self destructing goblins

[samuraijaques]

Hey all,

i saw a feat in savage species the other day called final strike. it allows a character that is reduced to -10 hit points or less explode in a violent fashion and damage everyone within 60ft of him for a respectable amount of damage (1d6 per hit die plus another 1d6 per 2 hit die if using fire). I want to build a character or characters around this feat and i want him/them to be goblins.

so i have some interesting questions.

1. if a character with regeneration is reduced to less than 10 hit points he would still trigger this feat correct? the text reads "...when your hit points drop to -10 or lower" but it also references being killed.

2. what is the easiest way to get the elemental subtype to qualify for this feat? which element would be the best in your opinion for the iconic "goblin grenade"?

3. if regeneration doesn't work with this how would you go about getting a large amount of goblins with this feat as followers that would be willing to sacrifice themselves for you? thrallherd?

4. if regeneration does work what would be the best classes to take to capitalize on the nature of this ability. what classes reward reckless fighting the most.

looking forward to hearing from you

cheers.

[TuggyNE]

1. if a character with regeneration is reduced to less than 10 hit points he would still trigger this feat correct? the text reads "...when your hit points drop to -10 or lower" but it also references being killed.

The only way to hit -10 without special magic is to die. Regeneration turns some/most/all lethal damage into non-lethal, which is tracked separately, and does not reduce your HP. (It's counted up instead of down, and if your non-lethal damage exceeds your current HP, you fall unconscious.) So a troll or similar will not hit -10, ever, unless you hit it with a [death] effect, sufficient acid or fire damage to kill it, sufficient acid or fire damage to force a massive damage save that it then fails, or similar. No amount of ordinary swording will trigger that.

[Zombulian]

Hey all,

i saw a feat in savage species the other day called final strike. it allows a character that is reduced to -10 hit points or less explode in a violent fashion and damage everyone within 60ft of him for a respectable amount of damage (1d6 per hit die plus another 1d6 per 2 hit die if using fire). I want to build a character or characters around this feat and i want him/them to be goblins.

so i have some interesting questions.

1. if a character with regeneration is reduced to less than 10 hit points he would still trigger this feat correct? the text reads "...when your hit points drop to -10 or lower" but it also references being killed.

2. what is the easiest way to get the elemental subtype to qualify for this feat? which element would be the best in your opinion for the iconic "goblin grenade"?

3. if regeneration doesn't work with this how would you go about getting a large amount of goblins with this feat as followers that would be willing to sacrifice themselves for you? thrallherd?

4. if regeneration does work what would be the best classes to take to capitalize on the nature of this ability. what classes reward reckless fighting the most.

looking forward to hearing from you

cheers.

I'm not sure that these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#generalTraitsOfAirRace s) would actually give the subtype, but it's worth a look.

Also, regular old Leadership would probably work just fine if you don't want to invest levels, otherwise yes, Thrallherd is pretty dang good at that.

[BowStreetRunner]

1. if a character with regeneration is reduced to less than 10 hit points he would still trigger this feat correct? the text reads "...when your hit points drop to -10 or lower" but it also references being killed.

Normally, when a creature with regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) is dealt damage, it receives Non-lethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage). Since non-lethal damage doesn't reduce a creature's hit points, it is impossible for such a creature to be reduced to less than -10 hit points this way. The creature merely falls unconscious is the non-lethal damage exceeds its current hit points.

In any circumstance where a creature with regeneration is dealt lethal damage that is not converted to non-lethal damage (such as a troll that takes fire damage), being reduced to less than -10 hit points kills it just like anything else, and the effect would be triggered normally.

[Invader]

personally, fire seems like the most likely element for your run of the mill goblin.

[Arael666]

After I played "Orcs Must Die" I've been wanting to introduce the "suicide bomber kobold" to my campain.

But I was more inclined to use enchantment spells and a barrel of alchemist's fire strapped to their backs.

[Seer_of_Heart]

I'm not sure that these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#generalTraitsOfAirRace s) would actually give the subtype, but it's worth a look.

Also, regular old Leadership would probably work just fine if you don't want to invest levels, otherwise yes, Thrallherd is pretty dang good at that.
It specifically says it won't give the subtype. :smallsigh:

[angry_bear]

Well, if you're the DM just say screw the rules I have fiat.

If you're a player doing this, maybe make a summoner instead? It won't be as awesome as exploding goblins, but it'd still be neat to see tiny fire elementals doing a lemming charge towards the enemy...

[ShadowFireLance]

Wasn't there a Thread about continued made Goblin explosions powering a Machine?

[Mithril Leaf]

A combination of delay death and beastland ferocity should do it. Same thing that gets the omnificer off the ground.

[Frosty]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4832&type=cardhttp://8e8460c4912582c4e519-11fcbfd88ed5b90cfb46edba899033c9.r65.cf1.rackcdn.c om/sales/cardscans/MAG_M12/GoblinGrenade.jpg

[Zombulian]

It specifically says it won't give the subtype. :smallsigh:

Oh? Must've missed that :/

[Spuddles]

PF lets you go to -con score.

Combine some way to take 1 damage and heal 1 damage so you spontaneously do ALL the damage when bouncing between -9 and -10.

[TuggyNE]

PF lets you go to -con score.

Combine some way to take 1 damage and heal 1 damage so you spontaneously do ALL the damage when bouncing between -9 and -10.

That right there is the cheesiest thing I've seen all week. And I took a peek at the ExFighter and Stutter build threads just today.

[samuraijaques]

wow, great replies all. thank you.

so i am trying to build a character that can reliably pull this off. I want a goblin that jumps on people and blows up. suicide goblin that comes back from the dead.

How can i make this character? feel free to submit any builds.

[TuggyNE]

so i am trying to build a character that can reliably pull this off. I want a goblin that jumps on people and blows up. suicide goblin that comes back from the dead.

You're almost certainly going to have to use spells of some sort, probably with contingency or Craft Contingent Spell to trigger them. Maybe just revivify?

[Miranius]

As for the fire-subtype, ithink the spell is called "heart of fire" from sandstorm. it`s equivalent, for the cold subtype, is in frostburn (sadly after the errata you can not benefit from both at the same time).
About suicide-bombers, use custom-items for storing (similar to the gloves of storing) which can have a contingency-effect to be teleported out before the actual explosion hurts them (make them a construct to qualify for the "creature" type contingency needs).

[angry_bear]

There's always Ritual of the Elements in Savage Species, but the conditions for that are a bit much. You need a level 9 cleric with the energy or element as his domain, and to spend 36,000 gold and 14,40 xp per casting of the ritual.

[GutterFace]

can you shape/bind the souldmeld for rageclaws....i thought it let you get to -12 hp or some nonsense while staying conscious.

[drack]

Wasn't there a Thread about continued made Goblin explosions powering a Machine?

Yes... yes there was. I deleted it from old subscription yesterday. :smallwink:

Anywho gobblins are fun, but the gobblin version of this i easiest to pull off as GM. Go cleric, make sure tehre's a sorcerer/wizard with bonding/magic circle. Get two elemental domains, and be evil/neutral with evil deity/TN, TN deity, and evil inclination. Have wizard summon small elementals with it, and necromentals (elementals that are just undead enough to count towards your undead commanding instead of elemental commanding). Conrads, you now have a handful of walking bombs. This depends largely on GM allowing you to summon them with the feat, which I'd think is relatively unlikely.

Alternatively you can nab the two corpsecrafting feats, and make all your undeads have the negative energy version of this.

Alternatively you could gate in and contract ECL 4 folks with bobblin, elemental subtype (Manual of the planes template) and the feat.

Alternatively you could try to hire them from your nearest merc-corp... er I mean private security firm. (Yes I know, but I couldn't resist the classic)

If you need more tell me.

[BowStreetRunner]

Unearthed Arcana has a race of Fire Hobgoblins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#fireHobgoblins) on page 17 that would qualify for the Final Strike feat.

Edit: Nevermind, apparently on page 16 it states their types and subtypes do not change. However, Half-Elemental template from Manual of the Planes page 188 may accomplish this. Also, Element Creatures from page 191 in the same book should work. Make sure you look at the 3.5 update, as this was a 3.0 book when originally printed.

[Uncle Pine]

Well, I thought about an acquatic acidborn goblin, but acidborn can only be applied to animals, magical beasts, plants and vermins, so no.

However, you can be a barbarian/frenzied berserk goblin:
1 - take the Troll Blooded feat (you gain regeneration 1, fire and acid deals normal damage to you);
2 - take the Blazing Berserk feat (you gain the fire subtype while raging);
3 - take the Frozen Berserk feat (you gain the cold subtype while raging, stacks with Blazing Berserk giving you immunity to both fire and cold damage);
4 - take Martial Study a couple of time or dip Warblade 1 to get Iron Heart Surge (especially useful if you are a frenzied berserk or you really hate the sun for whatever reason*);
5 - take Leadership or be sure that someone in your party can cast some good AoE spells that deal acid damage.
* Actually Troll Blooded makes you fatigued while exposed to sunlight, so feel free to end the sun.

This gives you both fire and cold subtype (so 1d6/HD + 1d6 fire/2HD + 1d6 piercing/2HD damage on every Final Blow while raging). Also, damage can't kill you during frenzy. If one of your pal is a wizard or a sorcerer with Energy Substitution (or a kineticist psion), you can ask them to occasionally shoot you dead with an acid fireball or an equivalent power. Otherwise, make sure your cohort can do it.

You should also have a look at energy burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBurst.htm): it's a nice power if you only plan to turn yourself into a bomb, and doesn't require to fall at -10.

[Fable Wright]

A combination of delay death and beastland ferocity should do it. Same thing that gets the omnificer off the ground.
Nah... two spells on goblins? You can't have bog-standard goblins mooks blow up en mass, then.

can you shape/bind the souldmeld for rageclaws....i thought it let you get to -12 hp or some nonsense while staying conscious.
This was my first thought too, and I still think it's a pretty good one. It lets you go to -13 before level 5, -16 before level 10, and so on. For getting the subtype, a 15th level Druid with a Thought Bottle who knows Mantle of the Fiery Spirit and has a good supply of Chaos Flasks could give you an army of [Fire] Goblins.