Character idea: how to pull it off?

[Talya]

So, the character must be neutral on the good/evil axis.

The character needs two improved familiars (or one improved familiar, one method of acquiring a second similar relationship with another creature, be it through leadership or similar...though the monsters i'm looking at aren't available as cohorts.)

One of the two should be a Coure Eladrin (CG angelic-feylike creature from BoED).
The other should be an Imp or Quasit.

The DM constantly has the two appearing over either shoulder and offering conflicting moral advice.

[Harrow]

A Wizard of Sorcerer that takes the Obtain Familiar feat. Nothing ever says that you can't take it even if you already have a familiar. The only problem then is that the Coure Eladrin is only on the list for Celestial Familiar and not Improved Familiar. Improved let's you be one step away on both alignment axis, but for Celestial you have to match the alignment. Sadly, there is no RAW way that I can think of to do this.

Now, Coure Eladrin do have level adjustment, so you could get an imp or quasit from Improved Familiar then a Coure Eladrin as a Cohort from Leadership, in which case you could pull this off at level 9. But that's not exactly what you were looking for.

[Snowbluff]

I think there was an Extra Familiar feat in Dragon somewhere...

[Randomguy]

Class: Wizard or sorcerer.
Alignment: True Neutral.
Feats: Obtain familiar, Planar Familiar.

Obtained familiar gets you a second familiar (the feat doesn't specify that you need to not have a familiar in order to take it). Planar familiar lets you take special familiars as long as they're one step away on each axis, so for True Neutral that's any alignment.

This can get you an Imp/Quasit and a Lantern Archon, but not a Coure Eladrin.


If you really want a Coure Eladrin, you'll need some finagling: You'd need to start off being Chaotic Good, take the Celestial familiar feat (which requires you be the same alignment when you summon the familiar) then change alignments to True Neutral (since it doesn't specify you lose the familiar if you change alignment), and then summon the Imp/Quasit via either Planar Familiar or Improved Familiar.

[Emperor Tippy]

A Wizard of Sorcerer that takes the Obtain Familiar feat. Nothing ever says that you can't take it even if you already have a familiar. The only problem then is that the Coure Eladrin is only on the list for Celestial Familiar and not Improved Familiar. Improved let's you be one step away on both alignment axis, but for Celestial you have to match the alignment. Sadly, there is no RAW way that I can think of to do this.

Now, Coure Eladrin do have level adjustment, so you could get an imp or quasit from Improved Familiar then a Coure Eladrin as a Cohort from Leadership, in which case you could pull this off at level 9. But that's not exactly what you were looking for.

Extra Familiar (Dragon #280) will get you a second familiar and Celestial Familiar doesn't say that you can't change alignments after getting a familiar, just that you have to have the same alignment when you choose a familiar.

Planar Familiar (Planar Handbook) can get you a Quasit but the closest to chaotic good you can be is chaotic neutral.

----
Now what you need to do to get what you want is convoluted. First get a Familiar (Wizard, Sorcerer, Obtain Familiar). Then you need the feat Extra Familiar. Then you need to be Chaotic Good and at least 7th level so that you can take Celestial Familiar. Then you need to drop down to Chaotic Neutral without committing a single evil act (because that will cause you to loose Celestial Familiar). Then you need to take Planar Familiar.

So for four feats any class can do it.

[graymachine]

A Wizard of Sorcerer that takes the Obtain Familiar feat. Nothing ever says that you can't take it even if you already have a familiar. The only problem then is that the Coure Eladrin is only on the list for Celestial Familiar and not Improved Familiar. Improved let's you be one step away on both alignment axis, but for Celestial you have to match the alignment. Sadly, there is no RAW way that I can think of to do this.

Now, Coure Eladrin do have level adjustment, so you could get an imp or quasit from Improved Familiar then a Coure Eladrin as a Cohort from Leadership, in which case you could pull this off at level 9. But that's not exactly what you were looking for.

Sure, they could have the Celestial Familiar as their alignment currently stands; just needs to get a 70+ Bluff check to display a false alignment.:smallamused:

[Snowbluff]

Class: Wizard or sorcerer.
Alignment: True Neutral.
Feats: Obtain familiar, Planar Familiar.
Obtain Familiar works as a Wizard's familiar, and having 2 classes with that particular feature does not grant an additional familiar. So this would not work.

[Getsugaru]

Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East, pg. 26) gives you an Imp or a Quasit as a familiar. And if I remember correctly, it is one of the only ways to get a second familiar by RAW.

I understand what your theme is, but I must point out that a coure might not make a good angel, due to its near constant pranks. in the BoED, it quite clearly states that a coure exists to pull pranks.

[Telonius]

Alternate idea ... take the Celestial familiar, then a level in Malconvoker. Cast Planar Binding to get your imp/quasit/whatever. Service being requested: "Try to tempt me while Mr. Goody Two-Shoes is right there. Pull this off, and you'll be a legend back in the Lower Planes. If you don't - well, you'll have wasted however many years it takes tempting me and not some other poor guy." So basically, a bet with your immortal soul as the stakes. Technically it's not an open-ended task, and the evil-thingy can accomplish it by its own actions. So the spell will hold as long as it agrees to the terms.

[Harrow]

Obtain Familiar works as a Wizard's familiar, and having 2 classes with that particular feature does not grant an additional familiar. So this would not work.

It says nowhere that it works like a wizard's familiar. It's an ability based off of the wizard's familiar, certainly, but there is nothing that says "you get the wizard's class feature : familiar". The same holds true for Sorcerer, so you can multiclass the two and get two familiars as well.

[Snowbluff]

It says nowhere that it works like a wizard's familiar. It's an ability based off of the wizard's familiar, certainly, but there is nothing that says "you get the wizard's class feature : familiar". The same holds true for Sorcerer, so you can multiclass the two and get two familiars as well.

A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

You can obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard (see the sorcerer class description and the accompanying sidebar, page 52 of the Player's Handbook).

It makes it pretty clear that it works the same as the class feature, making it work as a copy of the class feature.

[Talya]

Improved Familiar specifies:


The list in Table: Improved Familiar by Alignment presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar.

That really opens the door for anything suitable as a familiar. The "Celestial Familiar" feat is redundant, isn't it? Coures and Lantern Archons and such (And even pixies and petals and the like) would aready be suitable familiars for Improved Familiar, yes?

Then the extra familiar feat out of Dragon 280?

[Gwendol]

Alternate idea ... take the Celestial familiar, then a level in Malconvoker. Cast Planar Binding to get your imp/quasit/whatever. Service being requested: "Try to tempt me while Mr. Goody Two-Shoes is right there. Pull this off, and you'll be a legend back in the Lower Planes. If you don't - well, you'll have wasted however many years it takes tempting me and not some other poor guy." So basically, a bet with your immortal soul as the stakes. Technically it's not an open-ended task, and the evil-thingy can accomplish it by its own actions. So the spell will hold as long as it agrees to the terms.

+1 for this. An elegant solution.

[Harrow]

It makes it pretty clear that it works the same as the class feature, making it work as a copy of the class feature.

I see where our disagreement it. I see it as a copy of the class feature. But it isn't the class feature. It is only a copy. It mimics the effects, but comes from a different source. And... you're interpretation feels really implied to me. Like, reading the rules on this, it feels like they meant what you said without ever stating it.

[thethird]

That really opens the door for anything suitable as a familiar. The "Celestial Familiar" feat is redundant, isn't it? Coures and Lantern Archons and such (And even pixies and petals and the like) would aready be suitable familiars for Improved Familiar, yes?

Personally I mix all familiars available through different feats into improved familiar, so my personal ruling would be yes. It is a DM call.


Then the extra familiar feat out of Dragon 280?

This should work.