'Living' Undead - How to?

[Regitnui]

One of my party's enemies will be (haven't gotten to that adventure yet) a mummy who works for the Blood of Vol, a religion that worships 'the divine power inherent in all of us' (read 'blood'). Now this NPC is/was vain, and didn't want to lose her good looks. As this also helps with disguising herself, it's allowed by her superiors. From my perspective I enjoy the idea of players thinking she's alive until they catch mummy rot. So I have two questions for the playground:

1. Is there some item or other way to keep this mummy from looking alive? I suspect it'll involve gentle repose in some way, but anyone have specifics?

2. Is there any reason for the mummy to not be wearing normal clothing instead of strategically-placed bandages?

[ahenobarbi]

Continuous item of Gentle Repose should be cheap (2(spell level) * 3 (caster level) * 2000 (base mutiplier) * 0.5 (day/level duration) = 6000gp).

Don't know about bandages, I guess they are there to make mummy look like an stereotypical mummy, there shouldn't be a problem. And if bandages are necessary... {Scrubbed}

[hamishspence]

One of my party's enemies will be (haven't gotten to that adventure yet) a mummy who works for the Blood of Vol, a religion that worships 'the divine power inherent in all of us' (read 'blood'). Now this NPC is/was vain, and didn't want to lose her good looks. As this also helps with disguising herself, it's allowed by her superiors. From my perspective I enjoy the idea of players thinking she's alive until they catch mummy rot.

Makes me think of one of the Dragon Magazine cover pics:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20050923a

which definitely looked alive but with a few bandages.

[Silva Stormrage]

Gentle repose should prevent her from rotting, and I don't even think bandages are required and if they are they could still just wear regular clothes over the bandages.

Frankly though you could just say that the mummy researched a spell that returned her to her original form's appearance. Maybe some variant of alter self or something like that. You ARE the dm :smalltongue:

[MrNobody]

Well, mummy is not only the "egyptian" one. There are corpse naturally mummified by extremely hot or cold environement and, also, there's the self mummification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu).

You could use expecially this variant for your NPC: it doesn't require bandages and allow to wear any clothing he wants.

[Cirrylius]

For the fluff, maybe have her been immersed in some exotic, flexible resin until her tissues were saturated. She looks mostly normal with a slight wax-doll vibe. When she gets hurt, she has to reapply the resin in a reservoir bag for a few days before casting Cause X Wounds on herself, or the flesh is restored dead and shrivelled.

[ahenobarbi]

For the fluff, maybe have her been immersed in some exotic, flexible resin until her tissues were saturated. She looks mostly normal with a slight wax-doll vibe. When she gets hurt, she has to reapply the resin in a reservoir bag for a few days before casting Cause X Wounds on herself, or the flesh is restored dead and shrivelled.

Don't you think it's a bit too complicated for a world where you can raise dead in 1 minute, do work that would take hundreds of men a week in an hour and travel distances that (even now) take hours to cover in an eye blink?

[Clistenes]

Why not using a Ring or Polymorphy, or a Hat of Disguise, or Fleshshifter Armor? Or just using Polymorph Any Object? (per RAW, she would keep her supernatural powers while under another shape).

[Cirrylius]

Don't you think it's a bit too complicated for a world where you can raise dead in 1 minute, do work that would take hundreds of men a week in an hour and travel distances that (even now) take hours to cover in an eye blink?

*shrugs*
Well? she traipsed into undeath specifically to preserve her body. Now she has a permanent, low-maintenance, non-dispell-able, non-illusory means of doing so. It's not like there aren't other, less reliable, more expensive ways to stay good looking on top of that. Anybody willing to kill themselves for vanity would certainly be willing to go the extra mile, and since my suggestion is just a re-fluff of her new species anyway, it doesn't cost her anything.

[ArcturusV]

Well they did print the "Shirt of Gentle Repose" magical item for just this purpose. Though it's more expensive than the maths above suggests. 12,000 GP. Faint Necromancy Aura, requires 3rd caster level, Wondrous Item, and the Gentle Repose spell, 1 lb weight. Least as it was printed.

[Cirrylius]

Though it's more expensive than the maths above suggests. 12,000 GP.
Any idea why? I've always considered Gentle Repose to be underpowered for a spell of its level anyway; what do you think the justification would be for trumping up the price of a wondrous item used almost exclusively by NPC's?

[ArcturusV]

Eh. I can't say. I know the book that it was in, also had a lot of stuff that was possibly considered "Powerful" (Least the writers thought so) that an undead couldn't enter into unless they actually had a shirt of gentle repose. So it might be less that the effect itself was powerful but they considered what the effect might allow was powerful.

Course I wouldn't regulate it to NPC only as there's a ton of Undead PC templates/races/options out there.

But yeah, I'd probably be comfortable lowering the price on it myself. Just saying that when they did make the item, that was how they stated it out.

[graymachine]

There's a different spell that achieves the same ends as Gentle Repose, and I think it is lower level; someone mentioned it in another undead thread the other day and I think it was called Invigorate Undead or something like that.

How is she wanting to preserve her looks, exactly? I don't think that mummies suffer decay as much as, say, a zombie does since so much more care was taken in preparing the body. I, as the DM, would simply take a little extra off the top of her WBL to signify that her body had even further expertise applied in its preparation and call it a day. That way, you don't have to generate magic items you don't necessarily want and it seems more fitting that she has her 'natural' beauty. I would just made small suggestions to her undead nature in her description; if she is concerned about the smell, Prestidigitation takes care of that and cantrips are cheap.

On a semi-related note: Am I crazy or am do I recall that mummies were/are positive energy undead? I seem to remember reading that and always thought how strange it was.

[LOTRfan]

I believe they were described as positive-energy undead in earlier editions. There are no positive-energy in 3.5e, though; that role is filled by the Deathless type.

[Cirrylius]

On a semi-related note: Am I crazy or am do I recall that mummies were/are positive energy undead?
Yup. Mummy Rot was originally fluffed as a kind of vitalic radiation sickness, IIRC.

[Acanous]

Crazy. Positive energy undead. Were 2E Mummies inherently good?

[ArcturusV]

Kinda? As I recall they were fluffed as basically being mindjacked or tortured into doing evil acts against the will of their original souls. It involved using the ashes of a dead king, usually one who was Good aligned to create it. The fact that mummies were typically guardians instead of going out and slaughtering towns meant that they weren't really "Evil" in actions. If you ran into a mummy it was because it was protecting something you were after.

[Cirrylius]

Crazy. Positive energy undead. Were 2E Mummies inherently good?
I belieeeeve they were still evil. I think the whole positive energy thing was to justify how undead could be created in service to a solar god, i.e. Ra.

[MukkTB]

It should be possible to stay fresh with continuous gentle repose. Obvious damage should be easy enough to take care of between various low level healing spells. Now there's an issue of pallor, which is not an issue of decay, its the body losing healthy looking coloring because it doesn't have living blood flowing through it anymore. There are two ways to deal with this, makeup, or a low level illusion spell. I'd go for the makeup to fix this, because a woman using makeup to look better isn't going to trip any suspicions.

Now we have to deal with body heat. Undead are likely to be room temperature unless otherwise stated. If she expects to touch people, or plans to get more intimate with them, she needs to cover this. It wouldn't do to accidentally collide with an adventurer and have them find she's as cold as a corpse. Carrying some object that radiates heat at about body temperature is probably a simple solution.

Then some method of obscuring detect undead is needed. I'm not sure how to do this but I know a short search will find the solution.

[Regitnui]

Makes me think of one of the Dragon Magazine cover pics:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20050923a

which definitely looked alive but with a few bandages.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that was part of the inspiration. :smallbiggrin:


Gentle repose should prevent her from rotting, and I don't even think bandages are required and if they are they could still just wear regular clothes over the bandages.

Frankly though you could just say that the mummy researched a spell that returned her to her original form's appearance. Maybe some variant of alter self or something like that. You ARE the dm :smalltongue:

Yes, but I'd like to be able to point at the sourcebooks and go, "Look in there," if one of my more experienced players tries to call me out.


Well, mummy is not only the "egyptian" one. There are corpse naturally mummified by extremely hot or cold environement and, also, there's the self mummification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu).

You could use especially this variant for your NPC: it doesn't require bandages and allow to wear any clothing he wants.

That's actually kind of weird... I doubt she'd let herself go through that level of 'disfigurement', but it's a nice idea. Thanks MrNobody


Eh. I can't say. I know the book that it was in, also had a lot of stuff that was possibly considered "Powerful" (Least the writers thought so) that an undead couldn't enter into unless they actually had a shirt of gentle repose. So it might be less that the effect itself was powerful but they considered what the effect might allow was powerful.

Course I wouldn't regulate it to NPC only as there's a ton of Undead PC templates/races/options out there.

But yeah, I'd probably be comfortable lowering the price on it myself. Just saying that when they did make the item, that was how they stated it out.

The shirt of gentle repose was in BoEF. I remember that due to being mildly disturbed at the need for such an object within the book's context.:smalleek: But it's an option. Aren't there amulets that do the same thing?


There's a different spell that achieves the same ends as Gentle Repose, and I think it is lower level; someone mentioned it in another undead thread the other day and I think it was called Invigorate Undead or something like that.

How is she wanting to preserve her looks, exactly? I don't think that mummies suffer decay as much as, say, a zombie does since so much more care was taken in preparing the body. I, as the DM, would simply take a little extra off the top of her WBL to signify that her body had even further expertise applied in its preparation and call it a day. That way, you don't have to generate magic items you don't necessarily want and it seems more fitting that she has her 'natural' beauty. I would just made small suggestions to her undead nature in her description; if she is concerned about the smell, Prestidigitation takes care of that and cantrips are cheap.

On a semi-related note: Am I crazy or am do I recall that mummies were/are positive energy undead? I seem to remember reading that and always thought how strange it was.

If she's not rotting, she's not smelling either. Mummies don't really stink, so far as I know, since they're preserved corpses and therefore the bacteria and other processes that cause the smell aren't working.


It should be possible to stay fresh with continuous gentle repose. Obvious damage should be easy enough to take care of between various low level healing spells. Now there's an issue of pallor, which is not an issue of decay, its the body losing healthy looking coloring because it doesn't have living blood flowing through it anymore. There are two ways to deal with this, makeup, or a low level illusion spell. I'd go for the makeup to fix this, because a woman using makeup to look better isn't going to trip any suspicions.

Now we have to deal with body heat. Undead are likely to be room temperature unless otherwise stated. If she expects to touch people, or plans to get more intimate with them, she needs to cover this. It wouldn't do to accidentally collide with an adventurer and have them find she's as cold as a corpse. Carrying some object that radiates heat at about body temperature is probably a simple solution.

Then some method of obscuring detect undead is needed. I'm not sure how to do this but I know a short search will find the solution.

This is a solid answer. Can gentle repose be made permanent with the permanency spell?

Body heat is likely solved by some sort of fire-elemental bound into clothing, armor or jewellery. It would radiate heat, and if anyone asks she can say it's a fashion statement.

Detect undead can be defeated by forcing them to mistake the woods for the trees. She lives in Karrnath, a country where the army is undead, and also works for the Blood of Vol, a religion who has a few unintelligent undead around every temple for manual labour/all purpose enforcement.

[Coidzor]

I hate to be that guy and all, but have you considered Necropolitan? It seems like it would be more up her alley, so to speak.


If she's not rotting, she's not smelling either. Mummies don't really stink, so far as I know, since they're preserved corpses and therefore the bacteria and other processes that cause the smell aren't working.

Actually I believe that they're perfumed and are soaked in fragrant oils so that it permeates the skin. Or at least the bandages are? :smallconfused:

Smells like Old Spice, was how I thought of them, till the spice fades completely with time/wear, depending upon how much wear they get and whether they, y'know, re-apply as part of their maintenance and, for lack of a better term, grooming.


This is a solid answer. Can gentle repose be made permanent with the permanency spell?

If it is by RAW, it's in some source other than core, because the SRD leaves it out of the official list. But, really, as the DM, you're basically allowed adjudication of whether other spells not listed can be permanency'd...

[The Ravensong]

She can take baths in Unguent of Timelessness
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Unguent_of_Timelessness
150g to have every year pass as a day for as long as no one dispels it or something similar
She'll stay smokin' hot on the cheap for millenia. 365.25 years before she ages even a year? Real people have killed for less.

[Regitnui]

I hate to be that guy and all, but have you considered Necropolitan? It seems like it would be more up her alley, so to speak.

That's a Forgotten Realms template. No wonder I hadn't heard if it. It's another option, at least, but I'm considering having her start of as your 'garden-variety' mummy and gain cleric levels to advance.


Actually I believe that they're perfumed and are soaked in fragrant oils so that it permeates the skin. Or at least the bandages are? :smallconfused:

Smells like Old Spice, was how I thought of them, till the spice fades completely with time/wear, depending upon how much wear they get and whether they, y'know, re-apply as part of their maintenance and, for lack of a better term, grooming.

Those mummies made in the Egyptian funerary rituals were perfumed, but natural mummies wouldn't stink either.


If it is by RAW, it's in some source other than core, because the SRD leaves it out of the official list. But, really, as the DM, you're basically allowed adjudication of whether other spells not listed can be permanency'd...

I guess so... Hm.:smallamused:


She can take baths in Unguent of Timelessness
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Unguent_of_Timelessness
150g to have every year pass as a day for as long as no one dispels it or something similar
She'll stay smokin' hot on the cheap for millenia. 365.25 years before she ages even a year? Real people have killed for less.

That could be an interesting scene; bursting in on your sworn enemy just as she's 'bathing'. That'll also fit in well with her 'Cleopatra'-vibe I want with this character. I mean the arrogance and vanity, not Egyptian-theme.


***

So we've got a woman, who upon transitioning to undeath had a permanent gentle repose cast on her, makeup to keep her from looking pale, a fire-elemental-bound amulet to keep her body warm, an extreme hatred of clerics, paladins and necromancers (those people who detect/turn/destroy/command undead) who has regular baths in Unguent of Timelessness and a shirt of gentle repose in case of the former two magics being dispelled.

:smallconfused: Actually, that's a good question. How do magic items interact with dispels and AMF? Would the effect only be stopped as long as they're dispelled/in the AMF or would the magic be permanently gone?

[ArcturusV]

Dispel would stop it from working. AMF just keeps it from working as long as it's within the AMF. The moment you step outside/it ends, it's still there.

Your big worry would be something like Mordekanien's Disjunction, which simultaneously dispels everything in the area.

But that's just a spell that common wisdom says you should avoid.

But if they dispelled the shirt and the permanent Repose, that wouldn't effect the Unguent unless they actually got to and directly dispelled the unguent itself.

[TuggyNE]

:smallconfused: Actually, that's a good question. How do magic items interact with dispels and AMF? Would the effect only be stopped as long as they're dispelled/in the AMF or would the magic be permanently gone?

Dispels on magic items (aside from disjunction) are only temporary. Specifically, 1d4 rounds temporary.

[Regitnui]

Dispel would stop it from working. AMF just keeps it from working as long as it's within the AMF. The moment you step outside/it ends, it's still there.

Your big worry would be something like Mordekanien's Disjunction, which simultaneously dispels everything in the area.

But that's just a spell that common wisdom says you should avoid.

But if they dispelled the shirt and the permanent Repose, that wouldn't effect the Unguent unless they actually got to and directly dispelled the unguent itself.


Dispels on magic items (aside from disjunction) are only temporary. Specifically, 1d4 rounds temporary.

So mage's/Mordekainen's disjunction is the only real threat to her continued beauty, due to having layer-upon-layer of precautions? Sounds like a built-in restraining bolt (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RestrainingBolt) to me.

[ahenobarbi]

There is a problem with Unguent of Timelessness - a corpse that aged a year doesn't look like a human who aged a year (but mummification will probably help there).

Also instead of binding Fire Elemental to warm you up you can use continuous item of prestidigitation (1000gp) that will do the same.

[Regitnui]

There is a problem with Unguent of Timelessness - a corpse that aged a year doesn't look like a human who aged a year (but mummification will probably help there).

Also instead of binding Fire Elemental to warm you up you can use continuous item of prestidigitation (1000gp) that will do the same.

The gentle repose keeps her skin looking whole, and the Unguent does the same job in case the spell is dispelled.

[hamishspence]

That's a Forgotten Realms template. No wonder I hadn't heard if it.

Actually Necropolitan is a Libris Mortis template- which is non-setting specific.

[graymachine]

The Walker In The Waste (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869746/Walker_in_the_Waste_Handbook) PrC out of Sandstorm might be more in line with what you are looking for. Not only is the PrC good for advancing a divine caster class but the capstone turns the character into a Dry Lich (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/drylich.shtml) without having to pay the LA. It may not have the appearance you are looking for, but I would just factor in the cost of the magic items to affect appearance you've decided on already and simply reskin it to suit your needs. This would certainly tighten up the character from a mechanical standpoint, (at the very least you can avoid the glass-dagger-undead issue since Dry Liches get CHA to their HP) overcoming whatever LA mummies are subjected to according to the SRD mummies don't have an LA, which doesn't seem right.

Either way, she should probably put at least a few points into Perform for when she has to mimic breathing, blinking, etc.

[graymachine]

Actually Necropolitan is a Libris Mortis template- which is non-setting specific.

Yeah, it seems Libris Mortis would have a section or blurb dealing with this, or at least some magic items.

[Regitnui]

Yeah, it seems Libris Mortis would have a section or blurb dealing with this, or at least some magic items.

Might be worth a look, in that case. I'll see if I can find it.