How can I sumo up the monk?

[gurgleflep]

Odd question isn't it? I'm wanting to play as a sumo in the next campaign I'm playing in... I requested a homebrew class and was told it's too small of an idea to make an entire class out of and that I should just use a monk. Here's something I was given:


Since you're looking for homebrew options, this was my beginning take of my own Sumo character, using the archetype format applied to the Monk class:

Sumo Monk

Obese (replaces Fast Movement: see 'Mountain Uproot' below) - -3 Dex checks, weight doubles for your species, carrying capacity is treated as one STR category higher.
Powerful Build for these Combat Maneuvers (instead of flurry of blows):
Grapple
Bull Rush
Sunder
Drag
Move
Damage
Pin
Overrun
Reposition
Trip
Ground Pound (instead of slow fall) - can choose to share half-damage with what's below him (takes half-damage from falling, but also deals half-damage to objects/ground he lands on).
Anchored Body (instead of Empty Body) - acts as a dimensional anchor to grappled foes.
Shrug Off (replaces evasion & Improved Evasion) - DR 2/magic, DR 5/magic
Mountain Uproot (Replaces Abundant Step) - The -3 Dex penalty from 'Obese' disappears. Speed increases by +10 ft.
Awesome Blow (as per the monster feat?)

My reason behind asking for this is quite simple: Tekken. I've played quite a bit of it recently and wanted to play as somebody similar to Ganryu in fighting style - something grapple oriented that doesn't use weapons or armor but is still a formidable foe.

Anyways, I would like to have more suggestions as to what I could do. That up there was quite a bit of information, but very helpful to say the least. How could I modify/expand upon this? All books and sources are available for use - homebrew and third party included - and I was even told to use some stuff from Setting Sun.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask! Thank you all ahead of time, you've all been very helpful for me in the past! :smallbiggrin:

TL;DR: I want to turn the monk into a sumo, any ideas?

[Psyren]

Have you looked at the Pathfinder Monk? Specifically, the Tetori archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori), which is focused on grappling.

[gurgleflep]

Have you looked at the Pathfinder Monk? Specifically, the Tetori archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori), which is focused on grappling.

No I haven't - other than the monsters I haven't really ever looked through Pathfinder to be honest. How well does it transfer over to 3.5 though? (I'm reading through the Tetori now)

[Psyren]

In 3.5 terms, Tetori does the following:

- Lets monks use their monk level in place of BAB for grapple checks (effectively, they have full BAB for grappling purposes.)
- Retain Dex bonus to AC while in a grapple.
- They gain use of the Grab special ability when they connect with an unarmed attack.*
- They gain use of the Constrict special ability.*
- They can AoO creatures who attempt to grapple them, even ones that possess Improved Grapple or a similar ability. At later levels, they can even do this while flat-footed.
- Add their monk level to a grapple check to escape a grapple (i.e. their monk level is counted twice.)
- Roll an additional save as an immediate action vs. paralyze, entangle, stagger or slow effects.*
- Negate freedom of movement or other magical bonuses on the target that would allow them to escape a grapple.*
- Apply a dimensional anchor effect to the monk's grapple.*
- Grapple incorporeal creatures.
- Dispel/negate polymorph effects on a melee target, including supernatural ones.*
- Gain the effects of Iron Body.*


*The starred abilities are a bit trickier to translate as they rely on the ki pool, a shared resource unique to PF monks. This controls how often these abilities can be used in a day. The 3.5 monk has no equivalent, so you will have to either port it over or brew something.

[Waker]

Have you looked at the Pathfinder Monk? Specifically, the Tetori archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/tetori), which is focused on grappling.

I dunno, I think going Flowing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) Monk of the Sacred Mountain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-sacred-mountain) would make a better representative of Sumo.

Whoa, Deja vu.

[Psyren]

You may be right - I was thinking more the colloquial definition of sumo (i.e. "oriental-themed overweight wrestler") than going for maximum authenticity in the style.

[Waker]

You may be right - I was thinking more the colloquial definition of sumo (i.e. "oriental-themed overweight wrestler") than going for maximum authenticity in the style.

Nothing wrong with that. Even if I enjoy watching Sumo wrestling, the first image that usually pops into my head when I hear the term is E. Honda from Streetfighter. So there are different ways to interpret a Sumo.

[gurgleflep]

All of these are good suggestions, but... how would they work in 3.5?

Also, Walker: If you like sumos in games, you ought to play Tekken at some point. It's upsetting knowing that they didn't put EITHER into Tekken vs Streetfighter :smallfrown:

[Waker]

All of these are good suggestions, but... how would they work in 3.5?

Also, Waker: If you like sumos in games, you ought to play Tekken at some point. It's upsetting knowing that they didn't put EITHER into Tekken vs Streetfighter :smallfrown:

Well, let's see what kind of changes you would need to make when backporting to 3.5.
Monk of the Sacred Mountain
Iron Monk-Change Toughness to Improved Toughness. Natural Armor is fine.
Bastion Stance- No change in mechanics required.
Iron Limb Defense- Replace CMD with "bonus on checks against bull rush, trip..." Cut out mention of Ki.
Admantine Monk-Cut out mention of Ki.
Vow of Silence- Change CMD to "bonus on checks against bull rush, trip...". Change skills to Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search and Listen.

Flowing Monk
Bonus Feats- Need to replace feats available. Would require too much digging to find good replacements.
Redirection- Reposition doesn't exist in 3.5, so replace with Bull rush but specify that you do not need to move in a straight line.
Unbalancing Counter-Fine as is.
Flowing Dodge-Fine as is.
Elusive Target-Fine as is.
Volley Spell-Replace Ki, maybe give it limited usage like 1/day?

As for videogames, I find myself playing them less nowadays. Also when I mentioned liking Sumo, I meant watching actual matches.

[gurgleflep]

Well, let's see what kind of changes you would need to make when backporting to 3.5.
Monk of the Sacred Mountain
Iron Monk-Change Toughness to Improved Toughness. Natural Armor is fine.
Bastion Stance- No change in mechanics required.
Iron Limb Defense- Replace CMD with "bonus on checks against bull rush, trip..." Cut out mention of Ki.
Admantine Monk-Cut out mention of Ki.
Vow of Silence- Change CMD to "bonus on checks against bull rush, trip...". Change skills to Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search and Listen.

Flowing Monk
Bonus Feats- Need to replace feats available. Would require too much digging to find good replacements.
Redirection- Reposition doesn't exist in 3.5, so replace with Bull rush but specify that you do not need to move in a straight line.
Unbalancing Counter-Fine as is.
Flowing Dodge-Fine as is.
Elusive Target-Fine as is.
Volley Spell-Replace Ki, maybe give it limited usage like 1/day?

As for videogames, I find myself playing them less nowadays. Also when I mentioned liking Sumo, I meant watching actual matches.

Sorry for the typo! When your hands are as large as mine, those tend to happen frequently :smallredface: I normally catch them though :smallfrown:

That all seems pretty straightforward, thank you :smallbiggrin:

I know you were talking about actual matches, but I figured I'd throw in the game tidbit. What channels do they appear on? I'm tired of the UFC and MMA bullarkey.

[Waker]

Sorry for the typo! When your hands are as large as mine, those tend to happen frequently :smallredface: I normally catch them though :smallfrown:

That all seems pretty straightforward, thank you :smallbiggrin:

I know you were talking about actual matches, but I figured I'd throw in the game tidbit. What channels do they appear on? I'm tired of the UFC and MMA bullarkey.

Wasn't actually mad about the typo, I just frequently see it. The only time I get annoyed by it is when I have to do a google search for a post of mine and I see a string of unrelated "Walker in the Wastes" and the like.
The changes are simple for the most part. The biggest hurdle will be the change in bonus feats. I will leave that one up to you as I said, since I have no interest in wading through the hundreds of feats between the various 3.5 books.
No idea on where to watch Sumo matches. Haven't actually caught one in a few years. I think I used to watch them on ESPN 2 though.

[gurgleflep]

Wasn't actually mad about the typo, I just frequently see it. The only time I get annoyed by it is when I have to do a google search for a post of mine and I see a string of unrelated "Walker in the Wastes" and the like.
The changes are simple for the most part. The biggest hurdle will be the change in bonus feats. I will leave that one up to you as I said, since I have no interest in wading through the hundreds of feats between the various 3.5 books.
No idea on where to watch Sumo matches. Haven't actually caught one in a few years. I think I used to watch them on ESPN 2 though.

Either way, I would like to apologize for it - for me and anybody else who's made the typo.

I can do the feats myself, so that doesn't bother me. It'll give me something to do on a long car ride tomorrow other than get annoyed by children and listen to music.

Okay, thank you. If nothing else, I'll just fight my dad, that counts right? :smallbiggrin:

[Waker]

Either way, I would like to apologize for it - for me and anybody else who's made the typo.

I can do the feats myself, so that doesn't bother me. It'll give me something to do on a long car ride tomorrow other than get annoyed by children and listen to music.

Okay, thank you. If nothing else, I'll just fight my dad, that counts right? :smallbiggrin:

Fighting your dad only counts if you remember to put on your mawashi and set up the dohyo. Don't forget to spread salt though, lest evil spirits tamper with the match.

[Psyren]

All of these are good suggestions, but... how would they work in 3.5?


As I said with Tetori, you would either need to bring in the ki pool somehow or simply work out x/day or x/encounter uses for the ki pool stuff (starred in my post.) Or if you're going for authenticity go with Waker's suggestion.

I don't really know how you'd translate a ki pool to 3.5 except by simply bringing it in wholesale. Maybe give them the CA Ninja's ki pool as a class feature and use that or something.

[Waker]

I don't really know how you'd translate a ki pool to 3.5 except by simply bringing it in wholesale. Maybe give them the CA Ninja's ki pool as a class feature and use that or something.

Stealing the Ninja Ki Pool or making uses X/day both work.

[gurgleflep]

I think I'll steal the ninja's ki pool, the x/day sounds easy but I'd over-do it.

Edit: Thank you both for all the help :smallsmile: