(3.5) 1-handed reach weapons

[stack]

I am looking for any 1-handed or light reach weapons that can be found in core, completes, or races books. Obviously the whip is one, but I would need an economical way to make it do lethal damage. Feats only for that, not classes. This is for a game using Rizban's E6 homebrew.

[Ravens_cry]

I am looking for any 1-handed or light reach weapons that can be found in core, completes, or races books. Obviously the whip is one, but I would need an economical way to make it do lethal damage. Feats only for that, not classes. This is for a game using Rizban's E6 homebrew.
Kusari-gama is in the Eastern weapons part of the DMG. It's basically a 1-handed spiked chain and it sounds more or less exactly what you want.

[ArcturusV]

Also the Whip-Dagger, from, Arms and Equipment Guide, I believe. It's basically "Whip without the silly limitations on Damage and Armored Enemies".

[juicycaboose]

There is the Kusari-Gama from the DMG and I believe there is a spiked whip in Arms & Equipment Guide that deals lethal damage.

[stack]

Kusari-gama is in the Eastern weapons part of the DMG. It's basically a 1-handed spiked chain and it sounds more or less exactly what you want.

Okay, I could have swore that it used to be on the SRD, but then I didn't see it on the normal chart.

[Ravens_cry]

Okay, I could have swore that it used to be on the SRD, but then I didn't see it on the normal chart.
Yeah, it's not a standard weapon. As I said, it's in the DMG, along with the laser pistol.

[stack]

Got a page reference? I'm having trouble finding it.

[ArcturusV]

The thing to watch out for with the Kusari-Gama is that it was also printed in OA as a Large Exotic Double Weapon. Your DM might choose to use that version instead. In which case it takes up both your hands. Only has 10 foot reach (Unless you're using it as a double weapon, then just normal melee range) and you get 1d6 Slash or 1d4 Bludgeon damage.

It is basically strictly worse than the other version of the Kusari-Gama. But if your DM knows the OA version exists? You have about a 90% chance that they'll force you to use the OA version.

[Thurbane]

OA is 3.0 (but it has an update booklet, and also more conversion in Dragon), so the 3.5 DMG should probably be treated as the primary source.

It's DMG page 145.

[Ashtagon]

OA is 3.0 (but it has an update booklet, and also more conversion in Dragon), so the 3.5 DMG should probably be treated as the primary source.

It's DMG page 145.

So what you're saying is that the OA version is both an older source and a more recent source, yet should be disregarded on both counts?

[stack]

OA is 3.0 (but it has an update booklet, and also more conversion in Dragon), so the 3.5 DMG should probably be treated as the primary source.

It's DMG page 145.

Thanks. OA shouldn't matter since it isn't a source in use for the game. The only trick would be convincing myself that it isn't too odd for the character to use.

[ArcturusV]

Always a benefit.

But that's just a warning I was giving because no matter what you might want to say about RAW, Sources, Primary, etc. Any DM I know of would look at the two entries (If aware of it), and go:

"... you know... this OA one makes a WHOLE hell of a lot more sense. You don't use a Kusari-Gama one handed. It IS a double weapon. I'm using the OA version."

Course, if your group doesn't have access to the book, no great fear of that happening.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Stack- if your GM is a student of history, s/he may also approve a Longspear ( or called a Pike) to be used one-handed. The SRD made this weapon two-handed only, which contradicts historical use of these weapons.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe5fH4EYCsohAxdARdAwR6tFgH0mYBp gxVD1G1v8fH2it-ouzs4A

[stack]

Stack- if your GM is a student of history, s/he may also approve a Longspear ( or called a Pike) to be used one-handed. The SRD made this weapon two-handed only, which contradicts historical use of these weapons.


Yeah, there will be a background to cover that, just isn't done yet. Its a big homebrew project, I encourage everyone to check it out (link in sig). Each character has a class, archetype, and background, all of which lend a great deal of flexibility. Its for E6, so you have to make every level awesome.

[Darrin]

So what you're saying is that the OA version is both an older source and a more recent source, yet should be disregarded on both counts?


The original OA version was 3.0. This was superceded by the 3.5 DMG. Although there is an OA web errata available on the WotC website, it doesn't actually update it to 3.5. That update was printed in Dragon Magazine #318... unfortunately, this is not available online, most DMs ban Dragon Magazine material outright, and actually getting ahold of a copy is probably more trouble than it's worth.

Technically, Dragon Magazine #318 had a later printing date and should supercede the 3.5 DMG, but the Dragon Magazine article doesn't mention the kusari-gama or make any changes to it. Thus, there's a discrepancy between a 3.5 sourcebook and the 3.5 DMG. In this case, when two sources contradict each other, the three "Core" books (PHB, DMG, MM) take precedence.

So, as you said, yes, the OA version is both the older and newer source, and should be disregarded on both counts.

Note: The only other one-handed reach weapon I can think of is the Spinning Sword in Secrets of Sarlona. It's very similar to the kusari-gama in the DMG, except it has a slightly better crit range (19-20/x2) and is not a light weapon (if you need such a thing for Power Attack/TWF shenanigans).

[Thurbane]

Hmm, not being much of an Eberron buff, I didn't think of the spinning sword. Nice weapon to remember for some niche builds. :smallwink:

[GilesTheCleric]

If you're allowed out of core/complete/races, but not AaEG, then the scourge is probably printed in a 3.5 Faerun book. It's pretty much the same as a spiked whip.

Even if you're stuck with a whip, couldn't you stick an elemental damage enchant on it to do some lethal, or add a feat like Dirty Fighting? I'm not sure if the feat would work, since I'm not versed in the non-lethal damage rules. Making it a wounding weapon would do con damage, which ends up being pretty lethal.

If your DM will let it slide this way, there might be a deity mentioned in one of the core/complete/races books who grants the scourge as a favoured weapon, meaning that it should be legal.

Wield Oversized Weapon from CW will let you move a 2-hander to a 1-hander.

EDIT: looks like wield oversized weapon is an epic feat. Why can't fighters ever have nice things? You'll have to ask your DM if you can use Monkey Grip in the same way, just with that -2. The text doesn't explicitly support this, though.

[ArcturusV]

The issue with the enchanting is that Whips also specifically say they do not do damage to a target wearing armor.

Which MIGHT just mean HP damage from the whip's damage dice.

If your DM is going RAW though or feeling like being a bastard to you, it might mean that your +5 Wounding Flaming Holy Fiery Burst whip is rendered completely useless by a simple 10 gp leather vest, or by anyone with +3 natural armor or better. Which means almost every enemy you'll ever face for the most part between a Gobbo with a ratty leather vest, or that Dragon at the heart of the volcano.

And yeah, that sucks when your DM finally remembers that +1 armor, or +3 natural armor completely negates your weapon. :smallsigh:

[Ravens_cry]

Stack- if your GM is a student of history, s/he may also approve a Longspear ( or called a Pike) to be used one-handed. The SRD made this weapon two-handed only, which contradicts historical use of these weapons.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe5fH4EYCsohAxdARdAwR6tFgH0mYBp gxVD1G1v8fH2it-ouzs4A

That's not a pike. That's barely taller than they are tall.
<bad Australian accent>
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29) . . . is a pike.
</bad Australian accent>

[Ashtagon]

That's not a pike. That's barely taller than they are tall.
<bad Australian accent>
This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29) . . . is a pike.
</bad Australian accent>

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Makedonische_phalanx.png

Our pikes are longer.

I did the research once, a long time ago. Turns out that the shields of those shield walls are actually hanging off a shoulder by a strap, and the spears are actually being wielded two-handed.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192605

[Ravens_cry]

Our pikes are longer.

I did the research once, a long time ago. Turns out that the shields of those shield walls are actually hanging off a shoulder by a strap, and the spears are actually being wielded two-handed.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192605
Yep, I read that too. In fact, that picture is in the article I linked to.