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Someonelse
2013-05-23, 03:26 PM
I wrote a spell. My DM has approved it, but I'm still not sure if I'm satisfied with all of it.

- [ ] Summon Warrior I
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Pal 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Kord's great hall is full of the brave warriors of old who have
been drinking and feasting and singing in Kord's hall for
centuries, these ancient warriors often long for the thrill of
battle and Kord is glad to indulge them. The supplicant calls
upon Kord to grant them assistance, Kord sends one or more of
these ancient warriors to fight for freedom and justice.

They are not technically ghosts, they are petitioners given
physical form for a brief time.
The Warrior(s) appears where you designate and act immediately,
on your turn. They attack your opponents to the best of their
ability. If you can communicate with the warrior (they speak
common and celestial), you can direct it not to attack, to attack
particular enemies, or to perform other actions. They are not
laborers and are quick to remind you if you forget. If the
summoner commands them to do something demeaning, not befitting a
warrior or anything against their alignment they will refuse and
the spell will end immediately. Commands they will obey include
attack, scout, guard, escort, regroup, flank and intimidate; they
will not obey any command that does not fall somewhere within
this spectrum.

Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot
support them. These warriors are always Lv1 Human Warriors, all
ability scores are 10 and they have 5 hit points each. These
warriors most often fight with Kord's favored weapon, the
Greatsword, some prefer other weapons though. The Summoner
determines the warriors' armament at the time of casting, to
determine armament at random when summoning, roll 1d4;
1-2: Swordsman: heavy crossbow, 20 crossbow bolts, greatsword and
breastplate,
3: Shieldman/Bowman: shortbow, 20 arrows, longsword, heavy wooden
shield and studded leather,
4: Bowman/Spearman: longbow, 20 arrows, longspear, short sword
and chainmail

When the spell ends the warriors vanish, as do their equipment,
any arrows they fired disappear when the spell ends. When a
warrior is killed he disappears along with all his equipment,
including any arrows he fired.


Summoned Warrior of Kord
Medium Human Petitioner (Celestial)
Hit Dice: 1d8 (5 hp)
Initiative: - (Summoned warriors act on the summoner's turn)
Speed: 30ft. - 20ft (depending on armament)
Armor Class: AC15, T10, FF15
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+1
Attack: +2 Melee, +2 Ranged (within 30ft)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Smite Evil,
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Resistance 5 to Acid, Cold &
Electricity, SR 6,
Saves: Fort 2, Ref 0, Will 0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +4, Jump +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (main melee weapon), Point Blank Shot
Alignment: Always Chaotic Good
Level Adjustment: +2

This warrior of old looks much he did when he fought across the
battlefields of centuries past, now he appears as an idealized
celestial version of himself wearing the same kind of armor and
wielding the same weapons he carried in life. Each of them wears
a holy symbol of Kord.

COMBAT
These warriors follow orders, as long as those orders are in line
with the kinds of things they would do anyway, like fight
enemies, escort someone or guard something. When entering into
battle they always lead with their Smite Evil attack, regardless
of the alignment of their opponent.
Smite Evil (Su): 1/day, +1 damage to evil

- [ ] Summon Warrior II
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Pal 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 1d3 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior III
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Pal 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 1d4 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior IV
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Pal 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 1d6 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior V
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Brd 5, Clr 5, Pal 5
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 1d8 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior VI
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Clr 6,
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 2d6 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior VII
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Clr 7
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 2d8 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior VIII
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Clr 8,
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 4d6 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.
- [ ] Summon Warrior IX
Conjuration (Summoning, Chaotic & Good) [see text]
Level: Clr 9,
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: 4d8 summoned warriors
Duration: 1 round/level or 1 hour/level (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

As Summon Warrior I except where indicated.

I feel like a 9th level spell should summon more than an average of 16 warriors, but I'm not sure how many is too many and how useful that would really be. My first thought was to level up the warriors for higher level summonings but I'm not sure what levels those should be.

Frathe
2013-05-23, 03:27 PM
This seems like it belongs in Homebrew.

Xervous
2013-05-23, 03:29 PM
In line with the other summoning spells, have the higher level summoning spells summoner better warriors while also providing the option to produce more of a lower tier of warrior.

Invader
2013-05-23, 03:47 PM
This seems like it belongs in Homebrew.

This right here ^

Invader
2013-05-23, 03:59 PM
But since it's here, it doesn't scale very well. By the time you can cast 9th level spells no caster is going to waste a spell slot to summon some 1st level warriors. The second problem is there's to much bookkeeping. You have to roll to see how many warriors you summon then roll to see what gear they have, on top of that you'll have to have the mechanics wrote down for all armor and weapon types because you'll never know which warriors you're getting.

Youre better off following the summon monster or summon nature's ally formula for summoning spells.

Namfuak
2013-05-23, 04:05 PM
Unfortunately, by the time you can cast 3rd level spells summoning a few 5 HP warriors is barely going to be a blip on the enemy's radar. What should probably happen is that the spell summons a more powerful warrior. I think that this will still be outpaced by summon monster/summon nature's ally at the 4th level version and up, but if the warrior had at least spell level *1.5 hit dice and perhaps some scaling inherent bonuses to strength he would be able to contribute.

Hamste
2013-05-23, 04:43 PM
I might have missed it but where does it say the difference between 1 round/level and 1 hour/level in the text? Also you might want to include that they will not do anything that is appears to be obviously evil (as defined by the DM) such as attacking a group of unarmed commoners (you mentioned only about them not being labourers). Also maybe give them construct traits (similar to barbarians from the horn of Valhalla) to make them more resistant to other spell casters.

Someonelse
2013-05-23, 07:15 PM
In line with the other summoning spells, have the higher level summoning spells summoner better warriors while also providing the option to produce more of a lower tier of warrior.


I might have missed it but where does it say the difference between 1 round/level and 1 hour/level in the text? Also you might want to include that they will not do anything that is appears to be obviously evil (as defined by the DM) such as attacking a group of unarmed commoners (you mentioned only about them not being labourers). Also maybe give them construct traits (similar to barbarians from the horn of Valhalla) to make them more resistant to other spell casters.

sorry, I should have mentioned that. We use a house rule where summoned creatures can remain for 1/hour per level as long as they are not in combat.

Thanks everyone for your input

karkus
2013-05-23, 08:29 PM
How 'bout this: instead of increasing the number of low-level warriors that are summoned, increase the power of them.

At 17th level, ~18 5-HP Warriors could not accomplish anything useful that I could think of. I wouldn't accept this ability even if it were free, let alone if it costed a 9th-level spell slot! :smalleek:

Maybe change the 2nd-level spell to summon a Fighter instead, and then increase the strength of him/her/it beyond that. 1st-level version of it is pretty solid, though; I noticed that it has a lot of room for improvements, in that if one were ever to be Epic-level with these spells, an Epic version could be created that summons an Avatar of Kord himself (/itself?)!

Otherwise a pretty cool idea, especially for the combat-impaired Bard :smallsmile:

Vaynor
2013-05-23, 09:06 PM
The Red Towel: Moved to Homebrew Design.

Fizban
2013-05-24, 01:40 AM
I ran some comparisons a while back and determined that a non-elite (13/12/11/10/9/8), LA+0 warrior with NPC gear is roughly worth a summon of 1/2 his level. Directly comparing what the warrior could achieve to the standard summons found that while the warrior would have better AC with heavy armor and shield, it's pretty much impossible for them to keep up with 4th and 5th spell level summons in damage: they just don't have enough strength, size, or multiple natural weapons to compete with tigers and bears. So you can actually just have the spell summon a warrior at the same level as you are (when you get the spell anyway), or put another way, add two warrior levels for each spell level. Then make three or four gear sets for each level, using NPC gear as a guide. The usual rule for summoning multiples from a lower level list would available on the higher level spells.

For the duration, I quite like the idea that you could summon them for guard duty and have them stick around until the fight happens, but that should be mentioned in the main spell for everyone else. The use of the spell becomes versatility in armaments, increased intelligence, and long duration, compared to a normal summon's use of higher damage, exotic movement modes, and special abilities.

wayfare
2013-05-25, 10:14 AM
The warriors do need to get stronger, which means statting up at least 9 different warriors. But don't feel bad, because you gave yourself an easy way to do this -- this spell draws folks from Kord, so you just need to make some medium armor wearing greatsword fighters who also have back-up weapons. I'm sure Kord's Signature weapon is statted up in some book, so just give them that primary weapon, but toned down. Then give them two secondary weapons, like a greatbow and a 2 throwing axes of comperable power. Now you effectively have 3 different kinds of fighters to call upon, all for the price of one.

Also, I'd make these guys Fighters instead of warriors. Just avoid ubercharger or lockdown builds that the party fighter/barbarian/pally might want to play. These guys should be weapon focus/spec/improved crit/gwf/gws/twf guys -- unoptimal, but powerful as a unit.

yougi
2013-05-25, 04:21 PM
I personally think that either all Warriors should be the same, or that they shouldn't be randomly selected, as this leads to lots of die rolls. I also agree that the higher levels shouldn't be just an increase of the number of 1st level warriors.

Then again, having a Swordsman, an Archer and a Spearman for each spell level means keeping the stats for 27 different critter, and that is a bit much. I also agree with the idea that you should allow the choice between one fighter and multiple fighters of the lower level. Maybe by working around that, you could make less than 27 soldiers and make each spell a different set up, e.g. SW1 gives you 1 LV1 spearman, while SW2 gives you either 1 LV2 Archer, or 1d3 LV1 Spearman; SW3 gives you either 1 LV3 Swordsman, or 1d3 LV2 Archers, or 1 LV2 Archer and 1d3 LV1 Spearman. By doing that, you only end up with 9 critters to stat (maybe a bit more if you want more versatility at some specific levels).

Also, regarding what level to make them:

Summon Monster 1 gives you monsters with CR around 1/3 and 1/2
SM2: CR1
SM3: CR2-3
SM4: CR3-4
SM5: CR3-5
SM6: CR5-7
SM7: CR7-9
SM8: CR7-10
SM9: CR10-12

Now, if you plan on making them, as Wayfare described, low-op fighters with Weapon spec.-level feats, I'd recommend something like:

SW1: Ftr1
SW2: Ftr2
SW3: Ftr3
SW4: Ftr4
SW5: Ftr5
SW6: Ftr7
SW7: Ftr9
SW8: Ftr11
SW9: Ftr13

Of course, the Archers could be spell-less rangers, and the Swordsmen could be Barbarians. I'd try to stay away from ToB classes and Spell-users, to limit the bookkeeping. Spellcasters already have enough to track without managing a second spell list.

You could also make the Warriors after SW4 be large, which is always helpful, in which case you can take the fighters from SW6 and up down a level.

Thugorp
2013-05-29, 11:58 PM
I like this, though some combo. of more power and more soldiers would be good. My main thing though: PLEASE EDIT TO TELL WHEN IT IS 1round/level, AND WHEN IT IS 1hour/level!

Henlein_Kosh
2013-05-30, 01:18 AM
just a thought on how to scale theese spells:

Have the individual spells summon stronger warriors, but have each spell sommon more based on caster level. So that Summon Warrior IX might sommon 1 10th level warrior per 5 caster levels or something similar.

Note that I did not do the math in my exampel, it might be way off from balanced.