Indestrable Character

[kreenlover]

So, for anyone who got the reference, cookies.
For those who didn't, it means indestructible. That us the point of this thread. To build a better indestrable character (and indestrable is easier to spell, so indestrabale it is)

Now, this all started with me thinking about how trolls convert damage to subdual damage because of their regeneration. Then, I looked at the warshaper class. It is immune to stunning, which in 4e is the same as nonlethal.

So, in my mind this means that said troll takes no damage from most attacks if it has enough levels in warshaper. Imagine my sadness when I discovered that this was not the truth. However, it started me down the path that led me to this thread.

Then I found troll blooded, and energy immunity via templates and stuff.
So then my friends pointed out that it can be killed by death effects, ability damage, and level drain. Cue larger search net. Then, I realized that some spells can avoid all of that (such as wish) and just scrub them from existence. Cue even larger search net. My result is below. I am looking for suggestions to improve it.

Not sure if this has been done before, but here we go:

race is unimportant
Add a flaw
Add toughness
add Trollblooded (gets regeneration vs acid, fire)
add Gheden (+1 LA, immune to nonlethal, immune to negative energy effects, more immunities, yadda yadda)
add Voidmind (+3 LA immune to ability damage and drain, immune to acid, SR, immune to mind affecting, plus more goodies)
add Half Iron golem(any LA? or just pay the cost to buy one, for fire damage healing you, and spell immunity basically)
This makes you immune to everything basically. Add warforged as base race for all those living construct subtype goodies (this does not make it impossible to get these templates) and you can never die of old age as well.

So, in summary, we have immune to damage, immune to spells, immune to aging, immune to SU, immune to negative energy, immune to ability damage/drain, and I believe immune to death effects is added from the half undead. correct me if I am wrong on that last.

I think that I have created an effectively unkillable character for a very low LA (+4) so ecl 5(not coutning the golem arm, couln't find the LA or cost anywhere) (and add a level of any class for the laughs).
Correct me if I am wrong please, but I think the only way to beat this guy is to just lock him down and take advantage of his low HP count

[Tanuki Tales]

That build needs more clockwork construct in it. :smallamused:

But in seriousness, have you ever heard of the Emerald Legion?

[GreenSerpent]

Half Golem was updated to give 3.5 Golem Magic immunity - it grants infinite SR, not immunity to all magic.

EDIT: Evidently I took my last level in Ninja.

[kreenlover]

RIGHT! forgot to source that as more of my inspiration (I also built half of this independently before I ever saw the emerald legion). I also forgot to add that I was hoping that this could be playable at low levels, and be entirely PC oriented.

Thanks again

[Tanuki Tales]

RIGHT! forgot to source that as more of my inspiration (I also built half of this independently before I ever saw the emerald legion). I also forgot to add that I was hoping that this could be playable at low levels, and be entirely PC oriented.

Thanks again

I was suggesting the TO more as something to look over for ideas if you hadn't read it yet than as something to try and directly replicate and play.

[Sgt. Cookie]

ECL 5? Not bad, not bad at all. But, I see your ECL 5 and lower it to ECL 2. Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833) Dread Barbarian at the bottom is the way. The rest is just explaining what you get and why.

I concede that your way has more immunities. Two more, to be excact. But, my way is a hell of a lot cheaper. ECL wise.

[Emperor Tippy]

Shapechange -> Zodar -> Wish -> Scroll of Ice Assassin of an Aleax of you -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Fusion -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Astral Seed -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Thought Bottle -> Use Power Stone of of Fusion on Ice Assassin -> Use Power Stone of Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle -> Kill yourself -> Return from Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle to regain lost level.

There you go, now the only one who can ever harm you is you thanks to Singular Enemy (Ex). Total cost was 3,825 GP for the Scroll of Shapechange.

[Zombulian]

ECL 5? Not bad, not bad at all. But, I see your ECL 5 and lower it to ECL 2. Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259833) Dread Barbarian at the bottom is the way. The rest is just explaining what you get and why.

I concede that your way has more immunities. Two more, to be excact. But, my way is a hell of a lot cheaper. ECL wise.

... Ow. My brain.
I realize that that must actually be pretty old, never seen it before though.

[Jack_Simth]

Shapechange -> Zodar -> Wish -> Scroll of Ice Assassin of an Aleax of you -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Fusion -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Astral Seed -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Thought Bottle -> Use Power Stone of of Fusion on Ice Assassin -> Use Power Stone of Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle -> Kill yourself -> Return from Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle to regain lost level.

There you go, now the only one who can ever harm you is you thanks to Singular Enemy (Ex). Total cost was 3,825 GP for the Scroll of Shapechange.Couple of notes:
1) OP was looking for the lowest level at which you can be effectively Indestrable. If you're not 17th, you're going to need to roll UMD or a caster level check - do you have a method lower than ECL 5 (the listed OP method) do you have a method of getting one of the two reliably within WBL?
2) That only makes you immune to attack. Area hazards - lava, lightning, cliffs, high winds, et cetera - can still get you.
3) Some DMs will make the Astral Seed effect 'remember' the buff list, including durations, from when it was used. So when you come back from your Astral Seed, the Fusion resumes, times out, and you found an interesting way of duplicating Ice Assassins or an odd way of making someone mysteriously vanish off the face of the world with no immediately-apparent cause.
4) Many DMs will rule that you're effectively the same Zodar even if you're not specifically the same Zodar, so you may need to need wait a year before you can get that second Wish out of Shapechange.

[Emperor Tippy]

Couple of notes:
1) OP was looking for the lowest level at which you can be effectively Indestrable. If you're not 17th, you're going to need to roll UMD or a caster level check - do you have a method lower than ECL 5 (the listed OP method) do you have a method of getting one of the two reliably within WBL?
Yep, at level 4.

2) That only makes you immune to attack. Area hazards - lava, lightning, cliffs, high winds, et cetera - can still get you.
Somewhat debatable but you can just add in other creatures with the immunities that you want. All you need is the first shapechange.

3) Some DMs will make the Astral Seed effect 'remember' the buff list, including durations, from when it was used. So when you come back from your Astral Seed, the Fusion resumes, times out, and you found an interesting way of duplicating Ice Assassins or an odd way of making someone mysteriously vanish off the face of the world with no immediately-apparent cause.
The rules don't support that.

4) Many DMs will rule that you're effectively the same Zodar even if you're not specifically the same Zodar, so you may need to need wait a year before you can get that second Wish out of Shapechange.
Also a house rule but also irrelevant, you just wish up a CL 100 or so scroll of gate and then shift to Lilitu form and use it to Gate up multiple Solars, one of which is used to Wish up another scroll of gate.

[TuggyNE]

RIGHT! forgot to source that as more of my inspiration (I also built half of this independently before I ever saw the emerald legion). I also forgot to add that I was hoping that this could be playable at low levels, and be entirely PC oriented.

TO and "playable"/"PC-oriented" go together poorly. Know what I'm sayin'?

[kreenlover]

I know, this is more for a cheese intense campaign where they expect stuff like this.

I was more looking for advice for my build, not how to do something else involving wishes and scrolls and dubious shapechange and chances of success, I was looking for advice for a solid build that makes it impossible to be killed, to die, or that is not possible to be destroyed by one bad die roll when trying to cast from scroll.

[Emperor Tippy]

You are asking for indestructibility, pretty much anything that does what you want is the very definition of cheese.

[Flickerdart]

Half-Golem (at least, with the construct traits you're after) is LA--, unplayable.

[kreenlover]

Half-Golem (at least, with the construct traits you're after) is LA--, unplayable.

hmm. That is a problem. Any ways to get around that that you see? or ways to replace those traits in another way?

[TuggyNE]

True indestructability is one of the cornerstones of TO; while it is not inherently impossible to challenge such a character, it is rather difficult, and relies entirely on roleplaying motivations. (Well, or blatant diabolus ex machina.)

[Jack_Simth]

Yep, at level 4.

Good to know.


Somewhat debatable but you can just add in other creatures with the immunities that you want. All you need is the first shapechange.

Mostly true, however:


The rules don't support that.

Kinda. In what sense is "[X] rounds left on effect [Y]" not part of "the abilities you possessed when astral seed was manifested" if effect Y was up when you manifested Astral Seed?


Also a house rule but also irrelevant, you just wish up a CL 100 or so scroll of gate and then shift to Lilitu form and use it to Gate up multiple Solars, one of which is used to Wish up another scroll of gate.Not precisely a house-rule; the rules are simply silent on recharge times.

Oh yes, and another possible issue: You might find yourself stuck with the inability to learn that a simulacrum or ice assassin has.

[GreenSerpent]

Plus, as I pointed out above, Half-Golem grants effectively infinite SR, not complete Magic Immunity. The 3.5 update changed it.

[Max Caysey]

Shapechange -> Zodar -> Wish -> Scroll of Ice Assassin of an Aleax of you -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Fusion -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Power Stone of Astral Seed -> shift to non Zodar form -> Zodar -> Wish for a Thought Bottle -> Use Power Stone of of Fusion on Ice Assassin -> Use Power Stone of Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle -> Kill yourself -> Return from Astral Seed -> Use Thought Bottle to regain lost level.

There you go, now the only one who can ever harm you is you thanks to Singular Enemy (Ex). Total cost was 3,825 GP for the Scroll of Shapechange.

Gotta ask... What is an "Ice Assassin (of an Aleax of you)". I know the spell but dont understand the of an Aleax of you part.

And also... Where could I find the powerstones? :smallcool:

[Flickerdart]

Gotta ask... What is an "Ice Assassin (of an Aleax of you)". I know the spell but dont understand the of an Aleax of you part.

And also... Where could I find the powerstones? :smallcool:
An Aleax is a creature that a deity can create to punish someone - it's an improved clone of that person, with the notable ability that only that person can harm them. Thus, each Aleax is an Aleax of someone, so you make Ice Assassin create a copy of an Aleax that's a clone of you and that only you can hurt.

Power Stones are the psionic version of scrolls, and can be found in the Expanded Psionics Handbook and SRD.

[Max Caysey]

An Aleax is a creature that a deity can create to punish someone - it's an improved clone of that person, with the notable ability that only that person can harm them. Thus, each Aleax is an Aleax of someone, so you make Ice Assassin create a copy of an Aleax that's a clone of you and that only you can hurt.

Power Stones are the psionic version of scrolls, and can be found in the Expanded Psionics Handbook and SRD.

Thank you for the quick answer!

[The Viscount]

It occurs to me that one could attack this build with an archmage casting supernatural transformation'ed SLA graymantle, negating regeneration and opening up death by hitpoint damage. Would this work, or am I missing something?

As for the immunity to nonlethal, if you're playing as a warforged, Warforged Juggernaut gives nonlethal immunity immunity to mind-affecting, immunity to death and necromancy effects, and immunity to ability damage and drain. Granted, it takes ECL 10 until you have it all, but it's a less cheesy approach. Also, while Voidmind is an LA +3 template, it renders you under the control of 3 illithids, so that's rather a large barrier to play.

[Chronos]

Note that Warforged Juggernaut also gives immunity to Conjuration [Healing] if you take it all the way, which is probably something you'd rather not have. You can still benefit from some other forms of healing, or use the spell Lesser Humanoid Essence, but it is one more hoop to jump through.