Bit of low-level wizard cheese- any holes?

[Slide]

I'm trying to see if this would work, assuming a mentally imbalanced DM:

Human Wizard:
Precocious Apprentice, Scorch
Reserve Feat, Fiery Burst
Domain Wizard, Fire

Said wizard can now cast 3d6 miniature fireballs at whim, yes?

EDIT: Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Domain Wizard raises caster level, not spell level.

[Tvtyrant]

Looks fair to me. You are still only doing as much damage as a greatsword wielding Barbarian who doesn't have the Whirling Frenzy variant, but it is pretty good regardless.

[RogueDM]

As a mentally imbalanced DM, I approve. At first level that's a laudable achievement for any wizard. All passes the smell test. A bit of cheese, but no Limburger.

[Marnath]

I'm trying to see if this would work, assuming a mentally imbalanced DM:

Human Wizard:
Precocious Apprentice, Scorch
Reserve Feat, Fiery Burst
Domain Wizard, Fire

Said wizard can now cast 3d6 miniature fireballs at whim, yes?

EDIT: Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Domain Wizard raises caster level, not spell level.

2d6 fire damage in a 2x2 grid every round forever at level 1 is still pretty neat.

[Jigokuro]

Hehe, I did something far worse with fiery burst recently.I use The Cheat to have, basically, my highest level spell be the same as my character level from 4 on. At level 5 I was exploding 5d6 areas every turn.

But that isn't so bad; I also took arcane thesis (shivering touch) and later 1-shot a wyrn by stacking reach, invis, split ray, and empower on it.:smallbiggrin:

[Aracor]

Reach spell doesn't create a ray, so you can't split ray it. It simply allows you to fling it 30' with a ranged touch attack.

Basically: All rays are ranged touch attacks. Not all ranged touch attacks are rays.

[Cheiromancer]

There might be a hole in this trick. Precocious Apprentice is oddly worded:


Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school of magic you have access to. You gain an extra 2nd-level spell slot that must be used initially to cast only the chosen spell.

The Precocious Apprentice feat does not give you knowledge of the spell or allow you to prepare it. The fiery burst reserve feat requires you to "have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast". Complete Mage, page 37, states that if you are a spontaneous caster 'available to cast' means that you know the spell and have an available spell slot. If you are a prepared caster you have to have prepared the spell in the appropriate slot. The Precocious Apprentice feat does not appear to qualify under either count.

Also, one could read Precocious Apprentice as allowing you to use the spell slot to cast that spell and nothing else; you can't do other things with that spell, like power reserve feats or qualify for prestige classes.

[Marnath]

There might be a hole in this trick. Precocious Apprentice is oddly worded:



The Precocious Apprentice feat does not give you knowledge of the spell or allow you to prepare it. The fiery burst reserve feat requires you to "have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast". Complete Mage, page 37, states that if you are a spontaneous caster 'available to cast' means that you know the spell and have an available spell slot. If you are a prepared caster you have to have prepared the spell in the appropriate slot. The Precocious Apprentice feat does not appear to qualify under either count.

Also, one could read Precocious Apprentice as allowing you to use the spell slot to cast that spell and nothing else; you can't do other things with that spell, like power reserve feats or qualify for prestige classes.

Don't be absurd. If you can cast it, then it's a spell slot. A slot that can only hold that spell, but that's the only spell you need it to hold.

[Cheiromancer]

I misunderstood the intent of the combo. It seems that Precocious Apprentice gives you the ability to cast 2nd level spells, even if you can't prepare 2nd level spells. (Just like Imbue with Spell Ability can give a character the ability to cast spells he can't prepare.)

But when you can cast 2nd level spells, Domain Wizard gives you a 2nd level spell slot that can only be used for spells of that domain. When you are able to cast 2nd level spells, Domain Wizard also gives you knowledge of scorching ray. The scorching ray can be prepared in the bonus spell slot, and that allows you to use the reserve feat.

According to this reasoning, not only does the reserve feat work, but in case of emergency you can cast scorching ray.

One thing I wonder about is when Precocious Apprentice ceases giving the ability to cast scorch. As written, the ability it grants (the ability to cast 2nd level spells) also triggers a change in the feat's effect which prevents it from giving the ability to cast scorch. However, suppose 'can cast 2nd level spells' means 'has a 2nd level spell slot as a class feature'. That stops Precocious Apprentice from self-destructing. That's the way I like to read it.

But then there is another problem. As soon as Domain Wizard gives you a 2nd level spell slot, Precocious Apprentice ceases giving you the ability to cast scorch. That's because Domain Wizard gives you a 2nd level spell slot as a class ability. I don't think that Domain Wizard withdraws the 2nd level spell slot- once you have it, you have the ability to cast 2nd level spells. You just can't cast scorch anymore. On the plus side, you have a 2nd level spell slot - the one provided by Precocious Apprentice - that can be used for any 2nd level spell you can prepare. A second scorching ray, say.

Of course, if 'can cast 2nd level spells' means 'can cast 2nd level spells as a class feature' then Precocious Apprentice doesn't trigger the bonus spell slot from Domain Wizard. So the reading that prevents Precocious Apprentice from self-destructing also prevents the trick from working.

It's tricky. The rules for Domain Wizard say that you get a bonus spell for every spell level. Read literally that means you already get a 2nd level spell slot at first level. And a bonus spell slot of every higher level. Now *that* is absurd!

[Slide]

Hehe, I did something far worse with fiery burst recently.I use The Cheat to have, basically, my highest level spell be the same as my character level from 4 on. At level 5 I was exploding 5d6 areas every turn.


That would be the intent of that feat in the first place, yes.

[TuggyNE]

That would be the intent of that feat in the first place, yes.

Not exactly; at level 5 one should only be spamming 3d6 bursts, at most. :smalltongue: