[3.5] PrC's for an Illusionist? No Killer Gnome Builds, Please.

[PrinceOfMadness]

Getting it out of the way here. Yes, I am a gnome illusionist. No, I have no desire to go the Killer Gnome route. I'm just curious as to what PrCs might benefit a gnome wizard illusionist (not specialized in any school, if it matters). Our group is mid-optimization, so we're encouraged to perform our jobs well without smelling of cheese. We're also pretty new to 3.5 in general, so our DM generally prefers to stick as close to core as possible (other books are acceptable, but the further they get from core the more likely it is to get vetoed).

Some stuff I'm looking for in my ideal PrC would be bonuses to Concentration, Skillcraft, Knowledge, and Bluff; bonus spells or spells per day; bonuses to spell DCs; metamagic.

[Urpriest]

Master Specialist (Illusionist) gives you Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Greater Spell Focus as bonus feats, three free illusion spells added to your spellbook, +2 DC to your Will:disbelief spells, a bonus to Illusion caster level, concealment when you cast an illusion spell, and for the capstone 3/day you can cast an illusion as stilled, silent, and with Eschew materials without increasing the level. Seems to offer most of what you want. It's from Complete Mage, so while not "core" it's "close to core" by most reasonable metrics.

Edit: Ah, didn't notice the "not specialized"...yeah, if you're not specialized in illusion then it will be harder to find PrCs that make you better at illusion...maybe Nightmare Spinner (same book)?

[A_S]

The Master Specialist PrC (Complete Mage) grants some rather nice, but not really mind-blowing benefits to an illusionist. Over 10 levels, you'd get:
Skill Focus (spellcraft)
Some bonus Illusion spells.
Greater Spell Focus
+2 to your "will (disbelief)" save DC's
Permanent, (ex) concealment
The benefits of Still Spell, Silent Spell, and Eschew Materials for free when casting Illusion spells

If you want to focus on illusions, there's much worse ways to spend 10 levels.

*edit* Swordsage'd and reading comprehension fail.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Paragnostic Apostle (CC) is generally useful for just about any spellcaster.

Divine Oracle (CD) (get its feat prerequisite via the Frog God's Fane in CS) is a decent choice for any spellcater as well.

Unseen Seer (CM) is a good choice for a sneaky/skilled caster, though its skill prerequisites can be difficult.

[Akal Saris]

Here's some ideas:

- Fatespinner (C. Arcane) - Good for a few levels to force opponents to reroll saving throws
- Red Wizard of Thay (DMG) - this is a decent PrC in general if you don't mind being evil, and it's core.
- Nightmare Spinner (C. Mage) - This is a great, 5-level PrC that imbues your illusions with fear effects, making opponents shaken (-2 to saves), as well as bonus illusion spells for each level.
- Shadow Adept (Players guide to faerun/pgtf) - this PrC focuses on making shadow conjuration & shadow evocation stronger
-Shadowcrafter (Underdark) - this PrC focuses on making shadow conjuration & shadow evocation stronger

PrCs limited to specialists: (so DM would have to tweak requirements)
- Master Specialist from Complete Mage - As already mentioned, this gives bonuses to your illusion DC's, spellcraft, and some bonus spells, mainly. It's also a good entry to Archmage since it gives Skill focus.

Some good PrC's for all wizards:
- Incantatrix (PgtF) - just too powerful in general due to the # of strong abilities
- Mage of the Arcane Order (C Arcane) - gives lots of flexibility
- Recaster (races of eberron) - similar to incantatrix in enabling metamagic feat abuse
- Halruuan Elder (shining south) - item creation & metamagic craziness
- Archmage (DMG) - always good for 1-2 levels if you can easily meet the prerequisites

[Mithril Leaf]

Here's some ideas:

- Fatespinner (C. Arcane) - Good for a few levels to force opponents to reroll saving throws
- Red Wizard of Thay (DMG) - this is a decent PrC in general if you don't mind being evil, and it's core.
- Nightmare Spinner (C. Mage) - This is a great, 5-level PrC that imbues your illusions with fear effects, making opponents shaken (-2 to saves), as well as bonus illusion spells for each level.
- Shadow Adept (Players guide to faerun/pgtf) - this PrC focuses on making shadow conjuration & shadow evocation stronger
-Shadowcrafter (Underdark) - this PrC focuses on making shadow conjuration & shadow evocation stronger

PrCs limited to specialists: (so DM would have to tweak requirements)
- Master Specialist from Complete Mage - As already mentioned, this gives bonuses to your illusion DC's, spellcraft, and some bonus spells, mainly. It's also a good entry to Archmage since it gives Skill focus.

Some good PrC's for all wizards:
- Incantatrix (PgtF) - just too powerful in general due to the # of strong abilities
- Mage of the Arcane Order (C Arcane) - gives lots of flexibility
- Recaster (races of eberron) - similar to incantatrix in enabling metamagic feat abuse
- Halruuan Elder (shining south) - item creation & metamagic craziness
- Archmage (DMG) - always good for 1-2 levels if you can easily meet the prerequisites

I'm not sure if you quite understand Red Wizard's power there. It's one of the most powerful wizard PrCs by far. On the same playing ground with Incantatrix at least, I personally think it's better.

I'd recommend some Fatespinner in general. You're really limiting yourself by denying any shadowcraft stuff.

[avr]

Dragonmarked has a PrC for gnomes which is all about scrolls. Metamagic and save DCs included IIRC, though only for the scrolls. Requires the use of Eberron content.

Faiths of Eberron (again, Eberron obviously) has the Escalation Mage which lets you pay HP and make a caster level check to get metamagic.

The DMG has the Loremaster which may be a little dull but which could help you with skills at minimal opportunity cost.

[PrinceOfMadness]

I'd recommend some Fatespinner in general. You're really limiting yourself by denying any shadowcraft stuff.

Well, here's the thing.

We've got 4 people in the party that have never played 3.5 before (I am one of those people. So is the DM). I have considerable exposure to 3.5 material however, so I'm moderately familiar with a good bit of it. I don't want to play something that's going to overshadow the entire party or leave a bad taste in my DM's mouth, because I want to continue to play 3.5.

I'm not against Shadowcraft material in general (although it strikes me as a tad silly - disbelieving an illusion can potentially make it more powerful? lolwut). My fear is that, given the group we have, it will break the game and ruin any chance of another game of 3.5 in future.

[Psyren]

Well, here's the thing.

We've got 4 people in the party that have never played 3.5 before (I am one of those people. So is the DM). I have considerable exposure to 3.5 material however, so I'm moderately familiar with a good bit of it. I don't want to play something that's going to overshadow the entire party or leave a bad taste in my DM's mouth, because I want to continue to play 3.5.

I'm not against Shadowcraft material in general (although it strikes me as a tad silly - disbelieving an illusion can potentially make it more powerful? lolwut). My fear is that, given the group we have, it will break the game and ruin any chance of another game of 3.5 in future.

Even without the craziness shadow spells can bring, Illusions in general can be tough with a new group. You run into all kinds of hairy questions - will the skeletons/golem chase you through the Silent Image brick wall you threw up? Can a Major Image burn anyone? Can you scare someone with Ghost Sound? How loud can your Ventriloquism be? Can Veil fool plants or oozes? - and so on.

I'm not saying don't be an illusionist, but open-ended magic like illusions and enchantments can require adjudication that a brand new DM/table may not be ready for, so be careful with them. And the more you focus on illusion, the more you may be tempted to include potential problem spells in your toolbox.