What to do with useless domains?

[karkus]

Domain spells and domain powers can often times be nearly-useless, so I was wondering if there were any balanced buy-offs to use for such abilities.

I think that there were one or two rulings in Complete Divine in which you lose one domain power of your choice, but gain another ability, but I don't remember if it was any good, or if there were any such symmetries with granted spells.

The only thing that I could think of for spells would be a Cleric's ability to channel spells into spontaneous Cure or Inflict spells, but I don't even know if that works... :smallsigh:

[Valwyn]

The Divine Restoration ACF from Dungeonscape lets you trade the granted power of a domain for the ability to spontaneously cast Lesser Restoration, Restoration, and Greater Restoration. You still have to pay for the diamonds, though.

[Ashram]

You could always cast Substitute Domain and get a more useful domain, if your deity has one.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Domain spells and domain powers can often times be nearly-useless, so I was wondering if there were any balanced buy-offs to use for such abilities.

I think that there were one or two rulings in Complete Divine in which you lose one domain power of your choice, but gain another ability, but I don't remember if it was any good, or if there were any such symmetries with granted spells.

The only thing that I could think of for spells would be a Cleric's ability to channel spells into spontaneous Cure or Inflict spells, but I don't even know if that works... :smallsigh:

Complete Champion has a level 2 spell that lasts one DAY per level and lets you completely swap a domain you have -- granted powers and spells - for another domain in your deity's portfolio.

It's especially nice for when a prestige class or cloistered cleric (I like knowledge domain, but you only really need to have it for buying up knowledge skills at level-up) gives you free domains that suck, to trade them up for something great.

[shadow_archmagi]

Domain spells and domain powers can often times be nearly-useless, so I was wondering if there were any balanced buy-offs to use for such abilities.


Trading something bad for something better would not be a balanced trade. Trading something bad for something bad wouldn't solve your problem of having something useless.

While domain abilities I can see being useless, I'm curious as to how you end up with worthless domain spells. You only prepare one spell per level from your domains, which means a cleric with two domains has two options at every level. Most gods come with a handful of domains- Surely one could just pick two that have decent spells at different levels?

[karkus]

Trading something bad for something better would not be a balanced trade. Trading something bad for something bad wouldn't solve your problem of having something useless.

While domain abilities I can see being useless, I'm curious as to how you end up with worthless domain spells. You only prepare one spell per level from your domains, which means a cleric with two domains has two options at every level. Most gods come with a handful of domains- Surely one could just pick two that have decent spells at different levels?

1) Spending a feat to exchange bad for good IS balanced, though (well, kinda. It's optimizing without necessarily min/maxing out a character).

2) That was what I thought before, but I seem to always have a habit of picking domains whose *ahem* not-as-spectacular spells share the same levels.

Like so:

1. Bad spell 1. Good spell
2. Good spell 2. Bad spell
3. Good spell 3. Good spell
4. Bad spell 4. Bad spell

Levels 1 and 2 both have one bad spell each, but the other domain has a good one to offset this. Level 3 has only good spells, so it's only a matter of personal preference. Level 4, however, grants a good spell from neither domain; thus, my conundrum with near-useless spells.

[Waker]

Well, it depends on the domain, but in Compete Champion you can trade a Domain for a Devotion feat.

[LtPowers]

Levels 1 and 2 both have one bad spell each, but the other domain has a good one to offset this. Level 3 has only good spells, so it's only a matter of personal preference. Level 4, however, grants a good spell from neither domain; thus, my conundrum with near-useless spells.

Prepare a lower-level spell in the higher-level slot, perhaps with a metamagic feat.


Powers &8^]

[tyckspoon]

Prepare a lower-level spell in the higher-level slot, perhaps with a metamagic feat.


Powers &8^]

That. Level 4 has 2 bad spells? Put an Extended Level 3 Good Spell in there.

[nedz]

Take the Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF from PH2 p37 which allows you to spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains from any slot and also fill your domain slots with curing spells.

In the example above you could prepare a Cure Critical in your 4th level slot and be able to cast all of your spells from one domain spontaneously; so obviously you load up your domain slots with the 'good' spells from the other domain.

[karkus]

Take the Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF from PH2 p37 which allows you to spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains from any slot and also fill your domain slots with curing spells.

LtPowers, thank you so much. The fact that you could do that went entirely over my head and into my yard.

And nedz, I'm not entirely clear on this, but are you implying that you can use a domain slot for spontaneous spells? One of my biggest questions is whether or not any Cleric can do that; i.e. "Do I have to spend a feat and/or use third-party rules, or is this all Core? :smallconfused: "

[tyckspoon]

LtPowers, thank you so much. The fact that you could do that went entirely over my head and into my yard.

And nedz, I'm not entirely clear on this, but are you implying that you can use a domain slot for spontaneous spells? One of my biggest questions is whether or not any Cleric can do that; i.e. "Do I have to spend a feat and/or use third-party rules, or is this all Core? :smallconfused: "

Normal operation:
You cast whatever is prepared in your slots, whether it's your Domain slot or your normal slots. You can spontaneously convert to Cure or Inflict spells as appropriate to your alignment.

Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF:
You no longer convert to Cure/Inflict spells. Instead you can convert any of your normal slots to a Domain spell. In addition, you can prepare Cure/Inflict spells (again as appropriate to your alignment) in your Domain Slots.

Example: You have the Air and Animal Domains. You have Spontaneous Domain casting for the Air domain. Your Domain slot at level 1 could be filled with any of Obscuring Mist, Calm Animals, or Cure Light Wounds. You may spontaneously convert any of your normal spell slots into Obscuring Mist. You may *not* spontaneously convert to Cure Light Wounds any more.

(You can also get different methods of spontaneous casting from the Domain Spontaneity feat in Complete Divine and Faiths of Eberron or the Spontaneous Domains feat in Complete Champion. These are superior methods, IMO, but they require more character resources than just taking an ACF.)

[WhatBigTeeth]

And nedz, I'm not entirely clear on this, but are you implying that you can use a domain slot for spontaneous spells?
Strike that. Reverse it. The ACF lets a Cleric spontaneously cast domain spells from regular slots.

One of my biggest questions is whether or not any Cleric can do that; i.e. "Do I have to spend a feat and/or use third-party rules, or is this all Core? :smallconfused: "
None of the above. It's a specific ACF that a cleric needs to choose to take. No feats involved, no third party rules, and based in a non-core splatbook (Player's Handbook 2).

[karkus]

The Divine Restoration ACF from Dungeonscape lets you trade the granted power of a domain for the ability to spontaneously cast Lesser Restoration, Restoration, and Greater Restoration. You still have to pay for the diamonds, though.

Diamonds? What diamonds? As far as I remember:

Lesser Restoration: (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lesser_restoration) Doesn't cost a thing.

Restoration: (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Restoration) Costs maybe 100 gps worth of incense.

Greater Restoration: (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Greater_restoration) Costs 500 XP.

Okay, so maybe the XP cost is a bit too harsh, but the other two barely cost anything. In fact, that last one saves you an entire level or more, so be grateful it's only a few hundred XP! :smallbiggrin: