Getting a Divine Portfolio that you don't want

[Clistenes]

Lets say the Paladin 5/Favored Soul 5/Fist of Raziel 10/Silver Exorcist 10/Inquisitor 10 Quasi-Deity Human Male Bobby slays Grossimus, the Forgotten God of Necrophilia, Incest, Zoophilia and Cannibalism.

Since Bobby is a Quasi-Deity, he gets the Divine Portfolio of Grossimus. But he doesn't want that creepy Portfolio.

What happens now?

Does Grossimus' Portfolio automatically change to adapt to Bobby's personality (and Bobby becomes the God of Proper Funerary Practices, Lawful Marriages, Animal Husbandry and Barbecues)? (sort of like happened to Finder Wyvernspurn).

Does Grossimus' Portfolio automatically corrupt Bobby, turning him into a Dark (and perverted) God (sort of like what happened to Selvetarm).

Does Bobby have to keep the Portfolio, even if it doesn't fit him, but it doesn't corrupt him?
If so, can Bobby choose to not seek worshippers and not to champion the values of Grossimus' Portfolio? Will he eventually lose the Portfolio? Will he lose Grossimus' Divinity too? Or could he keep his Divinity while living anonimously as a mortal?

Or do you think that a God/Demi-god/Quasi-god can't take a Portfolio incompatible to his alignment at all?

How do you think it should be?

[Immabozo]

That god deserves to have been slain, just want to throw that out there.

I would think that he shouldn't be stuck with anything he doesn't want. But if he is, he should be able to stop everything in those portfolios from happening, since they are gross and wrong and he just starts getting a reputation and worshipers and creates some kind of "righting the wrongs" portfolio.

[JoshuaZ]

This is I think completely up to the rules in setting. In major settings that do allow taking over another divinity one sees some mix of both (as you noted in your original post). This is very much a discuss with the DM sort of situation.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Since Bobby is a Quasi-Deity, he gets the Divine Portfolio of Grossimus.
Why? If you can answer that, then you can figure out what should happen. If it's a matter of the gods embodying fundamental forces that must have representation at all times, then I suggest that the portfolio consumes Bobby and he changes alignment (and possibly other features) to match. If it's simply a matter of "to the victor go the spoils", then possibly your reinterpretation solution would work, or else it may be possible to completely change one's portfolio as one wishes.

[Glimbur]

You could also make an argument that the divine power comes from being acknowledged as the god of Necrophilia, Incest, Zoophilia and Cannibalism. If you want the power, you have to champion the cause. Otherwise it... appoints a worthy successor? Can be found in the Astral plane? Disappears, but leaves a hole so that someone can be worshiped enough to become the new god of Necrophilia, Incest, Zoophilia and Cannibalism?

As stated, though, it really depends on why/how the Portfolio gets inherited.

[Mishkov]

Either way having knowledge of several weeks in advance and past of the world's necrophilia, incest, zoophilia and cannibalism sounds like a good reason not to pull the trigger on that forgotten god.

[Flickerdart]

I don't know if there are any precedents for redeeming a portfolio (Kelemvor is a nicer death god than Myrkul was, but they're both still death gods). If you're willing to make something up, how about this:
A deity consists of two things - a powerful being, and a seed of divinity that grants it even greater power over a particular domain. By slaying said being, the paladin gains the divinity, but is by no means obligated to use it. Clerics worshiping Grossimus now find their prayers unanswered. While the paladin is not obligated to adopt the mantle of Icky Stuff, he can gain no benefit unless he does so. Naturally, since he still carries the seed, all sorts of bad guys are going to want to kill him and take it, and perhaps the sacrifices and prayers meant for Grossimus form some kind of shadow duplicate of Grossimus as his worshipers knew him, whose only purpose is to reclaim the divinity from the paladin.


Either way having knowledge of several weeks in advance and past of the world's necrophilia, incest, zoophilia and cannibalism sounds like a good reason not to pull the trigger on that forgotten god.
I imagine that the hundredth time some orc out there munches on the corpse of an enemy orc, you're going to start wishing you could set thresholds for the alerts.

[Marnath]

Lets say the Paladin 5/Favored Soul 5/Fist of Raziel 10/Silver Exorcist 10/Inquisitor 10 Quasi-Deity Human Male Bobby slays Grossimus, the Forgotten God of Necrophilia, Incest, Zoophilia and Cannibalism.

Since Bobby is a Quasi-Deity, he gets the Divine Portfolio of Grossimus. But he doesn't want that creepy Portfolio.

What happens now?

Does Grossimus' Portfolio automatically change to adapt to Bobby's personality (and Bobby becomes the God of Proper Funerary Practices, Lawful Marriages, Animal Husbandry and Barbecues)? (sort of like happened to Finder Wyvernspurn).

Does Grossimus' Portfolio automatically corrupt Bobby, turning him into a Dark (and perverted) God (sort of like what happened to Selvetarm).

Does Bobby have to keep the Portfolio, even if it doesn't fit him, but it doesn't corrupt him?
If so, can Bobby choose to not seek worshippers and not to champion the values of Grossimus' Portfolio? Will he eventually lose the Portfolio? Will he lose Grossimus' Divinity too? Or could he keep his Divinity while living anonimously as a mortal?

Or do you think that a God/Demi-god/Quasi-god can't take a Portfolio incompatible to his alignment at all?

How do you think it should be?

According to Faiths and Pantheons, Finder Wyvernspur has several rival deities who want to take the portfolio(rot) from him. Given that it is not listed under the portfolio he is actually worshiped for, I take that to mean that he retains ownership of it without having to use it. It's worth noting that he not only stole Moander's portfolio, but his divine spark. So Bobby, having slain Grossimus, likely advances to divine rank 1, or in other words he becomes a true deity. He then selects his own portfolio, while possibly drawing divine power anonymously(potentially even unknowingly) from people whose actions support the domain of Grossimus.



I imagine that the hundredth time some orc out there munches on the corpse of an enemy orc, you're going to start wishing you could set thresholds for the alerts.

A demi-power only senses events that involve 1,000 or more people, and only in the present sense. You have to go all the way to intermediate to see into the past.

[Cirrylius]

My personal take, and obviously not canon in any way:

I've wondered about this, myself. The most interesting conclusion I could draw is that if a non-deity usurps the powers of a god, and willfully neglects part of their portfolio, it leaves them, permanently.

...before reforming itself (on the Astral, or somewhere in the Hinterlands) as a rampaging semi-sapient quasi-deity exemplifying the principles of the portfolio:smallamused:

I've always imagined that Gods aren't just intelligences that rule certain arbitrary aspects of reality. They're the face and figurehead of a cosmic energy current; even if denied an identity, the principles remain. An attempt to ignore or dam that kind of potentiality would be doomed to failure. Even if it weren't, the result of successfully removing it from the world would be utterly unpredictable at best, and horrendously destructive at worst, akin to blocking off a vein or artery in the human body at random.

Again, just my 2cp.

[tyckspoon]

Personally: Gods are about some basic aspect of life, but how that aspect is manifested changes as it gets channeled through different personalities. For one of the most readily available examples, look at the various gods that handle the 'death' portfolio in the Forgotten Realms. Cyric and Myrkul were Death Gods- they accepted or fully encouraged murder to add to their realms and their priests fit pretty well within the 'crazy priest sacrifices people' imagery. Kelemvor takes the same basic mandate- oversight of death and the dying- and acts as a God of the Dead instead. His dogma is to shepherd people through their deaths and see that they get the rites necessary to wind up wherever they're supposed to go. Much more pleasant (if less adventure-seed-making) fellow, and he does it with the same divine power that Myrkul and Cyric did.

So.. I'd say look beyond the surface of Grossimus's portfolio and see what kind of common theme he had. To me, it looks kind of like attraction. Perhaps Paladin Bobby the Grossimus Slayer becomes Saint Bobby, defender of romance and an ally of the setting's existing god/dess of love? Or maybe he's the patron of people with unusual hobbies and obsessions (Oh holy Bobby, please let there be something good at today's Adventurer Memorabilia Auction..)

[Vaz]

Your dealing with Gods. This is where, if it hasn't already, the game breaks down into stupidness where spellcasters conflicts are resolved over a cup of chai in each other's living room, rolling Intelligence checks.

Say to your DM, right, I have the Divine portfolio, I am now going to Sanctify it. There's the Sanctify the wicked spell and sanctified template. You can either modify where you could say that now you've removed the Portfolio, what happens to its followers? That's an excellent plot hook, if eveer I spied one.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'd incline towards Finder's solution: basically, you have the spark, and you reinterpret parts of your portfolio while leaving other aspects unreclaimed. Three of the four aspects of the deity's portfolio are based on corrupted love, so your deity can dig into the base aspect and form a portfolio of its own, in terms of love (chivalric love, unrequited or not; basically, he'd be the god to which many of the literary romance figures would elevate a prayer), while leaving cannibalism on the air.

Of course, he'd have to start all over again, but he might have some degree of leverage. For example: most of the greater deities (particularly the one that sponsored him, unless he was sponsored by the Powers of Good, which would vouch for his purity) would realize this, and choose to accept him or turn him into an enemy. Most likely, Raziel (the patron archon Bobby follows) would appear towards the new god and offer his aid, maybe asking you to serve as a proxy to grant powers, and in exchange he'll direct people to your worship. Not only that, as a force of pure good, he'll serve as a conscience of sorts, talking as an equal from now on.

You'll probably have problems with the cultists of said "forgotten" deity (note that he's forgotten for some reason, so his followers are few and far between), but given that you'll have a few allies around, you'll be fine.

Personally, Bobby would make a fine god of chivalry and purity. Bobby is a Paladin, so he's a knight first and foremost; his stint as Fist of Raziel means he's devoted to slay evil, but Raziel is also merciful. I presume that "Silver Exorcist" is either Sacred Exorcist or Exorcist of the Silver Flame (the latter refluffed), both of which involve removing corruption, hence purity. The Inquisitor PrC might probably relate to Church Inquisitor, which involves purity within the faith. And, finally, you turn the former deity's portfolios regarding corrupted love and lust into pure love, including platonic love interests (which ties somewhat into chivalry). Thus, Bobby would be the demi-god of chivalric love, personal purity and fidelity, which would replace the portfolios of the former deity. However, if he were to fall, he still has the old portfolios up for grabs.

[Clistenes]

According to Faiths and Pantheons, Finder Wyvernspur has several rival deities who want to take the portfolio(rot) from him. Given that it is not listed under the portfolio he is actually worshiped for, I take that to mean that he retains ownership of it without having to use it. It's worth noting that he not only stole Moander's portfolio, but his divine spark. So Bobby, having slain Grossimus, likely advances to divine rank 1, or in other words he becomes a true deity. He then selects his own portfolio, while possibly drawing divine power anonymously(potentially even unknowingly) from people whose actions support the domain of Grossimus.

Finder is an interesting example. He started with the Rot, Death, Decay and Corruption and has reinterpreted it as Cycle of Life, Growth, Rebirth, and Change, because rotting is part of the Cycle of Life, and fungus and mold Grows and decompose dead things into earth so new things can grow, which is a kind of Rebirth, and of course that means Change, too.

Then he has added yet another twist and has taken Artistic Renewal for his portafolio because hey, it's a form of Growth, Rebirth, and Change, isn't it? And that way he has managed to get an element he is really interested in...

[JoshuaZ]

Finder is an interesting example. He started with the Rot, Death, Decay and Corruption and has reinterpreted it as Cycle of Life, Growth, Rebirth, and Change, because rotting is part of the Cycle of Life, and fungus and mold Grows and decompose dead things into earth so new things can grow, which is a kind of Rebirth, and of course that means Change, too.

The he has added another twist and has added Artistic Renewal to his portafolio because hey, it's a form of Growth, Rebirth, and Change, isn't it? And that way he has managed to get an element he is really interested in...

There's another aspect which happened with Finder, a reflection of that he as a character has grown. He was obsessed with his works or himself living beyond him, and he's grown to accept that everything needs to change. So there's a slight narrative/literary aspect of what is going on there. Not that that should really impact rules for divine portfolios.

[Sapreaver]

You could be the god of those things and seek to prevent them with the 6 weeks of divine knowledge. Thus still being a god of those things but more prevention than supportive.

[Devils_Advocate]

A god of light and a god of darkness are both concerned with how illuminated things are. They both hold sway over the same aspect of the world, and in that sense are gods of the same thing. Likewise for a god of peace and a god of war, or a god of transgressions and a god of taboos. They may have different teachings and even different powers depending on how they regulate whatever they're empowered to regulate, but by regulating a thing they're pretty necessarily also regulating its opposite.