Lowering Caster Level

[Ruethgar]

I've seen many ways to increase caster level and a few to manipulate spell level up and down, but is there a way to lower caster level? Honestly just want it for a free magic item by legal means. It is doable at level one with ease, but at low levels I don't want to use up feats on crafting. So are there any feats or abilities like sanctum spell and earth spell for caster level instead of spell level?

[Curmudgeon]

You don't need any feats.
You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

[Ruethgar]

So caster level 0 for a level two spell continuously active without space requirement. ((2*0*2000)^2)*2=0 cost. Danke!

[Harrow]

Well, Words of Creation from the Book of Exalted Deeds and Open Least Chakra (Hands) from the Magic of Incarnum can both give you a free +1 to caster level on magic items under certain circumstances.

As far as bypassing the minimum caster level limit, I don't know a whole lot. An Artificer can make an item with a caster level 2 below the minimum. You may be able to combine a few tricks to lower the spell level of something below 0 and caster level to 0 and make a free magic item in a day, but I don't think most DMs would go for and, and if they did, what are you going to do with a wand of a first or zero level spell at caster level zero?

[Bakkan]

So caster level 0 for a level two spell continuously active without space requirement. ((2*0*2000)^2)*2=0 cost. Danke!

No, because a caster level of 3 is insuficient to cast a level 2 spell. Furthermore, the magic item creation guuidelines are guidelines and not rules, and the primary method for determining the price of an item is to compare it to similar published items. If you can find an item that provides a continuous level 2 effect for anything close to 0 gp, you have my congratulations.

[Mando Knight]

So caster level 0 for a level two spell continuously active without space requirement. ((2*0*2000)^2)*2=0 cost. Danke!

Wrong!

The caster level must at least equal the minimum required for casting the spell. In this case, 3 for a prepared caster.

[Ruethgar]

Level 0.5 wizard, caster level 0, with Precocious Apprentice for the ability to cast a 2nd level spell at caster level 0.

[Harrow]

Level 0.5 wizard, caster level 0, with Precocious Apprentice for the ability to cast a 2nd level spell at caster level 0.

Wait, what?

[NeoPhoenix0]

Level 0.5 wizard, caster level 0, with Precocious Apprentice for the ability to cast a 2nd level spell at caster level 0.

Wrong again, Precocious Apprentice has a prerequisite of caster level 1. So you still need a caster level 1 for that spell. If you gain the ability to cast second level spells normally you lose that benefit too, making it minimum caster level 3 again.

Edit: Also what item are you trying to make. Most items, except scrolls and potions I think, have a minimum caster level requirement.

[Ruethgar]

Magical Training for a caster level of both 1st and 0.

[Verte]

No, because Precocious Apprentice clearly states as its prerequisite that the character must be at least level 1 in an arcane class, and that it may only be taken as a 1st level character - so someone who multiclasses into say, wizard, can't take the feat. It also states that "your caster level with this spell is your normal caster level", so all indications point to a caster level of 1 being the minimum caster level in this case.

EDIT: Again, Magical Training states that you "are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast."

[NeoPhoenix0]

Benefit

You can cast three 0-level arcane spells per day as either a sorcerer or wizard (your choice, so long as you have a score of at least 10 in the ability that controls the spellcasting for that class). You must make this decision when you first take the feat. Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure chance if you wear armor and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast. If you choose to cast spells as a sorcerer, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Cha modifier. You know two 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list. If you choose to cast spells as a wizard, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Int modifier. You have a spellbook with three 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/ wizard list. You prepare your spells exactly as a wizard does.

Your minimum caster level is still one so you can't create your 0 caster level item that way.

[Marnath]

There is no such thing as caster level 0 either. You either have a CL of 1 or greater, or you don't have a CL at all. There's also no such thing as taking 0.5 of a level. Finally, you have to get your DM to approve all custom items. Which probably isn't going to happen since you're just interested in cheating.

[mattie_p]

There is no such thing as caster level 0 either. You either have a CL of 1 or greater, or you don't have a CL at all. There's also no such thing as taking 0.5 of a level. Finally, you have to get your DM to approve all custom items. Which probably isn't going to happen since you're just interested in cheating.

I don't think we have to say cheating. Looking for tricks and loopholes is one of the board's favorite activities after all. But I think we've succeeded in closing that non-existent loophole.

EDIT: and yet it is possible to have a caster level of 0. 4 levels of wizard + mage slayer feat (Complete Arcane) = caster level 0.

[Ruethgar]

Alternately, Sanctum Prestidigitation, Read Magic, and Detect Magic on Command Word(s). Price:-18900gp.

DMG has rules for multiclassing at level 1 hence 0.5 level wizard and 0.5 level of I left it out because it isn't important. There-in it also says that level based class features are treated as level 0 in addition to the general rule in D&D that if it doesn't say rounded up it is probably rounded down when it would be detrimental to do so.

Thank you mattie_p that is the type of thing I was looking for.

[mattie_p]

Thank you mattie_p that is the type of thing I was looking for.

Beware that most spells have duration based on the caster level. Prestidigitation is one of the few exceptions.

[Verte]

You mean the rules on pages 40-41 of the DMG from 3E - not 3.5?

And no, if your caster level was effectively 0, then both read magic and detect magic would have a duration of 0 and therefore wouldn't do anything. In addition, for purposes of determining gold piece values, 0-level spells are counted as 1/2.

EDIT: Plus, magic item creation feats have minimum caster levels.

[Ruethgar]

Yeah, makes it a whole hell of a lot less cheesy if you are the caster crafter with that feat, would have to pick a choose with great care to remain viable in combat if indeed it is even possible.

Indeed, 0 level spells are counted as 1/2 for crafting, but sanctum spell lowers the spell level outside of the sanctum by one. So a level zero is now a negative one spell level being multiplied by all positive factors results in a negative cost. With that you can have a massive caster level and detect/read magic as continuous in addition to whatever other effect(s) you wanted to add to bring it back to a positive price.

[Harrow]

Just remember, the guidlines aren't rules, they are vague suggestions on how to price custom magic items. Without custom magic items, I think with a few shenanigans you can set it up so by RAW you can make scrolls and wands to make XP and money, but this is one of the cheesiest things I have ever heard. More so than a warforged making profession checks for eternity, arguably moreso than Wish-looping because it can be set up at a lower level.

[Verte]

No, that just means the spells on the item would stop working outside of the sanctum. Plus, if you're taking the Mage Slayer feat as a Wizard 4/[Something Else] 2 - remember, the minimum BAB for that feat is +3, so you have to multiclass - than almost all of your spells would be ineffective. Now, tell me, is this just TO or are you planning to try to do this in a real campaign?

[Ruethgar]

I can't find where a negative spell level means it does not work. Fire Elf Blood Feat(AEG's Feats) for +1 BAB, no need to multiclass, does require you be an elf, but then you can pay to have your racial feats rewritten(Lords of Madness I think) for some great benefit. Mostly TO, maybe one item of prestidigitation just for fun.