[3.5] Quaggoths - A Night Below minor spoilers

[Keld Denar]

So, I'm running "A Night Below", and my party is at the Monsters at War section of the 2nd book. In it, there are a bunch of Quaggoths (not really a spoiler, I don't think). The book mentions a Quaggoth Thonot being a leader. The booklet says that Thonots are psionic, and has rules for converting from psionic to magic by just making him a cleric. But I don't like that. I want to keep him psionic, because that is just plain old cool. I have psionic mind flayers, afterall, why not a psionic Thonot? I'm a little torn on what to do with him, however.

I found 3.5 stats for Quaggoths in Drow of the Underdark, but they are pretty much 1-directional. MOAR BARBARIAN. I don't mind having my Quaggoth Jarl being a Barbarian, but I want my Thonot to be psionic something. My first thought was to have the Jarl be a PsyWar and the Thonot be a Psion, but Quaggoths seem to have a racial Int penalty. Now I'm thinking of having my Jarl be a Barbarian (probably 3-4) just like DotU suggests and having my Thonot be a PsyWar, probably level 4-5 on top of his 3 RHD for a CR7-8 critter. I might even be able to squeak in a level or two of DSP's Cerebral Rager from Hyperconsious which works well with Quaggoth's racial rage.

Anyone here an expert on old Quaggoth lore and have any better suggestions?

[JadePhoenix]

What about the phrenic template? Quaggoths have some racial hit dice, don't they?

[Amiria]

Sadly no suggestions, as I have never done much with Psionics. But I offer you the secret handshake of those who dare to run the monster that is Night Below in 3.5. :smallcool:

We are still at it, ... on and off ... since several years (haven't played it now for more than a year), but we are about to resume the campaign either this or next week.

I have the group also in the 2nd book. The last thing that they did was to SLAY THE SHADOW DRAGON and shortly thereafter those mega-reclusive, mystical, subterranean elves snatched away the elven party wizard.

[Essence_of_War]

Are you porting A Night Below into 3.5 yourself, or are you using some other standard conversion?

[Keld Denar]

I found the best thing in 3.5 is simply to math out the experience according to the encounter calculator on d20srd.org, and then HALF it. I've already discussed it with my players, and they are ok with it. Otherwise, I'm afraid that they will either hit level 12 (one is already level 8) before they even get to the City of the Glass Pool or they will miss out on some really neat locations. I do feel like I need to add in a little more impetus to explore, however, as my party is becoming more and more convinced that Jenneleth is dead and gone. I have some ideas.

As far as my Quaggoths go, I'm thinking that Phrenic is not a bad idea. I can advance my Quaggoth by RHD then, and maybe bump him a size because he is supposed to be a brute of a warleader. I just need to give him more HP because my party has a Duskblade with a penchance for rolling crits with his glaive and I don't want my poor Thonot to be a 1-hit wonder. He needs to be up somewhere in the 80-90 HP range and my base CR3 Quaggoth only has 30 pre-rage. I do want to tailor the PLA list a bit though, swapping out some PsyWar powers for the Psion powers.

Eh, maybe I'll just go PsyWar. He doesn't need a lot of PP, since he'll only be in one battle. Then I can Link Power to Hustle and get a couple extra buffs off while the CR3s are absorbing spells and glaive hits.

EDIT: I'm porting it myself. I'm eyeballing most of it. I'm pretty good with 3.5 and can usually make up some decent stats on my own for the most part. I do like to plan out some encounters a little more precisely.

[Essence_of_War]

Fair enough!

I'd be interested in reading a campaign log, or at least a summary/rundown when you finish! :smallsmile:

[Keld Denar]

In other news...I'm thinking of changing the shadow dragon to a deep dragon (from DotU). Negative levels are double unfun, especially stacked on top of a FREAKING DRAGON.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Ardents are Wisdom based and Wilder's are charisma based and both thematically fit a mostly Barbarian race better than Psion. They also feature fewer powers known and stronger chassis than Psion making them a better class for random NPC's.

[Essence_of_War]

In other news...I'm thinking of changing the shadow dragon to a deep dragon (from DotU). Negative levels are double unfun, especially stacked on top of a FREAKING DRAGON.

Yeah...seems like a good call to me.

Unprepared fights with shadow dragons sound like a recipe for disaster. :smalltongue:

[Keld Denar]

Behold the creation that I hath wrought!

Quaggoth Thonot Psychic Warrior 4
Medium Humanoid
Size: Medium
HD: 8d8+32 (72 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft
AC: 16 (+1 dex, +5 natural)
BAB/Grab: +7/+13
Attack: Claw +14 (1d4+7)/ +15 Stone Greataxe
Full Attack: 2 Claws +14 (1d4+7) Bite +9 (1d6+3)/ +15/+10 Stone Greataxe +9 Bite
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
Special Attacks: Rage 1/day
Special Qualities: Darkvision 120’, Light Sensativity, Immune to Fear and Poison
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +7
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Concentration +7 Hide +12, Listen +4, Move Silent +12, Spot +8
Feats: DiehardB, Power Attack, Psionic Talent, Practiced Manifester, Extend Power, Improved Toughness
CR: 7
Powers Known (19 PP)
1st Inertial Armor, Force Screen, Expansion
2nd Psionic Lion’s Charge

Possessions: +1 Stone Greataxe


Quaggoth Thonot Psychic Warrior 4 (buffed + raging)
Large Humanoid
Size: Large
HD: 8d8+48 (88 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 ft
AC: 24 (+5 natural, +6 Armor, +4 Shield, -1 Size)
BAB/Grab: +7/+18
Attack: Claw +16 (1d6+10)/+17 Stone Greataxe (3d6+16)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +16 (1d6+10) Bite +11 (1d8+5)/+17/+12 Stone Greataxe (3d6+16) Bite +11 (1d8+5)
Space/Reach: 10’/10’
Special Attacks: Rage 1/day
Special Qualities: Darkvision 120’, Light Sensativity, Immune to Fear and Poison
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +9
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 11, Con 20, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills: Concentration +9 Hide +12, Listen +4, Move Silent +12, Spot +8
Feats: DiehardB, Power Attack, Psionic Talent, Practiced Manifester, Extend Power, Improved Toughness
CR: 7
Powers Known (19 PP, ML 8)
1st Inertial Armor, Force Screen, Expansion
2nd Psionic Lion’s Charge

Possessions: +1 Stone Greataxe

Buff routine is a 7 point Force Screen (quickened) with a 1 point Expansion. Next round is PLC and engage in melee!


I'm still a bit fuzzy on gear. He's pretty savage, so I'm not keen to give him much. I was thinking of maybe adding another +1 equivalent to his greataxe, but I'm not sure what would really go well on there. Maybe +1 Manifester just so that he actually has enough PP to manifest Psionic Lion's Charge more than once.

Speaking of which, considering changing PLC to Hustle, just because. It's a little more useful when maneuvering around a pack of raging Quaggoths and not quite as deadly. Just a thought.

[Essence_of_War]

I don't know how optimized your players are (or even what ECL they are!) but I do know that that full attack routine off of a PLC looks like it could be pretty scary and pulp/splatter someone with little warning.

[Keld Denar]

The dwarven duskblade has like, 90 HP, and he is one level away from getting Vampiric Touch which, when channeled, will give him a ridiculous amount of temp HP. He also has a decent AC. As long as I don't crit him, I don't think it'll drop him in one round.

Most of the party is level 7, with the sorceress being level 8 (DM's girlfriend template means she hasn't died...yet). They are fighting the hooked horrors ATM, and will probably encounter the specter and the rakshasa (a tough fight) next game session, so they will probably level before they go back. The Quaggoths are an optional fight anyway, especially if the party appeases them with many many many hooked horror claws. If they do fight, then there is a very good chance that the Thonot will spend the entire encounter stuck in the sorceress' web spell, despite his strength, and that plus the Kelgore's Grave Mist means if he does get out, he'll most likely be exhausted after dropping out of rage.

Web is so OP in the underdark...seriously.

[Essence_of_War]

Web is so OP in the underdark...seriously.


...These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points or else the web collapses upon itself and disappears...

It's so hard to find diametric anchor points when you're underground crawling through tunnels :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Essence_of_War
I'd be interested in reading a campaign log, or at least a summary/rundown when you finish!

Seconding the call for a campaign journal. I have a soft spot for quaggoths, and now I'm curious to see what happens next.


Originally Posted by Keld Denar
I'm still a bit fuzzy on gear.

So are the quaggoths. :smalltongue:

In Monsters of Faerûn, at least, quaggoths consider the use of any weapon beside their own claws to be "using magic," regardless of whether it has actual enchantments or if it's just a battered thighbone.


Originally Posted by Keld Denar
He's pretty savage, so I'm not keen to give him much.

In that case, I'd suggest the +1 Manifester instead of additional enchantments. Quaggoths in Faerûn tend to distrust artificial weapons as overly sophisticated and potentially unreliable, not at all true to the spirit of their savage souls. Think Jayne on Osiris when he was banging the sonic rifle against the door handle.

:smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

I'm keeping it pretty Greyhawky, not that the party has even ventured out of Harrenshire (well, they are pretty far from Harrenshire now, headed southeast nearly linearly, just over a thousand feet underground). Still, I have Greyhawk gods, Greyhawk calendar, Greyhawk lore, and there have been a few sagely contacts with Greyhawk city itself (via Tauster). So in reality, its pretty generic.

My girlfriend is actually keeping one of those little black and white composition notebooks with records of everything, almost down to the blow-by-blow fight descriptions. I might consider transcribing some of it. It's a lot to type. We'll see.