[PF]How would you handle this?

[mistformsquirrl]

So, I have a campaign I'm setting up, and a player came up with a relatively interesting concept: Using Vestigal Limbs they want to dual wield two-handed swords.

In a more standard game I might not allow this, but the fluff for my world explicitly A) Allows for mutants B) means the party is caster-heavy by necessity, so there's going to be a relatively high OP level just by virtue of the main classes being used. So it's pretty clearly not going to overshadow other characters - so I'm perfectly OK with the idea.

Greater context for the world here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15275210&postcount=1)

The problem is: How do we handle this?

My original plan was since each weapon is being used in two hands, I'd allow for strength-and-a-half on the primary hands and 3/4ths strength* in the offhands.

On the other hand a player made a good point that although dual wielding is generally underpowered to begin with, there is a reason why they tend to be stingy with those types of multiplier bonuses. Being as I haven't DMed Pathfinder before, and I'm really rusty on DMing in-general, I'm figuring you kind folks might be able to help me figure out what a fair method for this is?

I'm pretty generous with letting players play the character they want, so again I have no problem with the concept; I just want to make sure before we start the mechanics are worked out in a way that won't be underpowered, but also won't be over the top.

*Ie: Strength and a half divided by 2.

[graymachine]

Well, has the player provided you with a build plan, or better yet a 20 level breakdown? It would be helpful for spotting any potential problems.

How much does the party lend itself to optimizing? As you said, high tier classes will dominant the group due to the setting, but that doesn't necessitate that the characters will be effective; Wizard or Druidzilla/Clericzilla can certainly be ineffective if built badly. More perspective on this will help gauge what effect this will have.

Mechanically, it roughly looks like what I would allow for this, setting aside the question of power level. I suspect, without digging into the math, that it will still be mid-to-low powered in a Tier 1 dominated game, unless it is combined with some cheese.

[mistformsquirrl]

Well it's looking like we actually have a lot of Sorcerers and Tome of Battle characters* - so Tier 2-3 seems to be more where we're sitting. Does that help?

*For the purpose of the game they're mages who work physical magics.

[grarrrg]

The rules already cover this fairly well.

You'd have to follow Two-Weapon fighting rules, we'll assume he takes the Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) feat of course (replaces Two-Weapon for creatures with 3+ arms). 2-handed weapons are never light, so he'd take a -4 penalty to all attacks.

The "main hand" sword gets full STR bonus damage, which being a 2-hander would be 1.5xSTR.
Off-Hand weapons always only allow .5xSTR bonus, unless you have Double Slice (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/double-slice-combat---final) which makes it Full STR bonus (this is one of the gray areas, since it _IS_ a 2-handed weapon, feel free to add .5xSTR to both numbers if you feel like it).

And don't worry about Vestigial Arms, they more or less function as intended in this case "The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms"
Since we are Two-Weapon fighting, we are well within "normal" attacks per round.

[mistformsquirrl]

So basically like I was planning to handle it then < . .> That works.

[graymachine]

grarrrg has got the long and short of it there. I don't see this character outshining the others, especially the ToB characters, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I it becomes an issue either way, simply control his equipment with well placed sunders or item drops.


Well it's looking like we actually have a lot of Sorcerers and Tome of Battle characters* - so Tier 2-3 seems to be more where we're sitting. Does that help?

*For the purpose of the game they're mages who work physical magics.

What do you mean? ToB characters already use magic for their abilities. :smallamused: