me and I hate seeing it become... well, hateful.

You are very wise, and said it far better than I could have.

[noparlpf]

Yeah, I think the way women's bodies are very sexualized has quite a bit to do with it as well.

I vaguely remember some article or study or something regarding countries where you see scantily-clad women on billboards an in car ads and whatever vs. countries where breasts aren't sexualised in media. Seems like they're not as big a deal in areas where they're typically exposed or in areas where media doesn't make a huge deal about them, but they're still often involved in sex or foreplay, so there's still something that seems to be innate there.
Edit: The idea was there's chemical pair-bonding during sex or foreplay involving the breasts or nipples, similar to chemical pair-bonding between mother and infant.

[Astrella]

I vaguely remember some article or study or something regarding countries where you see scantily-clad women on billboards an in car ads and whatever vs. countries where breasts aren't sexualised in media. Seems like they're not as big a deal in areas where they're typically exposed or in areas where media doesn't make a huge deal about them, but they're still often involved in sex or foreplay, so there's still something that seems to be innate there.

Oh yeah, it's like most things I think, a mix of nature and nurture.

[Narasimha]

nara-o was p impolite in mentioning guys first. why did you bring him up? idk how he identifies.

To be perfectly honest, I identify as sheer awesomeness. Its the category most people miss.
I would like to apologize if I offended anyway with my positioning of words. To rectify this situation, I will reset and restate my greeting.

Hello and greetings to all humanoid, sub humanoid, and non humanoid life forms. Or non life forms. Or life non forms. You get my drift. Or you don't.

[TaiLiu]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.
Agreed! Come back, comrades! :smallfrown:

[Eirala]

Also, being on the oppressive side of a binary does kind of make one an oppressor unless one specifically opts out of that and challenges the active and passive oppression that group causes.

I wholeheartedly disagree. For example, being straight doesn't make you automatically an oppressor. It just means you're straight, and how you as an individual treat minorities (sex/gender/race/...) is independent of your sexual orientation. It depends on your whole personality.
Just because there are some straight homo-/transphobes doesn't mean every straight person has to defend himself against the same accusations. Guilty by default for all heterosexuals is heterophobic.


But, that's enough on that line. I've used you fine gals and guys and golentans as a personal philosophy sounding board too much, and as a support thread too little, and have directly contributed to scaring off at least two people. I think I will follow suit, and only post if I have something topical and positive. Thanks for the help I've gotten from you all. :smallsmile:.

The Succubus, hold the door for me on the way out, will you?

I can't agree more with Lix and Chess:


I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.



This. So very much this. This thread is specifically open to everyone, and it'd be downright hypocritical to exclude people based on sexuality/gender identity/etc regardless of whether it's in the majority or not. Sparkify, if you're looking for a place that excludes certain individuals based on the based on the actions of a larger group, and not the individual themselves, then perhaps this forum isn't the place for you.

Even though i'm not that active and can't really claim as many of you as dear friends as some of you can, what i can say is that i love you all and that this thread is by far the nicest corner in the internet i have ever bin. It is full of the most supportive, friendliest, most intelligent and tolerant people i can imagine.

It has already been said a few times, but this thread is open for everyone. No exceptions. If this thread becomes exclusive in any way, it becomes pointless.

So please, Succubus, Sparkify, SiuiS and everyone else thinking about leaving, please don't! :smallfrown:

[noparlpf]

I wholeheartedly disagree. For example, being straight doesn't make you automatically an oppressor. It just means you're straight, and how you as an individual treat minorities (sex/gender/race/...) is independent of your sexual orientation. It depends on your whole personality.
Just because there are some straight homo-/transphobes doesn't mean every straight person has to defend himself against the same accusations. Guilty by default for all heterosexuals is heterophobic.

True, but as I think somebody said, there's the thing where if you keep quiet, you're implicitly supporting the majority.
I'll admit I don't speak up as often as possible, but that's more because on the bad parts of the internet you just get yelled and cursed at when you do try. This applies both to homophobes and transphobes, and to misandrists and ally-bashers; I don't even try if they're obviously set in their ways (or if their entire blog is devoted to the subject), but if they seem to have just said something out of ignorance, I'll often point it out to them, and sometimes I get apologies and even rare thanks for pointing it out.

[Irish Musician]

I would just like to say that if I ever have made people uncomfortable or caused offense in this forum, I am truly sorry. In no way have I ever come here to make people feel bad, uncomfortable, or offended by anything I say. I wouldn't ever want to stop coming here permanently, because doing what little I can to help people makes me happy, knowing that people in this forum are getting the help they need (at least some of it) and it helps them live their lives a little easier.

That being said if me being straight is a big problem and causing people to not want to come here anymore, then I would leave. I would be quite sad if I had to, but out of respect for the thread I would.

It makes me sad that this subject has come up, talking about excluding people who are straight or Cis just because they are straight or Cis. Saying things like that is quite hurtful and kind of makes me feel like I have no right to be here since I am (and what I read when I read thing that have been said thus far) "normal". I know no one said the word "normal" but that is how it feels, and what I see, when I read comments like that. I hate the word "normal", even if it is implied, and I really don't even like using it in making a point. We are all different and should embrace our differences together and love each other more because we aren't all the same. (Because, honestly, that would be really boring)

I hope we can move past this subject soon and move on to helping each other again. I like doing that part.

~Matthew~

[Arachu]

*Isn't totally sure what's going on 'cause she hasn't been keeping up with the thread as well as she'd like, but is gonna take this opportunity to point out that she now has 2 SO's - Lea Plath and Scion of the Void* n.n


In other news, working with a weed-eater all day is exhausting. Especially when they keep breaking for no apparent reason, you get blamed for it and totally blow a job that you didn't really want to have but were totally set up to get. DXD

(I'm not that worried of course, McDonald's is hiring and I probably won't have to stand out in the sun all day if I get on there. :smalltongue: )


~Bianca

[Lea Plath]

What has just happened in the past few pages makes me sad. We are friends, as well as a support group. Lots of people have interesting and important stuff to contribute and they don't "oppress" us.

*Huggles Bianca*

[Nix Nihila]

Regarding the discussion of whether this should be an ally inclusive space: I've been going to an LGBTQ support group for a while now which is exclusive to self identified LGBTQ people, and it has been very helpful, in part due to being queer specific. That said, I don't think that this is the proper venue to try to have a queer specific support group, nor do I think it is really even feasible to make it into one.

The main "problem" I think, is that sometimes this thread is a place where people have moral/philosophical discussions which touch on things that are not conducive to a supportive environment (like the hypothetical preventative cure for being transgender that was brought up in the last thread). I don't know how problematic this is, as I'm not sure that this thread is intended to replace traditional support groups. I don't view it that way, but perhaps other people feel differently.

Re: Boobs. There is a certain aesthetic value that they have which makes them fun to draw/paint, but I think that has more to do with them being curved rather than anything unique to breasts.

[noparlpf]

Re: Boobs. There is a certain aesthetic value that they have which makes them fun to draw/paint, but I think that has more to do with them being curved rather than anything unique to breasts.

I have an asexual female friend who says "drawing boys is boring, they're just like, straight lines, and there are no boobs."

[noparlpf]

You just don't see enough... voluptuous men in those nude modeling classes.

She just draws for fun, and she's so weirded out by the nude body that she couldn't possibly take a nude figure drawing class.
Although another girl I sort-of know was painting a naked guy, and apparently he was flirting with her the whole time. (She's gay, but it seems like it'd be equally awkward if she were straight.)

[Axinian]

I have an asexual female friend who says "drawing boys is boring, they're just like, straight lines, and there are no boobs."

As someone who just got done with a life drawing class, I can corroborate this sentiment.
Also, if the guy she was drawing was a professional model, he can probably get fired for that.

[TaiLiu]

Also, if the guy she was drawing was a professional model, he can probably get fired for that.
:smallconfused:

[Absol197]

This is the only time I'm going to get involved in the discussion that's been going on for the past couple pages. I sincerely hope I never have to say this again:
This thread does not need to be made a safe space. It was already safe. The current discussion, on the contrary, has made it less safe, because now certain groups of people feel attacked and excluded because of facets of their personality and identity over which they have no control. That in NOT something I will tolerate; not here. If someone, ANYONE, comes here and says something hurtful to any of my friends, I will ask them to leave - it does not matter how that person identifies, whether they are part of the majority or the minority.

None of the people here who are part of any majority has, in my view, said anything purposefully malicious. Yes, sometimes things are said in ignorance, but when it is pointed out, they always apologize, and often remove their statement. And I disagree wholeheartedly that this place is not one of education: if it wasn't, I would still be lost amid the throes of depression, thinking I'm a man and trying fruitlessly to live up to that. I came here knowing nothing at all, and it was because of the kindness and knowledge of the people here that I was able to become the person I am today. I spent a good deal of time debating whether I was trans or not. What if I had come to the conclusion that I wasn't? Would I then have to be excluded, to leave my new friends because I'm no longer part if the "in group"?

THIS place, THIS thread, saved me in a very real way. And it is made up of people of all stripes and colors, all sexes, orientations, genders, expressions, races, nationalities - everything. As far as I'm concerned, the only "Oppressors" here are those that shame or exclude another for being who they are, whoever they may be.

Okay, now that that's over, let's move on to more constructive things:


Random question: What's the best way to go about indicating when someone has misgendered a trans* person in a place you don't know how accepting people are? I'm assuming of course that you know the person is out.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you give an example, or perhaps explain a bit more? I'll see if I can work up an answer!


~Phoenix~

[Mutant Sheep]

T-snip-
Okay, now that that's over, let's move on to more constructive things:

I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you give an example, or perhaps explain a bit more? I'll see if I can work up an answer!


~Phoenix~
I think this discussion is pretty constructive, but I'm fascinated by most any discussion.

I think War was asking the best way to correct someone who misindentified/was unaware a transexual person, in a work enviroment where the policy on these things is unclear or undefined. I would say "Correct the person", and if they react negatively, hey, you learned they suck! If they apologize, you made a friend and hopefully made the workplace less awkward for the transexual person.:smallbiggrin::smallsmile:

*shuffles out*

[SaintRidley]

Excluding the oppressors makes this a safe space, although I guess it's not supposed to be safe. The only thing I've seen cishets do here are be really offensive and insensitive to gender-minority people (gender-changing rings, referring to Natalie Reed as something she's not, etc) as well as the SRMs. Treating them politely wouldn't be a problem if we were being treated politely.

I bow down to your omniscience, Sparkify. Clearly your special insight into the sexuality and cis/trans status of every person who has ever existed shall carry the day, and all cis-/het allies shall be scoured from the thread. Praise be to you! While we are at it, let us return to speaking only languages from the Khoisan language family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khoisan_languages) since English (and indeed all languages of the Indo-European family) are languages of the white oppressor - let's get white people out of the thread as well. People from Canada, the U.S., and any European nation (or with traceable ancestry back to any of those nations) should also be removed for their colonialist ties. If you come from a socioeconomic background more well-off than proletariat, you are classist scum and should be removed. Ditto anyone of the predominant religious background of Western Europe. We shouldn't forget about the Patriarchy either - all men, evacuate the thread. You are oppressors and should be excluded on principle.

Let us remove all the oppressors, of every kind. Then we shall have a truly safe space, for nobody will be allowed in this thread. And what space can be safer than a space where you run no risk of encountering anybody, even yourself?

[Kittenwolf]

Just got home from the theatre and realised my hair is still in the braid that someone (*looks at Neo_Leviathan*) put it into earlier today (well, yesterday now). I thought I was the ninja hair-braider!

That was still there? But I didn't even tie it off o.O


I think I'll leave this thread be. As a cis-mostly-straight person, I don't really fit in to the minorities and I don't want to be seen as invading because although she's not being particularly pleasant about it, Sparkify is right in LGBT folks needing a space for themselves.

I'll still be on the boards if folks want to chat though. :smallsmile:

Hey! Come back :(



I have to say, what in the name of Glod is going on here???
This "exclude straight cis people" thing is by several orders of magnitude the most utterly disturbing thing I have *ever* seen in any of these threads. What is this? "Treat all of them the way some of them treat us"? Yeah, because *that* always makes things safer for everyone.

You know what that kind of thinking leads to? People *stopping thinking of us as typical people and thinking of us as hateful excluders*. It was nearly exactly that (Specifically "If you're a male you are an oppressor to all women, there is no way you can ever change this, your existence oppresses us") that resulted in me refusing to be a feminist for a great many years and thinking that most feminists were hateful and spiteful. Oddly enough basic human nature is "Exclude me, especially for reasons beyond my control, and I will hate you for it"

Respect Good, Allies Good, Friends Good, Exclusion BAD


Excluding the oppressors makes this a safe space, although I guess it's not supposed to be safe. The only thing I've seen cishets do here are be really offensive and insensitive to gender-minority people (gender-changing rings, referring to Natalie Reed as something she's not, etc) as well as the SRMs. Treating them politely wouldn't be a problem if we were being treated politely.

Bull****. Yes a couple of people have made mistakes, and generally have apologised for them, but the vast majority of allies in here are exactly that: Allies, and haven't done anything of the sort.
Gods, I don't even pay attention to that when looking at someone's reply.


If this is the way this thread is going I'll be out of here as well.

[TaiLiu]

If this is the way this thread is going I'll be out of here as well.
:smallfrown: Is this thread breaking up?

[Absol197]

I think this discussion is pretty constructive, but I'm fascinated by most any discussion.

I disagree. It's creating an uncomfortable, opressive atmosphere in what was (and should be) a safe place. It's doing exactly the opposite of what this thread should be for. I am hereby requesting that everyone (including myself) drop this line of discussion. If you would like to discuss it further, please move to PMs. None to me, however, because I have no desire to discuss it further myself. Please and thank you.


I think War was asking the best way to correct someone who misindentified/was unaware a transexual person, in a work enviroment where the policy on these things is unclear or undefined. I would say "Correct the person", and if they react negatively, hey, you learned they suck! If they apologize, you made a friend and hopefully made the workplace less awkward for the transexual person.:smallbiggrin::smallsmile:

*shuffles out*

Hmm, if that's the case, it's tough to say. Obviously just correcting people could be problematic, because as you (Warkitty) say, you're nto sure how opent he gathering is to the idea. I would say that you should ask the trans-person in quesiton, preferrably before the event, what they would like you to do if it comes up, depending on the crowd.

Of course, you can't always do that, or sometimes don't that it's something you need to ask about, so I would say that in deferrence to safety, it would likely be best to just make no comment, and then ask the individual in question how they would like you to proceed in the future. Each person is in their own place int he process, has their own ideas, and each different crowd can have different reasons for knowing/not knowing. Sorry, but I don't seem to be able to give a single, good answer :smallredface: !


~Phoenix~

EDIT @ TaiLiu: I really, really hope not. I will fight for it for as long as I can.

[Chess435]

:smallfrown: Is this thread breaking up?

Bah, one person can't break up the bonds we all share. We're a family after all.

[Kittenwolf]

:smallfrown: Is this thread breaking up?

I sure hope not :(

[noparlpf]

I think this discussion is pretty constructive, but I'm fascinated by most any discussion.

I think War was asking the best way to correct someone who misindentified/was unaware a transexual person, in a work enviroment where the policy on these things is unclear or undefined. I would say "Correct the person", and if they react negatively, hey, you learned they suck! If they apologize, you made a friend and hopefully made the workplace less awkward for the transexual person.:smallbiggrin::smallsmile:

*shuffles out*

I'd suggest against outing somebody without talking to them first. If you know somebody misgendered a trans friend/acquaintance of yours, tell them, and let them deal with it.

[Eldest]

I believe that most of these people are saying if straight cis people are getting cut out of the thread, they will leave too. And honestly, considering leaving as well if we start excluding people. The opening post says it best.


Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment. Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, Q, I, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.

Everyone is welcome.

This will be the last I post on this topic unless something drastic comes up (Chaotic Goodish, don't rely on me to follow my word exactly :smalltongue:) or somebody addresses me specifically.

In related news, Karen is going to be taking a break from the the thread, and might not come back. Dunno yet. I can pass on messages if you'd like.

[noparlpf]

So, how about the weather? It's kind of drizzly here, and it's so humid that when I stepped out for some fresh air earlier it was harder to breathe than in my stuffy room. Hope it's done tomorrow, I hate parking on campus, although it's nice to have the option to drive when it rains now I have a car instead of having to bike and then re-lube my chain every time.
Also somehow I sprained my ankle in my sleep last night. >:|
How are you all doing?

[Kittenwolf]

So, how about the weather? It's kind of drizzly here, and it's so humid that when I stepped out for some fresh air earlier it was harder to breathe than in my stuffy room. Hope it's done tomorrow, I hate parking on campus, although it's nice to have the option to drive when it rains now I have a car instead of having to bike and then re-lube my chain every time.
Also somehow I sprained my ankle in my sleep last night. >:|
How are you all doing?

It was dry on my way in (and thank glod it's not humid), but looking out the window at work it's grey skies as far as the eye can see. I anticipate a wet ride home..

In good news I bought a new bike yesterday (which hopefully insurance should cover), in bad news my leg is playing up again. I really should get that looked at one of these years.

Also went and saw the new Star Trek movie yesterday, which I reasonably enjoyed.

Spoiler free issues that I had (no, seriously, it's unspoilered)

How in the *redacted* is '*redacted* up to *redacted* *redacted* going *redacted* *redacted* *redacted* and then *redacted* *redacted* at *redacted*' supposed to work? To say nothing of the '*redacted* *redacted* of the *redacted*' or *redacted* *redacted* when you *redacted* aspects.
Seriously, that was just silly. Just make the *redacted* a *redacted* *redacted* style *redacted* and *redacted* *redacted* out of *redacted* rather than *redacted* *redacted* *redacted*.

Also, why in the *redacted* don't *redacted* *redacted* or *redacted* *redacted* *redacted* any form of *redacted* *redacted*? Or *redacted*? Or even *redacted* in an *redacted* *redacted* *redacted* out the *redacted* window?

It seems that all *redacted* *redacted* *redacted* are utterly *redacted* too "Oh hey, you *redacted* *redacted* if the *redacted* *redacted* out *redacted* we're *redacted* then we *redacted* a *redacted*? Yeah, *redacted* up the *redacted* *redacted* on the *redacted* and *redacted* him *redacted* *redacted* , I'm sure *redacted* on this *redacted* *redacted* an *redacted* on *redacted* *redacted* *redacted* "

[noparlpf]

It was dry on my way in (and thank glod it's not humid), but looking out the window at work it's grey skies as far as the eye can see. I anticipate a wet ride home..

In good news I bought a new bike yesterday (which hopefully insurance should cover), in bad news my leg is playing up again. I really should get that looked at one of these years.

Also went and saw the new Star Trek movie yesterday, which I reasonably enjoyed.

Spoiler free issues that I had (no, seriously, it's unspoilered)
*snip*

Driving in the rain at night on the highway is nice. I like it. What time is it for you?
Bicycle or motorbike? Either way it might be a good idea to have your leg checked out before doing things with it.
AHHH I want to see it but I still have finals (which I should be studying for...is it even worth taking one of my finals when I know I'm failing it and the class?). I'll probably drive out to Philly to see it with a friend next week sometime.

[Kittenwolf]

Driving in the rain at night on the highway is nice. I like it. What time is it for you?
Bicycle or motorbike? Either way it might be a good idea to have your leg checked out before doing things with it.
AHHH I want to see it but I still have finals (which I should be studying for...is it even worth taking one of my finals when I know I'm failing it and the class?). I'll probably drive out to Philly to see it with a friend next week sometime.

It's just shy of midday over here

Pushbike :) I haven't ridden a motorbike since I was... ten? Somewhere around that.

Eh, my leg plays up from time to time. I injured it playing sport a good ten years ago (I think I tore a muscle or pinched a nerve or something) and now I sometimes have issues with it. It'll be perfectly fine for months, or a year, then suddenly it'll start hurting again for anything from a few minutes to a few months. When it's being an issue the pain level varies day to day from 'barely notice' to 'oh gods I can hardly move'.

Not sure why I've never had it looked at to be honest.

[Eldest]

It's nice and hot up here (near Chicago), and we're probably getting rain tomorrow. Which is sad, because tomorrow was when we're gonna spend the day downtown. More walking outside than normal.
Edit: I agree with everything you said about the Star Trek movie, by the way.

[TaiLiu]

In related news, Karen is going to be taking a break from the the thread, and might not come back. Dunno yet. I can pass on messages if you'd like.
:smallfrown: Oh, no! If she chooses not to come back, please pass on my final hug. (Don't interpret this the wrong way.)

[noparlpf]

It's just shy of midday over here

Pushbike :) I haven't ridden a motorbike since I was... ten? Somewhere around that.

Eh, my leg plays up from time to time. I injured it playing sport a good ten years ago (I think I tore a muscle or pinched a nerve or something) and now I sometimes have issues with it. It'll be perfectly fine for months, or a year, then suddenly it'll start hurting again for anything from a few minutes to a few months. When it's being an issue the pain level varies day to day from 'barely notice' to 'oh gods I can hardly move'.

Not sure why I've never had it looked at to be honest.

Weird, that seems to me like something you'd want to get checked out, because a lot of injuries can get worse over time when left untreated.
I partially tore muscles in both calves two years ago and got it checked out right away. School's incompetent Health Services misdiagnosed it and suggested stuff that would have made it worse. Luckily my mum took me to a real doctor over my next break and he knew what he was doing, so those are better now; just had to rest up for a month or two (nothing more strenuous than walking so they could heal, and I was supposed to stretch more than I did). But yeah, that hurt a lot, and I'm good with pain.


It's nice and hot up here (near Chicago), and we're probably getting rain tomorrow. Which is sad, because tomorrow was when we're gonna spend the day downtown. More walking outside than normal.

You mean awful and hot, right? I have trouble above 70°F.
Aww, that stinks. Rain when you plan to go out sucks.

[Eldest]

:smallfrown: Oh, no! If she chooses not to come back, please pass on my final hug. (Don't interpret this the wrong way.)

Will do, if she comes back or not. Hugs are good.

Edit: And I love the heat, so hot is good...

[Absol197]

The weather here in Colorado is very fine, indeed! Although I hear it's going to get a little colder tonight and tomorrow, but it's nothing we can't handle!

And on thread related news, I have a bad dream the other night. I dreamed that I had started going bald (in a really bad way - the top of my head had a spot, surrounding it was those thin, stringy clumps, and then I had my full hair in a thin circle at the edges), and it was too late for my hormones to stop the process. It was horrifying...


~Phoenix~

[Kittenwolf]

Weird, that seems to me like something you'd want to get checked out, because a lot of injuries can get worse over time when left untreated.


I really should, I guess when it goes away like it does I always keep thinking "Hey, maybe it'll be gone for good this time".
I need to make an appointment with a GP to talk about hormones anyway, and I'd planned to talk about my throat that still seems to be having lingering flu-like symptoms. I guess I can add my leg to the list.


Will do, if she comes back or not. Hugs are good.

Edit: And I love the heat, so hot is good...

Give her a hug from me too :(
Sad to see people going away.



And in totally other news, that threatening rain has now arrived.

[SaintRidley]

Stupidly humid right now in Iowa. Really wish it would just rain all the humidity out and we can get back to reasonable weather.

[noparlpf]

The weather here in Colorado is very fine, indeed! Although I hear it's going to get a little colder tonight and tomorrow, but it's nothing we can't handle!

And on thread related news, I have a bad dream the other night. I dreamed that I had started going bald (in a really bad way - the top of my head had a spot, surrounding it was those thin, stringy clumps, and then I had my full hair in a thin circle at the edges), and it was too late for my hormones to stop the process. It was horrifying...

~Phoenix~

Oh dear, that sounds awful. I'm sorry. You're pretty young, unless you have my horrible luck with hair genes you should be okay.
I can sympathise, I used to have the best hair, and now I'm expecting to be bald inside of ten years...my hairline is already subtly receding at 19 (although it's hardly noticeable to anybody else, my old roommate noticed last time I saw him because I didn't have my usual hat or bandana on after I showered) and my beard isn't even done coming in.
Oh yeah, I had a silly dream recently. I knew I was asleep and dreaming, but suddenly a bunch of things made sense. For example, I realised that my friend who's weirded out by nipples must be because she doesn't have any herself. Makes lots of sense when you're asleep...point is, dreams are confusing and don't mean anything, and usually they play on irrational fears.


I really should, I guess when it goes away like it does I always keep thinking "Hey, maybe it'll be gone for good this time".
I need to make an appointment with a GP to talk about hormones anyway, and I'd planned to talk about my throat that still seems to be having lingering flu-like symptoms. I guess I can add my leg to the list.

And in totally other news, that threatening rain has now arrived.

Probably a good idea.

Well, maybe it'll finish before you have to leave.


Stupidly humid right now in Iowa. Really wish it would just rain all the humidity out and we can get back to reasonable weather.

Yeah, that's my hope here too. I want it to pick up beyond a drizzle and be done with it by morning. Hopefully as it cools down overnight it'll condense and start raining.

[SaintRidley]

Yeah, that's my hope here too. I want it to pick up beyond a drizzle and be done with it by morning. Hopefully as it cools down overnight it'll condense and start raining.

Yeah, it's so bad here that our toilet tank started condensing. Never seen that happen before today.

[Irish Musician]

It's nice and hot up here (near Chicago)
So what is considered "hot" up in Chicago? It hit about 94F here in Texas today.

You mean awful and hot, right? I have trouble above 70°F. Aww, that stinks. Rain when you plan to go out sucks.
And that is why you should never come to Texas from, about, March through, around, October. :smallamused:

:smallfrown: Is this thread breaking up?
I'd like to answer that with a wonderfully resounding, "Ah HELL Naw!!!" :smallwink:


~Matthew~

[noparlpf]

Yeah, it's so bad here that our toilet tank started condensing. Never seen that happen before today.

I see condensation on the toilet sometimes, discounting after a steamy shower. But then, here I live near the coast, home I live near the coast, and at my old house I lived on a large lake. I guess you might expect higher humidity around those. And we tend to keep the houses colder.

Edit:

So what is considered "hot" up in Chicago? It hit about 94F here in Texas today.

And that is why you should never come to Texas from, about, March through, around, October. :smallamused:

~Matthew~

Ugh. It was only around seventy today, but with the humidity, that's more than I can handle. Biking to school this summer five miles with a black backpack is going to be hell, when it gets into the nineties.

[Eldest]

So what is considered "hot" up in Chicago? It hit about 94F here in Texas today.

About 90 here, too. Originally from Atlanta, so I'm used to about 10 degrees warmer than most people around here.

[Irish Musician]

The weather here in Colorado is very fine, indeed! Although I hear it's going to get a little colder tonight and tomorrow, but it's nothing we can't handle!
This makes me sad.....I hate summers here in Texas

The weather here in Colorado is very fine, indeed! And on thread related news, I have a bad dream the other night. I dreamed that I had started going bald (in a really bad way - the top of my head had a spot, surrounding it was those thin, stringy clumps, and then I had my full hair in a thin circle at the edges), and it was too late for my hormones to stop the process. It was horrifying...


~Phoenix~
Aww *hugs* Well remember it was just a bad dream. Also, I didn't know that taking hormones could stop the balding process. Interesting :smallsmile:


About 90 here, too. Originally from Atlanta, so I'm used to about 10 degrees warmer than most people around here.
I here that. It isn't even the heat that gets me. It's the stupid humidity. I HATE the humidity. My grandparents lived in New Mexico for a while, in between Albuquerque and Santa Fe and the summers there were hot, but there was no humidity what-so-ever....so it was actually fairly nice.

~Matthew~

[SaintRidley]

Eh, I need some degree of humidity. Southwest Texas and New Mexico are just too dry for me - I feel like I'm about to die of thirst when I'm down that way.

Still not a fan of high humidity.

[Roland St. Jude]

I would very much appreciate it if my closest friends would stop leaving.

This thread does not need to be a safe place. Why? This FORUM is a safe place. If someone's sexist or homophobic to you, you report the post and the mods will come down on them like the fist of an angry god.

This thread is for LGBTAetc people to get support in. A lot of that support, by sheer weight of numbers, comes from cis, straight people. This is not a problem....Sheriff: This seems accurate. We don't permit any flaming or trolling, and hate speech of any kind is likely to get people banned.


This. So very much this. This thread is specifically open to everyone, and it'd be downright hypocritical to exclude people based on sexuality/gender identity/etc regardless of whether it's in the majority or not. Sparkify, if you're looking for a place that excludes certain individuals based on the based on the actions of a larger group, and not the individual themselves, then perhaps this forum isn't the place for you.Sheriff: Indeed. This is an open forum. As long as people abide by the Forum Rules, they are welcome to participate in any thread. This is a discussion forum not a therapy, support, or otherwise limited membership forum. This thread is supportive because that's how Playgrounders are, it's why most people come to this thread, and the Forum Rules enforce a certain level of civility. If you are looking for a place free of X individuals, I recommend looking elsewhere or creating a forum yourself where you can control who joins.


I wholeheartedly disagree. For example, being straight doesn't make you automatically an oppressor. It just means you're straight, and how you as an individual treat minorities (sex/gender/race/...) is independent of your sexual orientation. It depends on your whole personality.
Just because there are some straight homo-/transphobes doesn't mean every straight person has to defend himself against the same accusations. Guilty by default for all heterosexuals is heterophobic.Sheriff: The Forum Rules protect participants in this thread from slurs and trolling, regardless of who is doing the insulting and who is being insulted. We're equal opportunity rule enforcers here. Let's not have any more calling people "oppressors" or using slur-like designations.


Everyone is welcome.Sheriff: This is pretty much the ethos of this thread as well as this Forum. If someone is flaming or trolling, let us know and it'll be acted on promptly. If there is some specific problem beyond even normal rules issues please PM me and I'll look into it immediately.


This will be the last I post on this topic unless something drastic comes up (Chaotic Goodish, don't rely on me to follow my word exactly :smalltongue:) or somebody addresses me specifically.

In related news, Karen is going to be taking a break from the the thread, and might not come back. Dunno yet. I can pass on messages if you'd like.Sheriff: People are free to come and go as they please, but we're not going to stand by while some posters tell others not to post. That's not how this forum works.

[Lix Lorn]

I want to hug you right now. Is that okay?

In better news, I got a letter from the london clinic a coupla days back. The ball is finally rolling. I need to get an appointment at the doctors to check a coupla things, then I can send the form off to them and wait anxiously for a bit longer before things will actually start happening.

[Chess435]

Thank you for straightening things out, Roland.



In better news, I got a letter from the london clinic a coupla days back. The ball is finally rolling. I need to get an appointment at the doctors to check a coupla things, then I can send the form off to them and wait anxiously for a bit longer before things will actually start happening.

:smallbiggrin: Better late than never, I guess.

[Kindablue]

This makes me sad.....I hate summers here in Texas

Aww *hugs* Well remember it was just a bad dream. Also, I didn't know that taking hormones could stop the balding process. Interesting :smallsmile:


I here that. It isn't even the heat that gets me. It's the stupid humidity. I HATE the humidity. My grandparents lived in New Mexico for a while, in between Albuquerque and Santa Fe and the summers there were hot, but there was no humidity what-so-ever....so it was actually fairly nice.

~Matthew~

I live in coastal Texas, and my air conditioner just broke. If I disappear suddenly, I have died of heat stroke.

[ScionoftheVoid]

I'm going to disappear even more than usual for a bit. If someone wants me to see something before, say, page 25 or so, pass it through someone who knows me, please.

[mistformsquirrl]

*peeks head out of rubble* Is it safe yet? <o.o>;;

Today has been migraine-errific <x,x> spent most of it napping. I did finish that Exalted character though, so yay for that! (I think I'm *finally* starting to grasp that system. I think.)

Also did a little art for the first time in awhile. <. .> not that it's GOOD art, but I figure if I keep drawing, before I die I might manage something halfway decent in the 'infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters producing the works of Shakespeare' fashion >.> if nothing else.

[Narasimha]

Hugs are good, cookies are good, naps are good, the weather is good, the Sith Code is good, life is good.
My words of wisdom for the night.

[angrymudcrab]

Hugs are good, cookies are good, naps are good, the Sith Code is good, life is good.
My words of wisdom for the night.
One of these things is not like the others. *Shoots force lightning out of fingers.*

[mistformsquirrl]

*is fried* <x_x> The wheels on the bus go round and round...

[Lix Lorn]

One of these things is not like the others. *Shoots force lightning out of fingers.*
Yeah, naps suck.

[Kindablue]

Congratulations on the letter, Lixie! I hope the wheels of bureaocracy are greased and quick to turn for you!

[TaiLiu]

*is fried* <x_x> The wheels on the bus go round and round...
You need medical attention! Quickly, prepare the hugs!

[Narasimha]

These are not the hugs you are looking for... *waves hands in a Jedi-ish motion*

[Halae]

Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

[TaiLiu]

Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?
Hello, Comrade Harnel! We have cookies on the right and hugs and the left; help yourself. :smallsmile:

[bluewind95]

Roland, you're my new hero.

I came to this thread a very confused person, hurt by many years of a very... unaccepting culture. I didn't know I existed. I thought I was just some kind of... fail cis/hetero. I came here. I'm a shy person. Without the welcoming acceptance of all you people, I never would have stayed. I lurked first, then posted. And thanks to you guys, I found myself, or at least a good part of myself, and I'm learning more about myself every time I come here. I agree it's not the responsibility of us minorities to educate the majority. But if someone from the majority is genuinely wanting to learn about the minority, then I don't see why it should be wrong to give them that information. We don't HAVE to. But... why not do so? Information (And willingness to take it) is the only cure to ignorance, and ignorance is at the root of many hatreds.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... thank you guys. For being welcoming. For being amazing examples of humanity. I love you all in the friendliest way possible. Really, this place is like a second home.

Also, welcome to the new people~!

[Eldest]

Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

Welcome! Cookies, hugs, advice, and lots of wackiness here.

[Halae]

Hello, Comrade Harnel! We have cookies on the right and hugs and the left; help yourself. :smallsmile:

*noms cookies*
Welcome! Cookies, hugs, advice, and lots of wackiness here.

Thanks. Speaking of advice, You guys wouldn't happen to know Whether Alberta Canada covers Gender Reassignment Surgery, would you? >.>

[Absol197]

Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

Hi! Very sorry about the row a bit earlier; but we are normally very friendly people! Hopefully you don't mind hugs, becaue we love giving them out! If you have any questions, either about how things work, or about our own experiences, please don't hesitate to ask! We're here to help!

I've actually been wondering about my sexuality some recently, as well. I don't think I'm asexual, or demi, but...I dunno, maybe it's because I'm still in the middle of transition, but I don't really seem to feel all that much desire. I want to have a relationship, very much so, but sex doesn't seem to be such a big part of it anymore.

I dunno, it's probably just a phase, exacerbated by being in the middle of transition...


~Phoenix~

[Eldest]

Signs point (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/06/07/gender-reassignment-alberta_n_1578903.html) to yes. (http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html) Or at least in a vague, positive direction. Probably best to check your specific plan.

[TaiLiu]

Thanks. Speaking of advice, You guys wouldn't happen to know Whether Alberta Canada covers Gender Reassignment Surgery, would you? >.>
It is! :smallsmile: (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/07/alberta-gender-reassignment-surgery/)

Alberta will reinstate funding for gender reassignment surgeries June 15 [2012]...

[Halae]

Hi! Very sorry about the row a bit earlier; but we are normally very friendly people! Hopefully you don't mind hugs, becaue we love giving them out! If you have any questions, either about how things work, or about our own experiences, please don't hesitate to ask! We're here to help!

I've actually been wondering about my sexuality some recently, as well. I don't think I'm asexual, or demi, but...I dunno, maybe it's because I'm still in the middle of transition, but I don't really seem to feel all that much desire. I want to have a relationship, very much so, but sex doesn't seem to be such a big part of it anymore.

I dunno, it's probably just a phase, exacerbated by being in the middle of transition...


~Phoenix~That's honestly how i am. I dislike sex. I've actually broken up with people because, while I like the thought of sex, the actual act is disgusting to me, and barely registers as something enjoyable. I do it for their sake, but... really.

Despite this, I have a deep seated desire to be in a relationship. they just have to understand that I dislike sex.

The transexualism has thrown a wrench into the works, but my boyfriend is supportive caring, and even enjoys the thought a little, So I'm good there.

Signs point (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/06/07/gender-reassignment-alberta_n_1578903.html) to yes. (http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/600_699/0615.html) Or at least in a vague, positive direction. Probably best to check your specific plan.
It is! :smallsmile: (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/07/alberta-gender-reassignment-surgery/)You are wonderful, wonderful people :smallbiggrin:

[mistformsquirrl]

I've actually been wondering about my sexuality some recently, as well. I don't think I'm asexual, or demi, but...I dunno, maybe it's because I'm still in the middle of transition, but I don't really seem to feel all that much desire. I want to have a relationship, very much so, but sex doesn't seem to be such a big part of it anymore.

I dunno, it's probably just a phase, exacerbated by being in the middle of transition...


~Phoenix~

I get like that sometimes too. I can't say for sure what it is or why it is, but I have a lot of times where I don't want anything too physical - a hug, a kiss maybe, mostly though I just want someone to tell me "I love you" and mean it.

< . .> That said I'm personally hiding from relationships; I'm sorting out all kinds of issues and frankly my depression and migraines make me a pain in the butt to be around on a regular basis.

[DrunkenMists]

It is! :smallsmile: (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/07/alberta-gender-reassignment-surgery/)

You gotta be kidding me; I really gotta pay attention to local news more.:smallfrown:

Not that it makes a difference to me; I'm gonna stick with being genderfluid till I can afford to transistion without putting me outta house and home.

Good to know though; thanks for Asking that Harnel, and Awnsering that TaiLiu

[Halae]

You gotta be kidding me; I really gotta pay attention to local news more.:smallfrown:

Not that it makes a difference to me; I'm gonna stick with being genderfluid till I can afford to transistion without putting me outta house and home.

Good to know though; thanks for Asking that Harnel, and Awnsering that TaiLiu

Given how completely broke I am, I'm rather thankful to TaiLiu as well.

[Lentrax]

Hello new peoples!

I am the resident cake dispensary and supportivist here.

And you know, I figured something out folks.

We fight and argue. Who doesn't? What makes us awesome is that we can work it out ourselves without resorting to calling the fists of the gods mods.

I love you all.

[mistformsquirrl]

<._.> I don't fight, I hide. I am a grade A giant coward. ><;

[Heliomance]

The people that left haven't come back yet :/

[Sparkify]

You gotta be kidding me; I really gotta pay attention to local news more.:smallfrown:

Not that it makes a difference to me; I'm gonna stick with being genderfluid till I can afford to transistion without putting me outta house and home.

Good to know though; thanks for Asking that Harnel, and Awnsering that TaiLiu

i actually struggle a lot with identifying how I do because I know several people that used to identify as I do now before finalizing on something else so I feel like other people see it as a stepping stone and are just waiting for me to cajone up and come out to myself, sorry that just remixed me of that

[Mina Kobold]

About 90 here, too. Originally from Atlanta, so I'm used to about 10 degrees warmer than most people around here.

Entirely because I am from a country where 24 degrees Celsius is considered a sign of the end of the world, but that sounds outright scary to me. I'm not somehow an Ice Elemental without knowing it, am I? O.O


I want to hug you right now. Is that okay?

In better news, I got a letter from the london clinic a coupla days back. The ball is finally rolling. I need to get an appointment at the doctors to check a coupla things, then I can send the form off to them and wait anxiously for a bit longer before things will actually start happening.

Congratulations! I hope that the appointment goes well and that the wait after the form-sending will be short. :smallsmile:

Now I just wish I could tag along and beg them to let me go there too. ^_^'


*peeks head out of rubble* Is it safe yet? <o.o>;;

Today has been migraine-errific <x,x> spent most of it napping. I did finish that Exalted character though, so yay for that! (I think I'm *finally* starting to grasp that system. I think.)

Also did a little art for the first time in awhile. <. .> not that it's GOOD art, but I figure if I keep drawing, before I die I might manage something halfway decent in the 'infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters producing the works of Shakespeare' fashion >.> if nothing else.

Yay for finishing characters! ^_^

*Checks Squirrl's DeviantArt*

That's not bad at all, certainly better than I used to be. I've seen successful webcomics who started off less experienced and now are very near professional. Keep practising and you will outdo those infinite monkeys in no time! :smallsmile:


Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

Hi, Harnel! Welcome to the thread. ^_^

Sounds like you've come quite a while already in unscrewing (or is it screwing in? ^_^') everything, congrats on your family and friends taking it well. :smallsmile:

[Mono Vertigo]

Oh hi there what's up today you rascals have done it again you always wait until I go to sleep to post a gazillion pa-
:smalleek:
[AbrahamSimpsonWalksInThenOut.gif]
I'll, huh, come back later today.

[Astrella]

As I've said, I think everyone should post here but do be mindful of what you say. Remember what Nix Nihila and ScionOfTheVoid said in their posts, cause this thread has had quite a bit of issues with being exclusionary to queer people* as well, but it has improved a lot over the two years that I've been posting here, which I like. But yeah, everyone keep posting of course, but try to be a bit mindful. Because I really do like all the support and learning that goes on in here. :smallsmile:

*Like people being really dismissive towards non-binary folks and mocking non-binary pronouns and all that. Most of that group of regulars don't really post anymore though. And some people in the thread do sometimes get a bit too enthusiastic in discussion and can forget that they can be a bit hurtful towards people. And that sometimes does get skipped over a bit.

[Philemonite]

Oh hi there what's up today you rascals have done it again you always wait until I go to sleep to post a gazillion pa-
:smalleek:
[AbrahamSimpsonWalksInThenOut.gif]
I'll, huh, come back later today.

Just what I was gonna say.:smalltongue:

I am... speechless, and people that know me can tell you that does not happen. Ever.
So, I posted a joke, and Kindablue and Socratov responded with a joke, and it was funny. I really don't understand how that almost turned into a flame war. Next time I make a joke I hope nobody answers.:smallwink:
Thank the gods (and goddesses) that it's over now, and we will never mention it again.

[Urist]

So, question:

One my friends has asked to start being identified by gender neutral pronouns, specifically xe. How does one pronounce such a thing? As zi? Or as something else strange I'm not thinking of?

[mistformsquirrl]

"Zee" is how I've always pronounced that kind of thing... though to be fair I've usually seen it spelled zie.*

That said the best solution is probably to just ask your friend "How do you want me to pronounce this?" <. .>

*Not sure why tbh <o.O> I'm sure there's a good reason.

[Urist]

Oh sure, and I will when I see xem(?), but was hoping to just do it right the first time. I am going to screw this up soooo much for the first couple weeks...

[mistformsquirrl]

Totally understandable hehe >.< the fact that you're trying says good things imo. Lotta people are just jerks when asked for that kind of consideration <._.>

[Kindablue]

Just what I was gonna say.:smalltongue:

I am... speechless, and people that know me can tell you that does not happen. Ever.
So, I posted a joke, and Kindablue and Socratov responded with a joke, and it was funny. I really don't understand how that almost turned into a flame war. Next time I make a joke I hope nobody answers.:smallwink:
Thank the gods (and goddesses) that it's over now, and we will never mention it again.

I was thinking of that cheesy W.C. Fields line when I ran into this: Trans Comedy is a Serious Business (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/posts/Trans-Comedy-is-a-serious-business)

Seems like a really interesting project that I'm surprised I hadn't heard of before.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

So, question:

One my friends has asked to start being identified by gender neutral pronouns, specifically xe. How does one pronounce such a thing? As zi? Or as something else strange I'm not thinking of?

According to this page (http://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com/tag/ze-and-zir/), "zi" or "zee" is close enough:


“Xe,” it turns out, is supposed to be pronounced the same as “ze” – apparently it was an aesthetic change in order to distance the pronoun from its “sie/hir” roots one step further.

[Astrella]

So, question:

One my friends has asked to start being identified by gender neutral pronouns, specifically xe. How does one pronounce such a thing? As zi? Or as something else strange I'm not thinking of?

Probably best to just ask them through speech if you can to make sure?

[Urist]

As I said, I will, but wanted to at least try to do it right the first time, to minimize the amount of trouble/having to correct me.

[noparlpf]

I want to hug you right now. Is that okay?

In better news, I got a letter from the london clinic a coupla days back. The ball is finally rolling. I need to get an appointment at the doctors to check a coupla things, then I can send the form off to them and wait anxiously for a bit longer before things will actually start happening.

Hey, congrats. Good luck with the next parts.


Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

Hey there.


Entirely because I am from a country where 24 degrees Celsius is considered a sign of the end of the world, but that sounds outright scary to me. I'm not somehow an Ice Elemental without knowing it, am I? O.O

Nah. Upwards of 24° is when it's getting way too hot. You're not an ice elemental unless 5° the end of the world.

[Mono Vertigo]

My watch says it is Later Today o'clock, so here I am.

Welcome, Harnel! Glad your family is taking it well. :smallsmile:

[Astrella]

Mrrr, I'm a little bit nervous. I sent an email to my endo since my new dose is only half the amount of what people *start* on, so I'd like to know why my dose specifically is so low and if it can be raised cause I'd like to make progress at least... I'm just really nervous about coming over as know-it-all or anything and my brain is playing horror scenarios in my head...

-----

Also can I ask some advice / hints with regards to foundation (specifically for hiding shadow) from someone? Either here or via pm or somewhere else.


In better news, I got a letter from the london clinic a coupla days back. The ball is finally rolling. I need to get an appointment at the doctors to check a coupla things, then I can send the form off to them and wait anxiously for a bit longer before things will actually start happening.

Yay, that's great news! I hope things pick up in pace now. :smallsmile:


Alright, so, I've never posted here. I was only vaguely aware this thread existed until now.

I' a bit screwy when it comes to sexuality. Specifically, I'm a Biromantic asexual male to female transexual. I've known about my asexuality for a few years now, but I only recently (a few months ago) put the pieces together for my transexuality, and started coming out to my family and friends, who are mostly taking it well.

So, um, hi?

Hello. :smallsmile:

Glad to know they're all reacting well, and welcome. :smallsmile:

[Eldest]

Entirely because I am from a country where 24 degrees Celsius is considered a sign of the end of the world, but that sounds outright scary to me. I'm not somehow an Ice Elemental without knowing it, am I? O.O

Oh, it was 90 degrees in Fahrenheit, so 32ish in Celsius.

[noparlpf]

Mrrr, I'm a little bit nervous. I sent an email to my endo since my new dose is only half the amount of what people *start* on, so I'd like to know why my dose specifically is so low and if it can be raised cause I'd like to make progress at least... I'm just really nervous about coming over as know-it-all or anything and my brain is playing horror scenarios in my head...

Are you sure? It probably also depends on age and weight. Good to ask, though.

[Astrella]

Are you sure? It probably also depends on age and weight. Good to ask, though.

I'm pretty sure, everyone I asked about it in the big trans* network for the low lands commented on how unusual it was. :/

[Lea Plath]

@mistformsquirrl: I checked out your dA and it is super cool! I am now watching you. Like a spider watches a fly, but nicer!

Now, is it bad that I like and want to dress in both 3 piece suits and flapper outfits after seeing the Great Gatsby? Yes, I know it isn't bad and damn, I'm a huge Gatsby fanperson

[noparlpf]

I'm pretty sure, everyone I asked about it in the big trans* network for the low lands commented on how unusual it was. :/

Huh. You were on a different one just before, right? Might be that you were previously on another one, and need to transition between the two drugs? I'm just wildly speculating. Hopefully you'll hear back with an actual doctor's answer soon.
Remind me which one you're switching to? I'm curious now and want to look it up.

[Astrella]

Huh. You were on a different one just before, right? Might be that you were previously on another one, and need to transition between the two drugs? I'm just wildly speculating. Hopefully you'll hear back with an actual doctor's answer soon.
Remind me which one you're switching to? I'm curious now and want to look it up.

That makes not that much sense though I think cause my next checkup in in 6 months, which sames way too long. Not to mention that others just get started on this dose with no build up at all.

I was on Ethinylestradiol, I am on Androcur (anti-androgen) and Progynova (brand name, it's estradialvalerate).

[noparlpf]

That makes not that much sense though I think cause my next checkup in in 6 months, which sames way too long. Not to mention that others just get started on this dose with no build up at all.

I was on Ethinylestradiol, I am on Androcur (anti-androgen) and Progynova (brand name, it's estradialvalerate).

No idea, I was just coming up with random ideas. Uh, are they pills? Dosage varies depending on how you take it.

[Astrella]

No idea, I was just coming up with random ideas. Uh, are they pills? Dosage varies depending on how you take it.

They're pills again but most of the people I've mentioned it to take pills as well. Also I think we might want to be careful, cause this is straining pretty close to medical advice. >.>

[noparlpf]

Weird. Yeah, wait on your doctor's response.

[Zorg]

Also can I ask some advice / hints with regards to foundation (specifically for hiding shadow) from someone? Either here or via pm or somewhere else.

This video is really good for basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6vs7Vmqk40), mostly because she shows it in action (and her videos are all quite good actually). This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPySlqC0mDk) is Trans* specific.
This video has good tips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp8iludH1Wg) for shaping eyebrows with foundation (which I've done and it does work), and this one has about selecting your colour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4JRJw6DIs).

My personal tips are keep it light in sense of if you overdose (cake it on, heavy layering as opposed to looking 'loud') it can crack and make you sweat which will run. Better to get multiple products or spot apply to areas than go heavy everywhere.
I just use a foundation (Revlon Colourstay Ivory) and a powder over that (L'oreal something something) with some lipstick and with careful application can cover up any shadow I have. I've got this book (http://www.amazon.com/Retro-Makeup-Techniques-Applying-Vintage/dp/0981663923) and it's a great guide to multiple makeup techniques from the basics up, not just the more ostentatious and iconic retro styles.

And speaking of me, a more recent picture:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/picmd_zps012c142c.jpg

[Heliomance]

And speaking of me, a more recent picture:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/picmd_zps012c142c.jpg

Oh good, you're not actually an unholy revenant. That's a relief. You're rather pretty when you actually look alive!

[Philemonite]

This video is really good for basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6vs7Vmqk40), mostly because she shows it in action (and her videos are all quite good actually). This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPySlqC0mDk) is Trans* specific.
This video has good tips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp8iludH1Wg) for shaping eyebrows with foundation (which I've done and it does work), and this one has about selecting your colour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4JRJw6DIs).

My personal tips are keep it light in sense of if you overdose (cake it on, heavy layering as opposed to looking 'loud') it can crack and make you sweat which will run. Better to get multiple products or spot apply to areas than go heavy everywhere.
I just use a foundation (Revlon Colourstay Ivory) and a powder over that (L'oreal something something) with some lipstick and with careful application can cover up any shadow I have. I've got this book (http://www.amazon.com/Retro-Makeup-Techniques-Applying-Vintage/dp/0981663923) and it's a great guide to multiple makeup techniques from the basics up, not just the more ostentatious and iconic retro styles.

And speaking of me, a more recent picture:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/picmd_zps012c142c.jpg

You look good, definitely better then the undead look.:smallwink:

[Castaras]

And speaking of me, a more recent picture:

I'm surrounded by so many pretty ladies with gorgeous hair. Damnit, y'all are making me jealous.

[Astrella]

This video is really good for basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6vs7Vmqk40), mostly because she shows it in action (and her videos are all quite good actually). This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPySlqC0mDk) is Trans* specific.
This video has good tips (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp8iludH1Wg) for shaping eyebrows with foundation (which I've done and it does work), and this one has about selecting your colour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_4JRJw6DIs).

My personal tips are keep it light in sense of if you overdose (cake it on, heavy layering as opposed to looking 'loud') it can crack and make you sweat which will run. Better to get multiple products or spot apply to areas than go heavy everywhere.
I just use a foundation (Revlon Colourstay Ivory) and a powder over that (L'oreal something something) with some lipstick and with careful application can cover up any shadow I have. I've got this book (http://www.amazon.com/Retro-Makeup-Techniques-Applying-Vintage/dp/0981663923) and it's a great guide to multiple makeup techniques from the basics up, not just the more ostentatious and iconic retro styles.

And speaking of me, a more recent picture:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/picmd_zps012c142c.jpg

Thank you~

Also your pictures get lovelier and lovelier. Your hairstyle and that smile suit you very well. :smallsmile:


Oh good, you're not actually an unholy revenant. That's a relief. You're rather pretty when you actually look alive!

This is clearly just her day-form.

[SaintRidley]

Loving your hair, Zorg. Super cute!

[mistformsquirrl]

@mistformsquirrl: I checked out your dA and it is super cool! I am now watching you. Like a spider watches a fly, but nicer!

*blush* Why thank you! <^o^>;